Is this racist?

[maninahat]

So, my curiosity has been itching to anyone/everyone that posts random "is this racist" threads... why do you care? Not a clever quip mind you; I'm genuinely curious.

I started a similar thread, though I didn't phrase the title as a question. In my case, it was because it was a video game trailer, so it was relevant to the escapist, and I cared because, you know, racism is a problem.

That said, not many agreed with me. I reckon if I specifically avoided using the word "racist", my argument might have persuaded a lot more people. People are very tired of hearing about racism or sexism.

Or maybe you were just being overly sensitive and people called it as bullshit? Maybe you should consider that possibility as well, maybe something is wrong with you and not everyone else.

That's a possibility too, but judging from the responses, I doubt it.

I argue that it would have been racist to do the skit and white wash the characters. Your move "This is Racist!"-People.

See, that's the beauty of it, it can always be painted as racist if somebody wants. ALWAYS.

On balance, I'd say blacking up is probably the more racially insensitive option. I doubt anyone would have had a problem with white people singing Rhianna songs, even (dare I say) when they aren't masquerading as black people.

It's kinda racist. Everyone knows the baggage and the history behind black face performances, so it seems like a particularly poor decision on their part.

 

[maninahat]

Trying to blood black, but not being black = Racist?

Why do I always get the feeling its a bunch of white people who are more offended by this than anything? If a black person covered themselves in flour and said "Look at me, I'm white!" I don't see how anyone could be offended. If that same black person, without the flour, went and mimed having sex with a dog (I don't know any white stereotypes, bestiality will do) and said "Look at me, I'm white!" then perhaps I could see how people could be offended.

There have been racially insensitive movies about black men disguising themselves as white women, but the concept of a black man "whiting up" lacks a lot of the historical perspective that makes black face a problem. Black face was a way of laughing at those silly black people, and also a way of permitting whites to enjoy black entertainment, safe in the knowledge that they weren't giving credit to real black people. That was the case for a long time, and it really isn't something to be proud of. Which is why when someone black faces without addressing the obvious historical connection they are making, people are right to criticize it.

 

[Patrick Buck]

I would say it's more tasteless than racist. If they were implying all black people did this, then yeah, that set's the ol' raceomiter off, but if they were just acting out the Chris Brown/Rhianna thing, then that's just a bit tasteless I would say.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Would it be less funny if it was white people? Probably not, there are plenty of relevant white celebrity pairs that could have been the subject of this skit and I don't think it would lose much.

The use of blackface is a little bit racist because it was a way to avoid having to hire and appreciate black people in entertainment, so I think a little bit of baggage makes its way across. That said, they are white. What are they meant to do, wear signs with who they are acting as? Besides, I would hesitate to call what they have blackface.

 

[Daveman]

They live in an area where 97% of the population is white. I guess they're going to have to use make-up to portray a black character. It's not like they minstrelled up or anything they just put on a bit of brown body paint.

 

[kaizen2468]

Black face is pretty racist. The skit wasn't. Though it is in fairly poor taste.

 

[maninahat]

SNIP

Not all places have the same relationship with racism in regards to blacks. Even so, what little I've seen has little in common with Blackface as it is commonly known. Or are you going to tell me that you don't see a difference between this story and the following?

Because if you don't you should probably see a ophthalmologist.

The most obvious difference is that we don't have many Al Jolson apologists in this thread today*. But I guess that isn't what you're hinting towards. The logic seems to be that as long as you don't black up too much, then a little blacking up is fine. Fantastic. No. The historical context doesn't go away just because you select a lighter shade of shoe polish.




*[sub]Ironically, despite Jolson being used as a symbol for racism, the guy himself was actually doing an awful lot of favours for black progression. If anything, he symbolized the very beginnings of acceptance of black influences in entertainment. It goes to show just how bad times were, when this guy was championing black rights. Not that it makes it okay or anything.[/sub]

 

[krazykidd]

Look, I'm a minority. If someone wants to look "like" me, that's okay, as long as it is not done with the intent to say that looking "like" me, makes them worse people.

Lots of things can be considered racist that are just innocent jokes, acts, etc. My point being is, unless they were jumping around saying they were inferior to white people, no, it's not racist. And that's even if the black community (like there is a place were black people have meetings and decide what is/ is not racist >.> ) thinks it's racist. There is a difference between offending people, and being racist.

