Is this right, or even legal?

[Terrara]

what that kid must learn is how to get friends, as backstabbing as most of them are.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

"It's easy to make up rules, but they ain't much use if the people don't understand why. Like my son. If I tell him not do do somethin', he'll do it anyways, just to spite me. If I punish him, he resents me for it. But if I show him why it's wrong, at least he has a reason not to do it again."
While I do not think that what he did was justified in any way, I do think that a punishment like that is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? He wasn't beaten, he wasn't jailed... He was just given community service, and as bad as it seems... Well would you rather him have gotten off with just a slap on the wrist, like detention? Community service is often embarrassing, difficult, uncomfortable, and usually downright disgusting. Would you rather him have gotten off with no punishment, and be totally unprepared for the real world?

 

[AlloAllo]

Why is it ridiculous? ...

...Because it was a one pound soda and he could bring the money the next day and it's vaguely like ending in jail for robbing a bank because you brought home the bank's pen?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

Stealing is ALWAYS wrong, it doesn't matter what the motives are, or who could it have helped more. The fact is when you take something that isn't yours you've done somebody wrong. Somebody, or several somebodies had to pay and/or be payed for that item. You just taking it no matter from who, or what the motivation is doesn't make it right.

 

[oktalist]

It doesn't matter what the kid did, that punishment is pretty much child abuse in my view. I'd recommend that your mum approach the kid's foster parents and encourage them to ask the headteacher to apologise and discuss more productive correctional measures, or else lodge a formal complaint with the local education authority.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Why is it ridiculous? ...

...Because it was a one pound soda and he could bring the money the next day and it's vaguely like ending in jail for robbing a bank because you brought home the bank's pen?

The difference is that taking a banks pen is usually an accident, and they don't fund them selves with pens. Stealing that soda hurt the school because that's part of how they make their money to, you know, teach children. Also it's misdemeanor theft, which in the real world can land some one (based on Nevada stats) 50+ hours of community service. Stealing a soda from a convenience store will get the cops called on you, stealing a banks pen is free advertising for them every time you use the pen. The difference, One gets reported to the police the other doesn't. Plus a pen is not a bank's lively hood, a single soda is any store/school/whatever's lively hood, even if it's just partially.

 

[AlloAllo]

The difference is that taking a banks pen is usually an accident, and they don't fund them selves with pens. Stealing that soda hurt the school because that's part of how they make their money to, you know, teach children. Also it's misdemeanor theft, which in the real world can land some one (based on Nevada stats) 50+ hours of community service. Stealing a soda from a convenience store will get the cops called on you, stealing a banks pen is free advertising for them every time you use the pen. The difference, One gets reported to the police the other doesn't. Plus a pen is not a bank's lively hood, a single soda is any store/school/whatever's lively hood, even if it's just partially.

I do remember with sadness the Laboratory we didn't get because we lost one euro.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

It doesn't matter what the kid did, that punishment is pretty much child abuse in my view. I'd recommend that your mum approach the kid's foster parents and encourage them to ask the headteacher to apologise and discuss more productive correctional measures, or else lodge a formal complaint with the local education authority.

Making some one work off their crime is abuse? God I'd like to live in your world.

I do remember with sadness the Laboratory we didn't get because we lost one euro.

Either that's really bad sarcasm, or the saddest thing I've ever heard.

 

[McMullen]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

So, the Robin Hood argument then. Setting aside how rarely that enters into acts of theft outside of Hollywood or the minds of self-righteous software pirates, the kind of stealing that a self-pitying schoolboy with semi-sociopathic tendencies engages in is hardly likely to be the "right" kind of stealing.

 

[CthulhuMessiah]

That's like saying that because I saw my mother killed when I was 10, I am completely immune to the law because I had a shitty childhood.

 

[jawakiller]

Would it encourage him to do it again? I don't know.

What I do know is that I had a couple of pretty shitty times in my childhood. Not as bad as this kid's, but still bad. And I also know that if someone made me do a humiliating job for what probably feels like a justified and miniscule crime I would have started resenting them pretty quickly.

I wasn't a bad kid, but being treated like shit would have made me into one.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if that kid is beginning to silently hate authority. To him, the people who took him away from his mum and the people who make his life suck harder in school might as well be lumped under 'authority figures' and teaching somebody to hate those in never going to do them any good.


I'm not saying that he should have just been allowed off with no mention of this ever again. But the situation could have been handled soooo much better than this.

I can agree with that. I guess it all depends on how old the kid is. If he's young, A stern warning or maybe detention would probably suffice but if this kid was middle school or older... I wouldn't go easy on him. So perhaps the severity should be chosen in relation to age, not circumstance.

I've been through shitty times as a kid but I'm glad nobody let me off. Learned how not to get caught thanks to them. See, teach a kid a harsh lesson the first time and they'll make sure they're never caught again. Then if they steal something as an adult, they'll try not to get caught, remembering how much it sucked. That's a good lesson.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

snip

After re-reading the OP and the rest of the thread, I am actually starting to agree in this case. However, too often I see the "It's Stealing. Therefore, it's wrong" cop-out. It just bugs me when people refuse to think about something.

