Is this "piracy"?

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evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...no-3d-printing-of-our-alien-super-8-cubes.ars

Summary: This guy makes detailed 3D models of things he sees in movies, then sends them off to a 3D Printer to fabricate them and sells them. When he did this for the cubes from the movie Super 8, he got a Cease & Desist letter from Paramount.

Linked from the Ars Technica article is this one: http://www.publicknowledge.org/blog/3d-printing-expands-how-you-should-think-abou which explains that copyright does not automatically attach to physical objects and props used in movies. It does admit however that the cubes may be one case where it does.

My own thoughts: There are a few comparisons we could make here. Some kosher, some not so much. You could compare it to copying a song. Even granting that you perform it yourself, this is not legal if you sell the copies, which Blatt is. Actually, it's still not legal even if you don't sell the copies. This is probably not a fair comparison though: Blatt's copying an item seen in a movie, not a whole movie. A more apt analogy would be copying say, a single riff, or just a single lyric, or even just the beat.

The main problem I think is that Paramount plans to license these things themselves. Otherwise, a claim of Fair Use could easily use the "What is the effect upon the value of the original version?" clause as a defense. Replicating the cube has no effect on the value of the original if the original has no value, which it wouldn't if it were not the basis of a design to be sold. Blatt's replica would obviously have no effect on the value of the movie itself (or perhaps a positive effect).

Another example along those lines would be OCRemix.org, the site Extra Credits gets most of its music from. The game tunes that artists remix and upload to the site are absolutely protected by copyright, but how many of them are going to be sold--separately from the game they belong to--by the company that owns them? Not many I'll wager. Ergo, the remixes have no effect on their value, thus fall under Fair Use quite easily.

Now to shift gears: in the world of game modding, it is illegal to rip models from games which do not explicitly state you can do this, and distributing a mod containing ripped models is a quick way to get yourself banned from reputable modding sites like the Nexus family of sites. However, if you painstakingly make a replica from scratch, this is perfectly kosher and legal (it helps that it's easily provable that you rolled your own). Actually, this mentality applies to pretty much everything. Do it yourself or get permission, period, is the rule.

Note the comments on the public knowledge article: one of them refers to a UK court case where someone was making replica Imperial stormtrooper helmets. The case is on appeal, but the defendant won the first round.

So yay or nay, and why? After writing this, I think I've decided that the way it ought to be is that there is no blanket yes or no answer as there is with music, games, or film, and each case deserves to be tried on its own merit.
 

Dragunai

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The theme tune to the TV show Peter gun has been ripped off in numerous songs. Just the main bass rift:

Original (bass line only!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ

Now The Strokes Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBUcGv41lVY

Just one example of the bass being used / recycled (an awesome one tbh)

but you get my point ^_^
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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evilneko said:
Is this "piracy"?
[HEADING=1]THIS IS SPARTA!!![/HEADING]

Seriously though, I wouldn't actually call it piracy. Copyrighting a shape that you could form in a mold or something is about as stupid as copyrighting the word "Edge". And YOU KNOW how well that turned out, right? (Answer: BADLY.)
 

Stall

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Apr 16, 2011
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This isn't piracy in the slightest. It might be some form of copyright infringement, but hardly, HARDLY piracy.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Sounds more like copyright infringement than piracy. He didn't steal anything, but he is using other people's copyrighted material to turn a profit. Of course some companies are going to have a problem with that.
 

aba1

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Mar 18, 2010
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ya its actually illegal to use other peoples origenal characters and steal there ideas so ya he could get sued
 

Jordi

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Jun 6, 2009
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Stall said:
This isn't piracy in the slightest. It might be some form of copyright infringement, but hardly, HARDLY piracy.
mjc0961 said:
Sounds more like copyright infringement than piracy. He didn't steal anything, but he is using other people's copyrighted material to turn a profit. Of course some companies are going to have a problem with that.
Can one of you guys maybe explain to me what the difference is between piracy and copyright infringement?
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Jordi said:
Stall said:
This isn't piracy in the slightest. It might be some form of copyright infringement, but hardly, HARDLY piracy.
mjc0961 said:
Sounds more like copyright infringement than piracy. He didn't steal anything, but he is using other people's copyrighted material to turn a profit. Of course some companies are going to have a problem with that.
Can one of you guys maybe explain to me what the difference is between piracy and copyright infringement?
The difference they are talking about is how piracy is taking an IP that belongs to someone else and distributing it without/against their permission. What is happening here is clearly not that.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
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ZiggyE said:
WOAH WOAH WOAH HOLD UP.

When did they invent 3D printers?
Back in the 90's, for big bad companies like Renault the car maker, but back in 2004 some guy got hold of one and instructed it to build its own parts, which he sent to someone else to build his own parts to send to someone else... basically they were instructing 3d printers to "print" themselves, it takes a while though.

here's a link to some new dude thats all like "my 3d printer is the bestest and shit"
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-news/3d_printing_building_up_hopes_of_revolutionising_engineering_1_3432805
 

Jordi

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bob1052 said:
Jordi said:
Stall said:
This isn't piracy in the slightest. It might be some form of copyright infringement, but hardly, HARDLY piracy.
mjc0961 said:
Sounds more like copyright infringement than piracy. He didn't steal anything, but he is using other people's copyrighted material to turn a profit. Of course some companies are going to have a problem with that.
Can one of you guys maybe explain to me what the difference is between piracy and copyright infringement?
The difference they are talking about is how piracy is taking an IP that belongs to someone else and distributing it without/against their permission. What is happening here is clearly not that.
As you probably know, it was a trick question because piracy and copyright infringement are the exact same thing. Theft on the other hand is different.
It is also not that clear to me that the case presented here is really that different from copyright infringement. I can definitely see how you could argue that it is, but I think it all comes down to whether an iconic(?) and fairly unique(?) item from a movie constitutes intellectual property.
 

Dr_Horrible

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Oct 24, 2010
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I don't see it as piracy as long as it's not being sold (EDIT: it seems like he is, I'm a little tired right now lol, but my point still stands) as movie merchandise. In fact, I think it's pretty cool... if I had any ability to make 3d models, I would definitely be doing (or at least want to do) what he is.
 

Stall

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Apr 16, 2011
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Jordi said:
Can one of you guys maybe explain to me what the difference is between piracy and copyright infringement?
Piracy is a type of copyright infringement. When you pirate something, you are infringing a copyright. HOWEVER, piracy is NOT the only way to infringe a copyright... there are bunches and bunches of ways to infringe on a copyright: piracy is just one way to do it.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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Hmm.

This thread has produced an unexpected result, revealing that potentially many people have a mental disconnect between "piracy" and "copyright infringement." I never expected this as it's quite clear they are the same thing. There's probably enough material there for its own discussion thread.

^ Ah, I see: piracy as a subset of infringement, referring only to the distribution, but not for example the creation, of infringing materials. A fine line indeed.

Dragunai said:
The theme tune to the TV show Peter gun has been ripped off in numerous songs. Just the main bass rift:

Original (bass line only!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ

Now The Strokes Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBUcGv41lVY

Just one example of the bass being used / recycled (an awesome one tbh)

but you get my point ^_^
Did The Strokes pay any royalties to the original composer or whoever holds the rights to the Peter Gunn theme?