Is there not much dedicated interest in online debate unless there's fighting?

[FalloutJack]

Snip

It doesn't have to be gaming culture. People are obsessive about their own thing. Doesn't even have to be niche. Popular things get obsessed over too. For games, consoles, etc., go ahead and fill in sports, music, books, shows and so on. It happens. Fanhood over things goes back for as long as entertainment has. Hell, Shakespeare had people who loved him and people who hated him, and endless debates on the matter. Fairly-certain some people wanted him dead, though, so awkward there, but the point of the matter is...

Unless somebody in all these arguments is actually planning to do something overt to affect the subject matter they are obsessing over, their debate over what is better, if it's good or not, and any other disagreement with people who disagree with them is just an act of being disagreeable. People who have chosen, have chosen. These wars do not usually change other people, certainly not to a great extent. It isn't the people on the other side of the line that woo anyone who's entrenched and ready for battle. Only the makers of the product can truly entice en masse. It's their job and goal to do so. (This excludes ringers that pay people to shout nice things about their product.)

The masses do not overtly affect the masses who oppose them to a great extent, not when they are decidedly against the thing that the first masses stand for. This is how wars of the very real kind start, ideaologies and ways of life clash and people die. The argument one just has alot less bloodshed, but happens for roughly the same reasons, because people want to be right. Unfortunately, debates like this are not really solved by the masses. The masses can only change what their side has by trying to get them to understand what they want in their product. 'The Enemy' can't tell your side how to run their product into the ground and expect that to work.

Somehow, this post about arguments became about business and economics. I apologize for that.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I think when it becomes an echo chamber no one has much to say. It just turns into this:
Until people get bored and leave. If they don't disagree, there is not much to discuss.

 

[DrOswald]

The vast majority of discussion about video games really only lends itself to shallow disagreement over opinions. Even bigger issues like Freemium or DLC are usually just opinions. Now, that is not necessarily a problem. The problem is that people leap to offense at the first sign of disagreement. "I think a game you like sucks, this is why" is not a personal insult, no matter how much people like to think it is.

Now, on deeper issues, say Gamergate, the reason calm discussion breaks down is typically because no one wants a calm discussion. Gamergate, on both sides, was not about reason or figuring out the truth or morals or anything like that. It was about jumping to conclusions, labeling the other side as "those assholes" and doing everything you could to punish them. It was a whirlwind of hatred and assholes, the result of a culture of entitlement, overreaction, assumed guilt, and moral outrage cultivated by over a decade of shitty journalistic practices. And it finally backfired.

As much as it pains me to say it is thought by many gamers (not most, but enough people that are loud enough to ruin it for everyone else) that the correct way to respond to a perceived offence is to jump to conclusions, assume guilt, and call for blood. The only "positive" thing I can say is that this is not a gamer specific problem. This is a human problem, especially on the internet.

 

[Recusant]

Unless somebody in all these arguments is actually planning to do something overt to affect the subject matter they are obsessing over, their debate over what is better, if it's good or not, and any other disagreement with people who disagree with them is just an act of being disagreeable. People who have chosen, have chosen. These wars do not usually change other people, certainly not to a great extent. It isn't the people on the other side of the line that woo anyone who's entrenched and ready for battle. Only the makers of the product can truly entice en masse. It's their job and goal to do so. (This excludes ringers that pay people to shout nice things about their product.)

I think you're oversimplifying; that, or we're not talking about quite the same thing. Two zealots screaming at one another aren't going to change the other's mind, true. But passion doesn't prevent a person from making well-reasoned arguments- and while that may not sway a dedicated supporter of the opposition, it may do so for a more moderate person- and even the hardliners may come to a better understanding of what the first side has/is/offers. Granted, that assumes a higher degree of reason and civility than we often see, but burning the Lots with the Sodomites is just pessimistic.

Further, even if it accomplishes nothing by way of persuading or informing, I'd argue that these discussions (even if they do evolve into swears and insults) serve a cathartic purpose; better the energy gets vented in a safe, semicontrolled way, no?

 

[visiblenoise]

Not everyone can sustain a meaningful discussion over any topic, but everyone can make fun of people who are bitching at each other in a forum.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

I'm sure we're talking about the same thing, buuut we don't see the internet the same way. (Apologies for the delay, BTW. There's a board glitch thing with the ads. I told the tech group.) I'M a moderate, understanding, and verbosely-conversational guy. There are not enough of me to go around! We don't see enough reasonable arguments on the internet. You can call it a stereotype if you like, but remember that all stereotypes exist as a demonstration of a real problem that people have noticed happening repeatedly, like a meme. The Escapist itself is fairly high-quality, cream (or creme) of the crop in gaming communities, but it is not without a great deal of pointless arguments. And by pointless, I also mean 'not fun', so I'm not even including funny off-topic stuff in that.

As for venting, I got slightly-better ways to cool down: Video games.