 

[Signa]

I don't know why this is even a question. If crying has become a way to make someone feel remorse for handing out a punishment the crying person rightly deserved, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Serving the community in a certain way to help right the wrong of his destruction of the community is absolutely fucking fine.

I don't give a shit if he cries for 2 years straight, that kid stole, so he has to pay. If he goes through life thinking that he can do this sort of thing, he's going to be far more troubled than he is now unless they put a stop to it, and put him on the straight and narrow.

Well even though I'm not a follower of the "straight and narrow" philosophy, you make a good point. You have to live within the law. You are absolutely right, for a crime like theft, community service is perfect. What it comes down to is he screwed up, broke the law, paid his debt to society, and he'll get over it. Hell he'll learn an important lesson from it.

Exactly, and never, EVER underestimate the lengths a person will go to, to get out of a punishment, or anything that doesn't achieve incredibly high levels of instant gratification.

Given death, or a good days work for free. I'm sure a lot of 'troubled' kids would gladly choose death.

 

[McMullen]

I don't know why this is even a question. If crying has become a way to make someone feel remorse for handing out a punishment the crying person rightly deserved, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I think you just made the most sane and concise comment on this whole thread. I can't believe how many here are treating this as unfair punishment.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

Stealing is ALWAYS wrong, it doesn't matter what the motives are, or who could it have helped more. The fact is when you take something that isn't yours you've done somebody wrong. Somebody, or several somebodies had to pay and/or be payed for that item. You just taking it no matter from who, or what the motivation is doesn't make it right.

If that is what you believe, then I cannot change that.

However, I think that NOTHING is wrong by default. There is an exception to [b/]every[/b] rule and this is no different.

I would like to mention that I have come around somewhat is this case. The kid didn't need it, he wanted it and had no good reason to take it.

 

[AlloAllo]

I do remember with sadness the Laboratory we didn't get because we lost one euro.

Either that's really bad sarcasm, or the saddest thing I've ever heard.

You know what they say, de gustibus non disputandum est! 8D

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Would it encourage him to do it again? I don't know.

What I do know is that I had a couple of pretty shitty times in my childhood. Not as bad as this kid's, but still bad. And I also know that if someone made me do a humiliating job for what probably feels like a justified and miniscule crime I would have started resenting them pretty quickly.

I wasn't a bad kid, but being treated like shit would have made me into one.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if that kid is beginning to silently hate authority. To him, the people who took him away from his mum and the people who make his life suck harder in school might as well be lumped under 'authority figures' and teaching somebody to hate those in never going to do them any good.


I'm not saying that he should have just been allowed off with no mention of this ever again. But the situation could have been handled soooo much better than this.

I can agree with that. I guess it all depends on how old the kid is. If he's young, A stern warning or maybe detention would probably suffice but if this kid was middle school or older... I wouldn't go easy on him. So perhaps the severity should be chosen in relation to age, not circumstance.

I've been through shitty times as a kid but I'm glad nobody let me off. Learned how not to get caught thanks to them. See, teach a kid a harsh lesson the first time and they'll make sure they're never caught again. Then if they steal something as an adult, they'll try not to get caught, remembering how much it sucked. That's a good lesson.

I've been subject to some pretty unfair punishments, this one seems fair to me. It's not like when I went to school in eighth grade, cross dressed, and was made to vacuum, sweep and cleen the entire eighth grade wing. All because the dean thought I was just being rebellious, and she didn't approve of a boy wearing a skirt.

In fact it went to screwing up my elective classes, I was taken out of a technology class, and put in to home economics. Though the kid I switched places with was pretty glad, and Home Ec freaking rocked. I was even forced to dress down for PE, and shower afterwords alone. Because I couldn't well dress down with the girls, and the teachers didn't want the boys teasing me for wearing lingerie.

At any rate he bought and paid for his suffering when he stole the soda, and I can't blame the head master for leveling that kind of punishment.

 

[AlloAllo]

I've been subject to some pretty unfair punishments, this one seems fair to me. It's not like when I went to school in eighth grade, cross dressed, and was made to vacuum, sweep and cleen the entire eighth grade wing. All because the dean thought I was just being rebellious, and she didn't approve of a boy wearing a skirt.

In fact it went to screwing up my elective classes, I was taken out of a technology class, and put in to home economics. Though the kid I switched places with was pretty glad, and Home Ec freaking rocked. I was even forced to dress down for PE, and shower afterwords alone. Because I couldn't well dress down with the girls, and the teachers didn't want the boys teasing me for wearing lingerie.

...

To be completely fair, everything seems pretty fair if you're comparing it to that. Holy shit, dude.

 

[Signa]

I don't know why this is even a question. If crying has become a way to make someone feel remorse for handing out a punishment the crying person rightly deserved, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I think you just made the most sane and concise comment on this whole thread. I can't believe how many here are treating this as unfair punishment.

Too bad it's 5 pages in and no one will read it.