Is this Pirating?

[Abomination]

Considering how you are not handing out copies to other people and especially not making a profit on the activity I would not call it piracy.

The letter of the law differs from nation to nation and some might define it as piracy in the literal sense but in according with the spirit of the law it would not be.

 

[zehydra]

it's piracy, but since you bought the game, who really cares?

Like others have said, you can still get in legal trouble though.

 

[Yopaz]

According to laws over here you're allowed to download things that you can prove valid ownership of. If I have a record that I want a digital copy of I can download that and either show a physical copy or the receipt to that album to prove that it's mine if someone comes knocking.

However you're downloading it using a torrent client meaning you're also uploading content. That's what makes it illegal, not the fact that you downloaded it. At least this is how I have been told the laws work here, I haven't checked so this might be incorrect or inaccurate.

 

[NLS]

If you were using some of the older TES games that were later released on Steam, and thus had both non-steam and Steam versions, I'd understand your problem. But all of Bethesda's later games are now natively released with Steamworks integrated, which means there's only one official version, and that's the Steam version.
The issue you're having is with the mods themselves, that for some reason will not work with Steam, in which case I find them highly suspicious.

 

[sanquin]

-sniiiip-

Meh, I don't get too much into the legal stuff really. All I know is you're allowed to make a home copy for 'backup', and it's not illegal to download pirated stuff. Only to share said pirated stuff. (Which technically, you're almost always doing with torrents since you're sharing while downloading, but still.)

 

[Batou667]

Salute Escapists!

Anyhow, I'll get straight to the point. I own and bought Skyrim and all its DLC (steam owned) however some mods have slight issues with Steam support and overall I didn't want to go through the headache of fixing that so I downloaded through torrent the game and the DLC I owned which is all of it. Then I happily installed the stuff I desired and it all works perfectly.

However, is this pirating? I do own the game itself so to say but you might also argue I only own a license available through steam and not the game per-se.

What are your thoughts on this particular kind of 'piracy'? This might also apply to, for example owning your old Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time cartridge but not owning a N64 anymore, so you DL a ROM. Is that pirating? You still own and have the cartridge. Where does one draw the line?

Thanks for all and any input!

Your second example, having a digital copy of a game you own, is AFAIK completely legal. You are allowed to have a digital backup of something you've already paid for.

Your first example, I don't really understand the technicalities of, but if you paid for all the content you're currently using, what's the problem?

 

[DoPo]

I'm almost amused at the piracy threads. When people go "Well, MORALLY, it isn't" what's next "Was I speeding" "Well, MORALLY you weren't speeding"? It's a legal thing not how one feels about it.

No, it's not piracy.
You already own a legitimate copy (or license) so which way you enjoy the game is irrelevant.

Actually, licenses are rarely that open. Usually they are a tad more restrictive, as in they give you the right to use the software through the medium it came through (more or less) - be it disks, Steam or something else. You are rarely given a blank license to get X in whatever way you please.

Technically it could be considered as making a backup.

No, not really. Technically, you are supposed to do the backup. Also, the backup is supposed to be...you know a backup - in case your original copy stops working, or is missing etc.

If you download a game you own but don't seed, how 'bout that?

As I said before, that's murky at best. And using torrents it's improbable.

Legally, yes, that is copyright infringement ("piracy") in most jurisdictions. This is because you have made a copy of the file without authorisation or license from the rightsholder. I'm surprised that so many people in this thread think that this isn't the case; it should be obvious that copyright infringement includes making a copy of something.

OK, while true, I just want to add something to illustrate how weird software laws are. Software licenses by definition do allow you to make copies. In fact you are required to. You would need to install the game which makes a copy of some files on your hard disk (assuming the software comes on removable media) and even then, when you launch it, you get a copy of other data in memory. Otherwise, the software cannot work.

As I said, weird.

Considering how you are not handing out copies to other people and especially not making a profit on the activity I would not call it piracy.

Actually, that's exactly how torrents work - you hand out copies to other people.

Your second example, having a digital copy of a game you own, is AFAIK completely legal. You are allowed to have a digital backup of something you've already paid for.

You are allowed to make a backup copy. But even that is not always the case - as I said, I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't allow it.

You already payed the asking price?

Yes? Then, nope, its not what id consider pirating

Oh...wait. Sorry, everybody I quoted - forget what I said. When you're wandering about something legally, just ask what Xdeser2 considers it to be.