Although most of this is true . Some things like black face have become symboles . Racism , sexist , anti-semitism and other kind of -isms All have things that symbolise them .That has to be taken into account also . So yes that is racist .

Edit: also , remember , just because it doesn't offend YOU , doesn't mean it's not offensive to other people .

 

[AngloDoom]

-snip-

There have been racially insensitive movies about black men disguising themselves as white women, but the concept of a black man "whiting up" lacks a lot of the historical perspective that makes black face a problem. Black face was a way of laughing at those silly black people, and also a way of permitting whites to enjoy black entertainment, safe in the knowledge that they weren't giving credit to real black people. That was the case for a long time, and it really isn't something to be proud of. Which is why when someone black faces without addressing the obvious historical connection they are making, people are right to criticize it.

I agree that I didn't address the historical context at all in my post and you're right to point that out. Thankfully you said it in a courteous manner, so huzzah for good discussion.

I think the main reason I see this as not racist is because this satire is directed and individuals who happen to be black, rather than black people as a whole. We all agree this wouldn't have been as much of a problem or stirred uncomfortable feelings in many of us if the people who had played the parts were black themselves, but I'm going under the assumption that the people involved happened to be white and had no black actors involved, or else they would have used them. The 'blacking up' was an attempt to - poorly - imitate the characters involved and I see the poor make-up part of the silliness rather than a deliberate attempt to say the act had anything to do with the skin colour of the people involved.

While I certainly wouldn't 'black up' for acting on fear of being branded racist, I simply don't know enough to assume the people involved are damning black people as a whole rather than those involved in the satire. Since I've got my optimist head on today (coffee and sunshine have that affect on me) I'm going to say this is more 'ignorant' than 'racist'.

Of course, it's hard to really say anything is 'objectively' offensive, but my personal definition of racism comes under the belief that all individuals of a certain race have certain characteristics unique to that race, and solely as a result of being a part of that race. I don't think (again, 'think') that the actors involved are suggesting that the domestic violence was brought about as a result of the character's race, so I personally wouldn't call it racist.

 

[NoeL]

Holy fucking shit that was terrible.

I put my heart and soul into that production... T^T

Captcha: 'well isn't that special?'

I suppose you're right, Captcha. It IS special...

 

[maninahat]

SNIP

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Not at all. Allow me to use your own words:

Black face was a way of laughing at those silly black people, and also a way of permitting whites to enjoy black entertainment, safe in the knowledge that they weren't giving credit to real black people.

So, were they mocking or belittling black people or were they portraying 2 current performers in a case of abuse that has been long accepted into pop-culture? See, that's what you are failing to grasp, the skit isn't about them being black, they just happen to be black.

You are standing on the sidelines screaming "you can't make yourself look black because people belittled black people that way in a entirely different context!!!". Nobody aside from perhaps Chris Brown and Rhianna have any real reason to be offended. Those that are, like you, are offended on behalf of other people. In other words, you worry about what is supposedly racist and offensive waaaaaay too much. I'll give you a tip. If you want to avoid being racist you have to avoid both being a dick and special consideration to/of people based on their race.

To answer your question, they were mocking two current performers, but the method they used to mock them accidentally references racist old traditions.

As far as your concerned, its just some kids in black make up and that's the extent of it. This instance of white people mocking black musicians by putting on black make up and caricaturing their misbehavior, has no resemblance to what we used do in the old days, when white people used to mock black musicians by putting on black make up and caricature their misbehavior. Looking at it that way, I don't know how anyone could think they are similar. What you're doing is divorcing this event entirely from any cultural context, when racism and racial stereotypes are all about cultural context. Had these kids not put on black make up, their attempt to harmlessly mock a couple of celebrities would have been met without issue. It would have been as you said: a skit about a couple of people who happen to be black. But the black face is there, the resemblance is there, and that's why we're having this discussion.

And for your information, I am not offended. I rarely am when I see something racist, but as I keep having to make clear to people, I don't have to be offended by something to have a problem with it. I take an issue with negative racial stereotypes, not because they might offend people, but because they are wrong. When people stop thinking its all about folks "being offended", we might actually start getting somewhere on the issue.

 

[NoeL]

Holy fucking shit that was terrible.

I put my heart and soul into that production... T^T

I guess you succeeded in making what you wanted to though. I completely over the top parody of those old cop movies.

