Isn't the Roman Empire kinda overrated?

Catchy Slogan

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I rather like having public hygeine and bathrooms thank you very much.

EDIT: Also roads. Did you know that Street is the old Anglo word for Roman Road.
 

emeraldrafael

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Thats kinda like saying that the British Empire is over rated. its all about influence. I'm sure in countries with little influence from the roman empire it is overrated, and they hold a society the western world thinks is over rated.
 

Keava

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You clearly missed the point.

While sure, Arab or Far East empires had maybe even greater achievements in the ancient times, their deeds did not really affect the Europe itself till much much later. Rome, however, created the Europe as we know it, through their politics and organizations they pushed forward the civilization across the continent. Along with heir military force and doctrine came roads, technological advancement, latin as a "common" language, education system, etc.

A lot what happened later would not be possible if not the doing of Julius Caesar, history is not about "who conquered the most" but whose action influenced the following centuries the most. If not the transformation from Republic to Empire, Romans would fall much much earlier due to civil wars. He was just there at the right time at the right place.
 

Rule Britannia

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The Romans structered the way british persons lived without them british people wouldn't be as awesome and amazing as they are now :)
 

Booze Zombie

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Leviathan_ said:
Because they have silly helmets.


Oh and their architecture pretty much shaped our view on building shit even till this day.
You give a very concise and logical reply. Oh how I hate you, you ninja stained in the blood of many an stillborn post!
 

Scipio1770

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SckizoBoy said:
All the impact that Rome had was as a Republic, so yeah, the Empire is overrated. The decline of the Roman Empire is effectively the entire of the Empire's existence. While there were periods of expansion/success, the imperial/caesarean system was always doomed to failure, because for all I admire him, Augustus didn't ensure the succession of the right men.
any historian will tell you the flavian dynasty was the height of roman influence, and that was well into the empire's lifetime.
 

Zanaxal

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They were one of the first to have running sewer systems and water supply, They invented to concrete and paving of roads for wheeled transport etc. All taken for granted now.

You also had the senate which was one of the earliest type of democracy like institutions when the rest of the worlds were pretty much kings and dictators.

So it wasnt all bloodshed and gladiators that crappy tv wants you to know.

Well Ceaser managed to take over gaul (France area) and bring them to the roman empires control which was a huge bit of land. Plus he won a civil war vs Pompei and Got Egypt and Cleopatra to join in alliance with rome and secure grainsupplies (well atleast what rome tvseries say i'm no historian) Also I played some rome vae:victis lol lolz
 

Warforger

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Zetsubou-Sama said:
For the Western world, the Roman Empire had much much more impact, the same way say the mongols had to the Eastern world, if you go to school in say...Japan they teach more about the japanese empire/chinese/mongols than what we teach and less roman empire that we in turn teach.
Yes, but I do still find it annoying how if you watch any historical programming alot of it is on Rome.

Zetsubou-Sama said:
And to say the roman empire is overrated is false, to start with, all law systems, civil law, the concept of citizenship across the empire and not as a blood thing, and even the fact that we write law down in books and is created by reason as opposed to jus naturalismo, is a result of roman heritage.
Writing down laws doesn't seem to be much of an advance no one else could also think of.

Zetsubou-Sama said:
Greece had an impact on philosophy, math and political science (arguably more than Rome), but to call the achievements of the roman empire lesser than those of other empires is in my opinion wrong.
I'm not saying lesser, but rather average.

Zetsubou-Sama said:
And while the mongols had a huge empire that spanned across three continents, the way it worked wasn't comaprable to the way the roman empire assimilated, turned and converted and took care of it's empire.
Yes, but it had a bigger effect on the course of the history of those territories it conquered and due to more being conquered this means more of an impact on the world. Rome had to wait for its successors to do such, almost all of which created bigger, more expansive and more impactful empires.

Zetsubou-Sama said:
Sure there are a lot of empires with a whole ton of submissive people, but few had the way of the romans to turn what were once cultures with their own identity, into romans in one way or the other.
You mean like the Islamic Caliphates?

Zetsubou-Sama said:
Adding: Also how many empires can say after they're gone, they were the reason for the return of an entire painting/architecture/sculpture style in the 15th century, the reason that gave birth to the crusades, and to top it all off, the basis of 6 languages in europe and influence to countless others.
Erm isn't that kinda the opposite of a unified empire as you were trying to paint out? I'll bring up a counterpoint: The Islamic Caliphates. They spread the Islamic religion all over the world being stopped at France and China, and under them the Islamic world made many advances in engineering math and science. Hell some of the old contraptions are still in use today because they worked so well! And now in the 70's they had a sort of rebirth. If you read OBL's messages his plan is this Step 1 bring the West into an expensive guerilla war to bring their economies down Step 2: Because of this maintaing troops in the Middle East will be too expensive so they will be forced to stay out of it Step 3: Now without the support of the West the oppressive dictatorships will be brought down and Islamic states in their place back to the days of the Caliphates Step 4: Things are prospering again. Not that it makes sense, that would be like the French going to war with the Germans and thinking they'll win because they're French and are lead by a guy also named Napoleon.
 

Fleischer

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MightyRabbit said:
Really? One of the major bases of the English (and many others, particularly French) language is Latin
Except it isn't. English is a Germanic language.
 

Ace of Spades

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Yeah, because shaping the development of European society is nothing compared to conquering a bit of territory.
Fleischer said:
MightyRabbit said:
Really? One of the major bases of the English (and many others, particularly French) language is Latin
Except it isn't. English is a Germanic language.
Except it is. English is a hodge-podge of German and French, French being a Latin-based language.
 