Judge: So what are the charges?
Prosecution: Well, we found this forum post by Xdeser2 that states that he considers the defendant was wrong.

 

[Metzeten]

Well the definition of piracy (in these circumstances) is possessing software for which you don't own a relevant license.

You bought the game LICENSE only when you bought the game and dlc, where you magic up the 1's and 0's that make up the game data is entirely at your discretion.

Under law, provided you don't subsequently send the data you downloaded to anyone without the license, then you're golden.

Just, as you said you torrented it, make sure you have all outbound uploads turned off and blocked, or the only repercussions could be that you supplied material to pirates.

I would even go so far as to say that if you were challenged on it, the existance of the game on your steam list as a paid for item would go to exonerate you. You are entitled to make copies for personal use only, that is what is in end user license agreements, its the distribution and modification (which when it comes to a game with mod support is relevant only in a creation of a new game from the original material, IE plagiarism) being forbidden.

If you are really concerned about it, ask if you can get a non steam copy to bethesda tech support, obviously don't specify where, for the purposes of making mods work.


Though I have to say I've never encountered any problems using the steam version, unless you have to very frequently verify game cashe, as it has an addon folder...

 

[vun]

As I said before, that's murky at best. And using torrents it's improbable.

Anyone who's opened the options window of a torrent client should be able to restrict upload to nothing. This means you can download while not uploading anything.

 

[Abomination]

Considering how you are not handing out copies to other people and especially not making a profit on the activity I would not call it piracy.

Actually, that's exactly how torrents work - you hand out copies to other people.

It isn't EXACTLY how torrents work. It is entirely possible to download a program WITHOUT sharing it with other people via torrents.

To call a leech a distributor of copy-written media is disingenuous. The original SEEDER is the individual who is "effectively" handing out copies to other people.

It opens up another can of worms - what if the OP purchased a copied DVD of the game, therefore not collaterally seeding any information. This, in my opinion, is the piracy at its worst - someone is directly profiting by bypassing copyright law.

 

[zzkill]

If you download a game you own but don't seed, how 'bout that?

Depends on the laws of the country I guess. I think in Romania you are considered to be pirating only if you distribute the downloaded material, any megabyte of it. So, just downloading is fine, and I set my torrent client to not upload, so it is possible. Not nice to the community, not sharing that is, but if you are afraid of legal prosecution it is possible to stop your upload.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

You are allowed to make a backup copy. But even that is not always the case - as I said, I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't allow it.

Correct, you are not allowed to make the backup copy if the license agreement (which is a legally binding contract) stipulates you can not. And of course most of them do. And most of them are written in such a way you pretty much automatically agree with them by absentmindedly looking in their general direction, though I'm slightly exaggerating there.

But it still depends on where you are though. As I mentioned before, in the EU there is a regulation stating that making the backup copy can not be prevented by agreement and that supersedes anything Nintendo or any other company may say, but only in the EU and only under the provisions states by the regulation.

Also, yay to you for actually having researched what the law is, instead of, you know, stating what they think or feel it is/should be.

 

[Another]

At worst I'd say its morally grey.

But I haven't found a mod yet that didn't work with steam, as long as I turn off auto update and the steam overlay, so I'm not sure what the point is exactly.

 

[fenrizz]

No, it's not piracy.
You already own a legitimate copy (or license) so which way you enjoy the game is irrelevant.

Actually, licenses are rarely that open. Usually they are a tad more restrictive, as in they give you the right to use the software through the medium it came through (more or less) - be it disks, Steam or something else. You are rarely given a blank license to get X in whatever way you please.

Except for when the law in that country says otherwise.

In Norway you can legally any open any piece of software on the medium you choose.
The authorities tried to convict the person behind DeCSS (DVD decryption), and amongst the charges were illegally access to the DVD, i.e opened it on another medium and circumventing the copy control.

He was acquitted twice and the court upheld that once you buy a piece of software you may use the content on any medium and circumvent any DRM.

 

[The White Hunter]

What are your thoughts on this particular kind of 'piracy'? This might also apply to, for example owning your old Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time cartridge but not owning a N64 anymore, so you DL a ROM. Is that pirating? You still own and have the cartridge. Where does one draw the line?

Thanks for all and any input!

In the UK at least no, that's absolutely fine. Emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own a copy of the game, you own a licence to it it's a lovely little loophole in copyright law here.

BUt nah, if you paid for it thats fine, I'm yet to find mods steam dislikes though, that said I get most of mine for Skyrim via the workshop.

