Is torture necessary?

[resultsmayvary]

During the Nuernberg trials we convicted, and at times, sentenced to death people who used torture. We did the same to the Japanese. They used the same water boarding technique that we are trying to justify now. That to me is majorly unacceptible.

What's also unnacceptible is the fact that if we use the techniques we can no longer expect other countries to not use the same techniques on our soldiers who are captured during wartime.

Add to that the fact that it honestly doesn't work(the results you get are normally the results the victim thinks you want)and I'd say it a wholly unacceptable practice.

 

[WilliamWhite1]

Torture will get a victim to say anything the torturer wants to hear.

Not only is it immoral, it gets faulty results. Pointless, stupid.

 

[SeleneRose]

It also gets good results sometimes
that said, I don't think its right
I believe there are better ways to get information
theres no need to bring our selves down to the terrorist's level

 

[Booze Zombie]

I do not believe in torture as a viable or efficent means of extracting information, what with most tortured people saying almost anything to stop the torture.
But, that won't stop Nitcheze being right...

"When one fights monsters, you become them."

 

[SeleneRose]

yes
We were different from monsters
I don't see a bunch of radical christians/jews/ectect hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings.

 

[Skeleon]

But we see them bombing abortion clinics and murdering homosexuals.

EDIT: At least radical Christians. I don't know of any Jewish religious terrorists.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I will not argue if torture is an effective tool for gathering information. I simply will not let it go to that. We must not put our men and women at risk by inviting retribution. We must not increase the power of the state out of fear for our skins. We must not commit war crimes upon enemy soldiers (and they are, by definition). We must not inflict needless suffering. We are better than that.

This is America, damn it.

EDIT: Even now, I cannot believe it has come to this. I would have called anyone a lunatic 10 years ago who suggested our government could ever become so ugly. Damn if I didn't learn.

 

[SeleneRose]

But we see them bombing abortion clinics and murdering homosexuals.

Yes
now keep in mind that all radicals are on the fringe of society
The US -should- be specifically targeting radicals, the -mainstream- is targeting radicals
we're talking about the group whom most people are in, against the radicals who want to -kill them-, because of thier nationality
We only become monsters when using thier methods becomes acceptable

 

[Bendon]

Some people like torture!
Should we go into people's houses and tell them to stop whipping each other?
No.

So why should the UN come into our house and take our prisoners and our guns and our jaerbs?!

Also, why should we stop at torture? Did hiroshima teach us nothing? Shouldn't we just nuke anyone darker than Matthew Mcconaughey who isn't holding a bible or shopping at Walmart?
Honestly, you liberals are scary[/sarcasm]

Was that too much?

in all seriousness, I think this debate is one of the worst to have aside from religious debates because it all boils down to morality which has no set value (which in my opinion doesn't make it any less valid as it is)

I don't think you guys should be torturing in this situation. Then again, it might help at some point

 

[ReZerO]

admit you are a terrorist... admit you are a witch and a heretic

People will agree to and admit anything under the right torture, which doesnt mean what they are saying is actually the truth.

I would of hoped humanity had progressed beyond medieval barbarity by the 21st century

The only people they'd be torturing would be people they knew were terrorists, who they believed had information that could save many lives. I think in that situation, you certainly have to do whatever you can to get it out of them. Better them suffer then for thousands of innocent people to lose their lives.

yes the 16 y/o Omar Khadar really needed to be tortured, a brainwashed kid who was just and and file. i'm sure he had lots of important information.

 

[sonidraw]

Hypothetical question here: What about somebody already on death row, and their appeals have all failed?

Edit: And dude, a 16 year old can be a soldier in most countries, know a lot of stuff and be various dangerous with a weapon and the know-how to use it properly. Give them subordinates, and a fanatical determination to do something, and they WILL do it. Just because they're 16 doesn't make them any less of a threat.

 

[Skeleon]

I'm just saying, there are radicals who are willing to hurt or kill other people in every group. I guess it depends on the definition of "monster", but I'd say every human has the potential to become one.

We only become monsters when using thier methods becomes acceptable

But isn't torture such a method? What good are our morals and sentiments of Human Rights if we only apply them to whomever we feel like it?

And what does that mainstream part mean?

