Is this guy serious?

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Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/cana/index.htm

In this essay, he is making a case against the nuclear atom that Bohr and Rutherford proposed. I haven't read it all the way through because I couldn't take it seriously.

What are your thoughts, guys?
 

black lincon

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Aug 21, 2008
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Wait, so this guy is saying there is no atom? I'm continuously amazed at the stupidity of my species.
 

wewontdie11

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May 28, 2008
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I really usually don't like to say this, but tl;dr. If you've read it could you give like a brief summary or something in the OP?

Edit: Or is he just saying there is no atom pretty much?
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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I believe he makes the case that electrons aren't part of the atom, and the atom is the size of the nucleus, with some magical force separating it from other atoms (At exactly the same distance as in Bohr's work).
 

InvisibleSeal

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May 3, 2009
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Hmmm... either he is just trying to be overly controversial and isn't being serious, or he seriously believes what he is writing.

I didn't read all of it (waaaaaaaay too long), but he seems to have taken the results of famous experiments completely different to everyone else.

Then again, at least he is thinking for himself, and there might be something in what he is saying (even though I personally think he is extraordinarily stupid).
 

wewontdie11

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Redingold said:
I believe he makes the case that electrons aren't part of the atom, and the atom is the size of the nucleus, with some magical force separating it from other atoms (At exactly the same distance as in Bohr's work).
I see...

Does he state at any point what electricity might be in his view?
 

manaman

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wewontdie11 said:
Redingold said:
I believe he makes the case that electrons aren't part of the atom, and the atom is the size of the nucleus, with some magical force separating it from other atoms (At exactly the same distance as in Bohr's work).
I see...

Does he state at any point what electricity might be in his view?
Bigger obvious problems would be fission, fusion, and isotopes.
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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wewontdie11 said:
Redingold said:
I believe he makes the case that electrons aren't part of the atom, and the atom is the size of the nucleus, with some magical force separating it from other atoms (At exactly the same distance as in Bohr's work).
I see...

Does he state at any point what electricity might be in his view?
Yes, I think he states that electrons can still come from atoms (as photons do), but aren't part of them (as photons aren't).
 

resultsmayvary

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Apr 30, 2009
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Science was always one of my favorite subject, I was never good enough at Math to really go anywhere with it though. So I'm far from an expert on this, but my non-expert opinion is: This guy was high when he wrote this.
 

The Shade

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xmetatr0nx said:
Well with the amount of effort placed into that many words, he even has sections! Im guessing hes serious, nothing i find on the internet surprises me anymore. Oh well, hes just one drop in the ocean of ignorance on the net.
Since when is this kind of ignorance constrained the the Interwebz?

The whole world is a sea of ignorance - just on the Internet, it's all written down.
 

Biek

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Mar 5, 2008
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This is the kind of thing that makes me see science as another religion. People can claim all kinds of crap and theres always some who support it or not.
 

Unreliable

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Jul 14, 2009
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There is a shit load of junk science on the internet.
This actually happens to be a fairly well written article, with at fair amount of knowledge on the subject matter, but nicely polished junk science is still junk science.

Biek said:
This is the kind of thing that makes me see science as another religion. People can claim all kinds of crap and theres always some who support it or not.
Im guessing you havent taken many science courses.

The peer review process isnt some elaborate conspiracy designed to keep ideas out, it is a filtering process so that qualified physicists (and other scientists) can focus of the high level debates within the scientific community.

I know science is sort of elitist, but just because people agree with some crackpot, doesnt give him merit, unless those are people who have high standing in the scientific community (like PhD physicists).

Its like the evolution debate: 99.9% of scientists totally agree with evolution (but there is a high level debate in the subject, such as when genetic drift occurs, debated by PhD biologists), but because the (American) public is 50% - 50%, people think that both sides have merit, when in fact, one side is retarded. ('babies come from the womb' and 'babies come from the stork' are not competing schools of thought)
 

megalomania

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'If statements of this kind are indicative of the general thinking of the profession, it is no wonder that the physicists have been unable to break away from the pattern of 1911 atomic theory. An enormous amount of experimental work in recent years has established just the opposite; it has been demonstrated beyond question that a specific kind of atom may have a wide range of ?atomic volumes,? if we use this term to designate the volume determined by the inter-atomic distance, as in the foregoing quotation. Furthermore, this recent work shows that instead of ?shrinking hardly at all? under pressure, all solid substances undergo very substantial decreases in volume under high pressures. Cesium, for example, loses nearly two thirds of its original volume under 100,000 atm., potassium more than half. Most substances are much less compressible than these alkali metals, but if sufficient pressure is applied they behave similarly. Metals such as iron, copper, zinc, silver, cadmium, and tin have been reduced to the neighborhood of half their original volumes by pressures around 3 to 4 million atmospheres, and there is no indication that we are approaching any kind of a limit even at the extreme upper end of the experimental pressure range.'

Thats the first piece of 'science' in his entire article (about 4000 words in) and it is complete crap. He's also an idiot because I really doubt Rutherford had access to anything that could generate 100000 atm, never mind 3 or 4 million.

There is also a pretty well established equation linking the mechanical work vs compression thing that works out the energy required to squash it in terms of the increased coulombic repulsion between the nuclei, I believe.

He is, ironically, doing the same thing he accuses other scientists of: using one piece of evidence as support of his theory and ignoring the counter argument.
 

redsoxfantom

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Jul 22, 2009
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After going through Rutherford's experiments in determining the structure of the nucleus, Mr. Larson procedes to say:

But here we encounter an example of a surprisingly prevalent feature of present-day physical science: a curious failure to explore possible alternatives.
Well, gee. Scientists say that airplanes fly because of Bernoulli's principle. But I propose a startling alternative! Fairies hold them up! It all makes sense, because everyone knows that fairies are invisible, so we can't see them. I need 2 million dollars in grant money to study this phenomenon.

In all seriousness, if we spent all our time trying to find alternative theories to every accepted scientific theory, we'd still be sitting in caves trying to decide if rocks are edible. "Theories" like this only waste time and money.

As a final note, doesn't the fact that nuclear weapons exist prove that scientists understand the structure of atoms quite well enough?