 

[DoPo]

As I said before, that's murky at best. And using torrents it's improbable.

Anyone who's opened the options window of a torrent client should be able to restrict upload to nothing. This means you can download while not uploading anything.

Spoiler: Indeed, you are correct - you can set the speed to 0

Indeed, you are correct - you can set the speed to 0

Well, technically you can do it, however, it's a breach of the torrent protocol and is achieved through cheating the whole system.

Considering how you are not handing out copies to other people and especially not making a profit on the activity I would not call it piracy.

Actually, that's exactly how torrents work - you hand out copies to other people.

It isn't EXACTLY how torrents work. It is entirely possible to download a program WITHOUT sharing it with other people via torrents.

To call a leech a distributor of copy-written media is disingenuous. The original SEEDER is the individual who is "effectively" handing out copies to other people.

Are you sure you know how torrents work? Because what you said makes no sense at all. A leecher is one who is currently downloading a torrent, but they are also uploading it to the current cluster of users they are assigned with at the same time. A seeder is one who is uploading. Informally, a "leeacher" would be one who has low sharing ratio, as in, they don't upload all of the data (or in other words, they just stop the transfer once done), while "seeders" are the people only uploading the data (so the ones that finished the download but continued the transfer). However, in practice (almost) everybody who is downloading, is also uploading at the same time. It's up to the tracker to classify these. Most do follow the informal convention when listing peers, but I've seen some that state, say, 1 seeder and 1 leecher but those are actually the same person.

But it still depends on where you are though.

I didn't think I had to put "may vary on the region" every time I said something. I did that once, it just got dull "X, but it depends on where you are, Y, but it depends on where you are, Z, but it depends on where you are" - I thought people actually got that part.

No, it's not piracy.
You already own a legitimate copy (or license) so which way you enjoy the game is irrelevant.

Actually, licenses are rarely that open. Usually they are a tad more restrictive, as in they give you the right to use the software through the medium it came through (more or less) - be it disks, Steam or something else. You are rarely given a blank license to get X in whatever way you please.

Except for when the law in that country says otherwise.

As above. Also I was talking about the license, not the local law. You said that the license allowed you to use the product however you wish, which is not actually the case.

 

[Xariat]

On top of that you downloaded it per torrent, which means you automatically upload it to other people too. Those people may have not bought the game or the DLCs.

However, with torrents you automatically upload as you download...at least all normal torrent clients do that. So you do take part in distributing the copy.

Actually, that's exactly how torrents work - you hand out copies to other people.

not entirely true, it is completely possible to download via torrents without uploading at the same time, you just have to configure the client.

OT: yes, technically speaking it is "pirating", but no, I wouldn't say you're doing anything wrong.

 

[Vegosiux]

Not a lawyer, so I'll just go about this from a "consumer" point of view.

Well it all depends on that nagging, eternal question, is it a product or a license? Publishers like to spin it to be whichever is more convenient to them at the given point, which is why we need to whack them with the Clue-bat 9001?[footnote]For more information call 1-500-GETACLUE[/footnote] now and then.

But basically, if it's a license, and you paid for such license, the EULA cannot force you to comply with anything that contradicts your local jurisdiction's legislation. For example, if the EULA had an entry "Upon installation of this game, you must shoot a puppy", you can click "I AGREE" without having to actually shoot a puppy. But you paid for your license, so getting a fresh copy is just renewing what you already paid for.

If it's a product, then what you've done is illegal, because if a product breaks, you either take it back for a refund or replacement, or buy a new one; you don't go and acquire a new one outside those channels.

So this is what it boils down to: Product or license?

 

[FFP2]

I wouldn't consider it pirating. Shit, I downloaded a copy of Final Fantasy X-2 because I played that game way too much and it was scratched beyond repair. So no, it's not pirating in my eyes. Unless you seeded it to others that may not have been in the same situation you were in.

 

[Brandon237]

Hmmm... So the fuck what if it is? I am not advocating conventional piracy by any means with this statement, so take it in context, m'kay?
That should explain everything, you paid for the licence, if you got into legal trouble after having paid for the licence and ensuring you didn't seed on the torrent, you know the people getting you into said legal trouble are fools with nothing better to do than harass a paying customer. What you did in no way affects their profits or anything, and you are using their product after having paid for it (As you should). It is digital information, you bought the licence, enjoy at your leisure, especially if you are anywhere with somewhat sane local laws.