 

[Worgen]

its pointless and it damages the country more then it could ever help, jack bower can go screw

 

[geddydisciple]

Torture will never be the moral thing to do in any circumstance. Unfortunatly it is sometimes necesary.

 

[Stikibunn]

Hey if america is throwing human rights out the window can we all go back to the dark ages?
I wanna be able to own a huge pile of slaves and indentured peasantry and care not for the use of landmines and lets only give the vote to free male with a univerisity degree!
Better yet, no voting. I wanna be a king in a feudal monarchy

 

[jasoncyrus]

I'd quite like to torture anyone who breaks the law, reguardless of crime. That'll certainly put the fear back into criminals. Won't take drugs if the punishment is having your arm hacked off. Wouldn't murder if the penalty was being left to the crows in a cage to be eaten alive. Wouldn't steal if the punishment was having all your fingers smashed with a hammer.

Torture isn't about gathering information or persuading people. It's about showing your enemies just how bad an idea it is to mess with you. It's not a method, its a CONSEQUENCE.

Next time you jay walk, enjoy a nice hammer to your fingers (or, logically, feet).

Next time someone drinks or drives before the legal age, death.

Next time someone illegally downloads something, TORTURE!

Yeah, that's a great fucking idea. Maybe people should also be like punished with death for littering or going above speed limit too.

I totally applaud you.

Poorly done sarcasm without reading my next post would be next on that list. For that, it's skinned alive by a Black&Decker Belt sander. And I'm safe from jay walking because it doesnt exist here (and is quite frankly a stupid law). I dont drink so safe there. I never 'illegally' download. I buy first, download a legal backup (allowed to have one) then send the original back siting it doesn't work. Viola, legal copy for no major cost.

I'm also have people tortured for being stupid and refusing to see an issue from both sides of the fence. Biased people are the cancer of humanity.

 

[Dys]

admit you are a terrorist... admit you are a witch and a heretic

People will agree to and admit anything under the right torture, which doesnt mean what they are saying is actually the truth.

I would of hoped humanity had progressed beyond medieval barbarity by the 21st century

This. You can make anyone admit to anything if you are patient and cruel enough.

Somebody explain to me how we can be fighting a war against terror invading countries, murdering civilians and torturing those we suspect of being our enemies.

I do not support any war waged against the Middle East or Islam, in fact it just so happens I beleive every man, woman and child is entitled to their own opinion, I am all for fighting a war to defend our country but torturing people for information they might have goes against everything we claim to be fighting for, and even if they do have it I don't beleive we should reduce ourselves to barbarians for the sake of finding some exhiled old terrorist who's so afraid of the western world he doesn't dare make any public appearances.

I'm assuming that everyone has enough understanding to see that nobody will ever be saved directly by information obtained through torture, even if the information obtained was accurate (which it never is, it's whatever the interigator wants to hear) the time it takes to break someone is far less than the time it will take any competant threat to execute whatever devious plans it may have.

So really to support torture not only would you have to be a hipoctite (assuming you beleive in any form of freedom), but you would have to be naive to the reality of how hopelessly innefective it is.

 

[jasoncyrus]

I'm not personally interested in a war against the middle east....I would however support a "re-education" of certain religious people and a re-writing of certain books so that they actually make sense in this world and have absolutely zero trace of 'anyone not in our religion is evil'.

Christianity and Islam are both guilty of this through and through...i say we simply let all the christians and muslims duke it out while the bhuddists, pagans, etc etc all kik back with some popcorn and take bets on how long before they realise we plan to purge them anyway.

Ok i admit that was mean, but honestly, you're both as bad as each other. You've tried to cleanse each other from the face of the earth once before already in the Crusades, you both failed miserably, can we please drop it and stop disguising it as anti terror crap?

 

[US Crash Fire]

the terrorists are so dedicated to their cause that they dont care about torture or death. and anything someones says while tortured cant be relied upon because they are saying it, not because its the truth and they are cracking, but its because they think its what you want to hear to stop torturing them. so im all for whatever it takes to win, but this doesnt work.

 

[Kyouran]

I would of hoped humanity had progressed beyond medieval barbarity by the 21st century

Okay, let's just cut their heads off with rusty knives and put it on Youtube.

This is why the USA never gets a fair shake on anything. The consequences of being human are forgiven everyone save us.