Is this Legal/Ethical?

[ExaltedK9]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

Not everything is black and white. I really think that 3 minutes of minor violation does not equal 2 years of suspension from driving. Theres a time to crack thw whip, and theres a time to let things slide. This was one of those times.

 

[zama174]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

/thread

so, umm, why do you question it? He should have just left earlier. You need to be prepared for this stuff when you have such a responsibility.

What if there was a traffic jam? Or some such unexpected thing happened that left him stuck? While yes, it is technically legal, it just down right pisses me the fuck off. The kid was three minutes late! There is no damn reason why he should have his licensed suspend for 2 YEARS! Honestly, the punishment should fit the crime, and really I don't see a crime being committed.. Why couldn't this cop be patrolling neighborhoods where people fly down em at 50 MPH or patrol the highway. Its cops like these that give cops bad names. The ones who abuse there powers, or just are to damn lazy to do there jobs.

 

[zama174]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

Not everything is black and white. I really think that 3 minutes of minor violation does not equal 2 years of suspension from driving. Theres a time to crack thw whip, and theres a time to let things slide. This was one of those times.

It's not the job of police to pick and choose how and when they enforce the law.

The officer did his job.

Period.

Oh really? A lot of cops let people off with warnings simply because they know that the crime really doesn't deserve the punishments which we have. Something like this is simply wrong, and stupid. Cops always pick and chose when to enforce the law.

 

[Death on Trapezoids]

Depends on where you live. You might check further into the whole "curfew" thing. Where I live, while there is a curfew from midnight to 5:00 AM for drivers of that age, it is expressly stated that the curfew doesn't apply when going between school, work, or HOME or when accompanied by an appropriate person.

From what you have described, I think 2 years is a little harsh. Can you predict getting stuck behind a train or in a clogged intersection? 3 minutes is really not a lot of time when it comes to time margins. Especially with the 5 minute differences between everyone's clocks and watches.

 

[ExaltedK9]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

Not everything is black and white. I really think that 3 minutes of minor violation does not equal 2 years of suspension from driving. Theres a time to crack thw whip, and theres a time to let things slide. This was one of those times.

It's not the job of police to pick and choose how and when they enforce the law.

The officer did his job.

Period.

My father was a cop. My grandfather was a cop. I plan to be a cop someday. I'm familiar with the law, and cops can exercise discretion in instances like these.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

there is a 5 mph give on speed limits, so it is not exactly like going 3 minutes over the speed limit.

just to clear up a common misconception, the "5 mph window" (at least in most places) is not actually a law, but rather a matter of practicality. basically, since it takes an officer so damn long to write a ticket, a ticket for a violation of <5 mph simply isn't worth his time, when he can easily wait 30 seconds to bag someone for a 10 mph violation. in every locality i am aware of, you CAN be ticketed for a violation of even 1 mph over the limit, but it doesn't happen much because the fine is too low to be worth the officer's/the judge's/the city's time.

 

[zama174]

SNIP

The driver did the wrong thing.

The law dictates a certain punishment.

The police officer, whose job it is to enforce the law, did just that.

There is nothing wrong here.

Simple.

Maybe not by a legal standpoint, but by an ethical one it is. Hell I walk my dogs a lot past curfew. They need to pee, so I do it. I think if a cop fined me for it because I am letting my dog do its business in my own yard, would be pretty stupid, and ethically questionable. How can this not raise questions about the ethical standing of the world when cops spend more time tailing a kid because he was driving home and took three to many minutes to get there instead of patrolling the highways for drunk, or reckless drivers? You know, people who might actually hurt, or kill someone?

 

[Hollock]

What a dick.
I wonder what our resident cop Ace_of_Something and his sassy partner would have to say in a situation like this.

 

[kitsunefather]

there is a 5 mph give on speed limits, so it is not exactly like going 3 minutes over the speed limit.

just to clear up a common misconception, the "5 mph window" (at least in most places) is not actually a law, but rather a matter of practicality. basically, since it takes an officer so damn long to write a ticket, a ticket for a violation of <5 mph simply isn't worth his time, when he can easily wait 30 seconds to bag someone for a 10 mph violation. in every locality i am aware of, you CAN be ticketed for a violation of even 1 mph over the limit, but it doesn't happen much because the fine is too low to be worth the officer's/the judge's/the city's time.

This in part. Its also a "common sense guideline" that assumes a person's speedometer may read slightly skewed, and that if the driver fights it it really isn't worth the time or man hours. I think this kind of case would call for a certain amount of allowance, given that he was actually at his house. A warning, basically, which officers can choose to do rather than ticket.

Unless this wasn't his first encounter with curfew breaking, or had a history of hi-jinks that would lead the officer to assume this wasn't a one-time accident of timing and traffic.

Also, it depends on the state you are in. Some states have a "3 turns or 3 miles" rule for officers, that if they don't turn on the lights before they've followed someone for 3 miles, or around 3 turns, than they are behaving in a harassing fashion.

 

[Seddi]

What the hell? 4-6 months I could understand, but two fucking years?

Dick move if you ask me, even if it's legal.

^
There's often a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. This would be an excellent example of that.

As someone else already stated, three minutes is so slight a difference that it could be debated by the accuracy of a clock, or even if at what time the instant his car stopped in that driveway. Meanwhile, the officer could've spent that time on the lookout for a real threat, like a drunk driver.