That was the plan.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

And that's even if the black community (like there is a place were black people have meetings and decide what is/ is not racist >.> ) thinks it's racist. There is a difference between offending people, and being racist.

quick, back to the hall of justice!

still, +1 for this same opinion.

OT: while 70 years ago blackface had it's racial connotations, i don't see anything wrong with someone getting into character.

if a *insert color here* puts on makeup/paint to better display who they are trying to be, i don't see any problem with it unless it's some kind of hate/superiority speech.

so no, i don't see this as racist, but i do question the fact they are reenacting the chris brown and rihanna incident..i have a very dark/thick sense of humor, and even I don't see what's funny about it.

 

[PirateRose]

I don't think it's the coloring of the skin part that's racist, it's the part that apparently Chris Brown and Rhianna are the only couple to go through domestic abuse in the last century. White men apparently never beat the crap out of their wives and girlfriends, just everyone that is not white abuses women. So everyone focuses on making an example of Chris Brown.

Aside the fact just making fun of domestic abuse is awful.

 

[sageoftruth]

SNIP

snip

snip

Not at all. Allow me to use your own words:

Black face was a way of laughing at those silly black people, and also a way of permitting whites to enjoy black entertainment, safe in the knowledge that they weren't giving credit to real black people.

So, were they mocking or belittling black people or were they portraying 2 current performers in a case of abuse that has been long accepted into pop-culture? See, that's what you are failing to grasp, the skit isn't about them being black, they just happen to be black.

You are standing on the sidelines screaming "you can't make yourself look black because people belittled black people that way in a entirely different context!!!". Nobody aside from perhaps Chris Brown and Rhianna have any real reason to be offended. Those that are, like you, are offended on behalf of other people. In other words, you worry about what is supposedly racist and offensive waaaaaay too much. I'll give you a tip. If you want to avoid being racist you have to avoid both being a dick and special consideration to/of people based on their race.

To answer your question, they were mocking two current performers, but the method they used to mock them accidentally references racist old traditions.

As far as your concerned, its just some kids in black make up and that's the extent of it. This instance of white people mocking black musicians by putting on black make up and caricaturing their misbehavior, has no resemblance to what we used do in the old days, when white people used to mock black musicians by putting on black make up and caricature their misbehavior. Looking at it that way, I don't know how anyone could think they are similar. What you're doing is divorcing this event entirely from any cultural context, when racism and racial stereotypes are all about cultural context. Had these kids not put on black make up, their attempt to harmlessly mock a couple of celebrities would have been met without issue. It would have been as you said: a skit about a couple of people who happen to be black. But the black face is there, the resemblance is there, and that's why we're having this discussion.

And for your information, I am not offended. I rarely am when I see something racist, but as I keep having to make clear to people, I don't have to be offended by something to have a problem with it. I take an issue with negative racial stereotypes, not because they might offend people, but because they are wrong. When people stop thinking its all about folks "being offended", we might actually start getting somewhere on the issue.

I disagree, we aren't going anywhere until people like you stop making issues out of thin air. But let's just leave it at that.

I do have to give credit though for offering a solution. Basically, when the issue of racism or sexism comes up, I feel that someone needs to ask, "If it's racist, then what could have been done to make it less racist?" If the judgment is unfounded, there won't be a reasonable answer (either that or the accuser just needs someone with a better imagination). If the accuser does have a solution, then great! We can move forward rather than going back and forth over who's right.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

I don't think it's the coloring of the skin part that's racist, it's the part that apparently Chris Brown and Rhianna are the only couple to go through domestic abuse in the last century. White men apparently never beat the crap out of their wives and girlfriends, just everyone that is not white abuses women. So everyone focuses on making an example of Chris Brown.

Aside the fact just making fun of domestic abuse is awful.

if you check the links, the comments section is filled to the brim with people complaining at the color..that's exactly the problem they find with it (although i do agree with your point, it was in poor taste to pick domestic abuse, but then again i haven't a video of it so i can't exactly say how that part was handled.)

just saying, to plenty of people, it is about the color thing...

 

[Jonluw]

Dressing up as a specific person who happens to have a different skin colour and then acting like that person is not racist.
Dressing up as "some person with a particular skin colour" and then acting "like people with this skin colour act" is racist.

Know the difference.