 

[ExaltedK9]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

Not everything is black and white. I really think that 3 minutes of minor violation does not equal 2 years of suspension from driving. Theres a time to crack thw whip, and theres a time to let things slide. This was one of those times.

It's not the job of police to pick and choose how and when they enforce the law.

The officer did his job.

Period.

My father was a cop. My grandfather was a cop. I plan to be a cop someday. I'm familiar with the law, and cops can exercise discretion in instances like these.

It doesn't matter how you think or feel.

There is no issue of ethics or illegal activity on the part of the officer.

He enforced the law on someone breaking the law.

Get over it.

Actually, this is a perspective-seeking thread, so I believe my opinions WERE welcome here. And I don't remember saying anything about the officer doing something illegal, but yea, unethical if you ask me.

Lawful discretion is a policy, not something I "think or feel". An officer has a right to exercise it, and I feel that he should have in this case.

You disagree. I don't really care, I just hope its not exercised on you the next time you're pulled over for inevitably doing something stupid.

 

[Mad World]

Wow... I am very surprised at all of the people siding with the cop.

The cop may have been technically justified to do that he did, but I consider it to be rather ridiculous. The kid was even on his way home, so I consider it to be a jerk thing to do.

And two years? That's just too strict for three minutes past midnight. That's too strict for even an hour over, in my opinion.

That police officer must have either been really bored or in a really bad mood.

I'd like to note that I definitely don't think that what the cop did was illegal. I just don't think that it was really necessary. I guess that it's really about the cop's intentions; is he just looking to exercise his power because he can (which many cops enjoy far too much)? Or does he think that he is doing the right thing?

Really, I think that he was just being overzealous.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's within the boundaries of the law.

It's harsh, but it's their discretion.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Cop was in the right.

Neighbor was in the wrong.

/thread

so, umm, why do you question it? He should have just left earlier. You need to be prepared for this stuff when you have such a responsibility.

It is not "fair" per se, but it is the law.

So my neighbor, who is 16, a new driver was driving home on a Friday night. He arrived in his driveway at 12:03 to find that a cop had tailed him all the way back to his house. As the curfew was midnight he was technically violating it, so the cops suspended his license until he turned 18. thats just under 2 years for 3 minutes past curfew. So i was wondering, are cops allowed to do this. And if they are, do you agree with it. Explain.

*Also, i would like to note that this isnt a hypothetical, it happened next door to me, i mean the house DIRECTLY next to mine.

It's legal, there's nothing really unethical about it either. Honestly, your neighbor should have left sooner and planned to be back with time to spare. Just because you have a reasonable expectation of getting away with your crimes doesn't excuse them when you make a slight error.

If the cop tailed him home and asked to see his vehicle inspection, found it expired, and ticketed him, I'd think the same thing.

I'm sorry, but this kind of thing sickens me.

This turns the law from sonething meaningful into an excuse to abuse people for trivialities, and in my opinion undermines confidence and respect for the institutions of law.

Laws as a concept exists to serve a purpose, not as an entity unto itself that should be tolerated just because.

It genuinely drives me nuts that people support these kind of things.

 

[likalaruku]

Ther'e scurfew fr a reason. You think you can push you luck by being a little past it. If you get away with it, you try being later & later. The police are just putting a foot down on it. Although the length of the suspension is harsh; reminds me of the #1 thing I hate about America; punishment in access....rediculously long jail sentences for misdemenors (while real criminals get off on technicalities) & the over-the-top amounts of money people can sue for, often the rich suing the poor.

 

[DarthFennec]

Yeah, that's not cool. Although the cop had every right to do that, that's not cool at all. 2 years for three minutes? I know for a fact that there were probably much more important and constructive things that cop could have been doing with his time then following some teenager around, waiting for him to stay out past curfew. That's ridiculous.

 

[Choppaduel]

Take it to court, get reduced by a year.

 

[Kortney]

Police officers are given discretion specifically for moments like this. It's a real shame this police officer acted like a dick. I'd protest it if this happened to me. It might not work, but it's worth a try because 3 minutes could come down to the accuracy of the clock and the police have a civil responsibility to act in accordance with fairness and equity. If you take this to court, I'd expect you'd get a lesser suspension. I really do.

The driver broke the law.

The police officer did nothing wrong.

If you cannot understand that, best we stop the conversation here, least it turn into an argument.

For someone who was once arguing in favour of incest, claiming that the legal side of the issue was wrong - you are remarkably brainwashed into thinking the law is always right. Cognitive dissonance? Just a bit!

 

[sagacious]

The fuck? enforced curfew?

Beyond the fact that the mere idea of a curfew-by-law makes me cringe, 3 minutes?! what if his watch was 3 minutes slow?! what if he got a flat tire? what if he had to stop and go to the bathroom on the way home?! hellllloooo! this is retarded. your neighbor literally did nothing wrong.

that's my two cents anyway.

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

SNIP

The driver broke the law.

The police officer did nothing wrong.

If you cannot understand that, best we stop the conversation here, least it turn into an argument.

Talking in lines like this

Isn't helping anyone

And frankly it's stupid

Also, are you the guy who wrote RoboCop's standard procedure?