Tiger Sora

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Meanwhile in the English speaking Roman Jerusalem

And I don't think Rome was overrated. Without them the face of the world now would be quite different.
 

Matthew Valkanov

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Rayne870 said:
Warforger said:
I might even move onto say Caesar is even MORE overrated, he...
I stopped reading after this line Caesar was a title not an individual. The rest of the posters pretty much nailed what you missed as well.
Actually the title was created from the Cognomen, or nickname, of Julius Caesar, the person to whom the OP is referring. So yeah...

Though I disagree that the Roman Empire's influence is overrated, I feel that I must point out that the main reason why it has had such and influence on modern western society is because ever since the fall of the Roman Empire, Western European civilisations have put the Romans on some sort of holy altar. If it weren't for Charlemagne's insane obsession with imperial trappings, it's quite possible that European culture would have taken more from Germanic culture than from Latin.
 

Nocta-Aeterna

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Keava said:
You clearly missed the point.

While sure, Arab or Far East empires had maybe even greater achievements in the ancient times, their deeds did not really affect the Europe itself till much much later. Rome, however, created the Europe as we know it, through their politics and organizations they pushed forward the civilization across the continent. Along with heir military force and doctrine came roads, technological advancement, latin as a "common" language, education system, etc.

A lot what happened later would not be possible if not the doing of Julius Caesar, history is not about "who conquered the most" but whose action influenced the following centuries the most. If not the transformation from Republic to Empire, Romans would fall much much earlier due to civil wars. He was just there at the right time at the right place.
True, too bad part of that was temporarily lost during the Dark Ages/Early Middle Ages. Huzzah for the Rennaisance, I suppose.

Speaking of great influence and East Asia, one could say the same thing about Imperial China, the Mongol Empire and India. My knowledge of history is very limited, but it seems to me they left quite their mark on East Asia. As far as I know, much of old Korean and Japanese culture is derived of the Chinese, including most of their script, similar to how we are currently using the Roman alphabet.

OT: Back to the Roman Empire. They gave us the concept of paved roads as opposed to muddy tracks; the archway and the dome; mortar and cement; taxes; spread democracy (to an extent) much farther that Athens ever did; plumbing; multi-storied buildings, bricks etc... hmm, yes.. I suppose that's all a bit overrated.
 

Matthew Valkanov

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Wabblefish said:
\

I'll be interested in other civilizations though when more people are interested in Australia's contributions to war in the last 150-200 so years (which probably won't happen)

Oh, they already are. Unfortunately they don't seem to remember anything other than Gallipoli -_-'
 

Thaluikhain

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It's only (maybe) over-rated if, after mentioning the power and influence of Rome, you fail to mention the power and influence of at least vaguely comparable societies. Which, yes, often happens.
 

doorofnight

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While the Romans weren't the only great empire, with others conquering more territory and faster, and there are a number of great innovations which others take deserved credit for(and most of what the Romans did was not invented by them, their genius was taking older forms and vastly improving upon them). But there are several reasons why the Roman Empire could rightly be considered the most successful empire there has ever been.

1)Longevity, there was a state that identified itself as Roman for almost 2000 years, only China can claim a longer use of the same name(so far as I am aware). More importantly the Roman Empire was the dominant power in Europe and the Mediterranean for 800 years(roughly 100BC to 700 AD), even losing Italy and Rome itself for the last 200 years of that didn't change their dominant status even if they weren't a huge empire any longer. No other empire or Dynasty can claim that kind of longevity of dominance.

2)Related to that, virtually all other empires rise quickly and fall quickly, the Roman Empire rose slowly and fell slowly.

3)Engineering, while not the only great builders and, again, they didn't invent most of what they used to so great effect, but there are a number of Roman engineering achievements that were not surpassed until the 18th century when steel reinforcing came into wide use. They built aqueducts stretching dozens if not hundreds of miles that were carefully built to only descend about 6 inches per mile and provided millions of gallons of water per day, they had running water on the third floor of the coliseum which could be emptied in less than 20 minutes, and the dome of the Pantheon is STILL the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built(that has never cracked, others were built larger, all of them cracked) and no dome was made larger period until 1850.

4)Law, even the Greeks recognized the Roman preeminence in Law, and as already noted their law codes are still hugely influential around the world.

On the other hand, I kind of agree that Julius Caesar is a bit overrated. He was a great man, sure, and he did extraordinary things, but while a great general, Pompey was better(Pompey lost the civil war in part because while a fantastic general he had been out of the field for 10 years, had an inexperienced army, and, most importantly, he clearly never understood Caesar while Caesar seemed to be able to read him like a book). He was a great speaker, but Cicero was better, he was a great Politician but Augustus was FAR better, and he almost single-handedly destroyed the Republic(although its demise was perhaps inevitable by the time Caesar came along, if it hadn't been him that killed it, someone else would have) and died perhaps because he didn't understand that sometimes form is more important than function(i.e. even if the Republic didn't work and one man rule worked better(and it does, if you have a sane and capable person as the one man, two VERY big ifs, hence why such systems often don't last long and are not preferred by most people) the form of the Republic was still important to people. Most importantly, however, is that while he did great things and was hugely influential what he did, and his influence, pales in comparison to the achievements of his great-nephew and successor Augustus.
 
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Genghis Khan [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan#Western_Xia_Dynasty] began is military campaign in 1206CE.

The Islamic Golden Age [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age] started circa 750CE

Rome [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome] was founded circa 1000BCE

So, there's really no comparison, unless you want to toss in the British Empire, the USSR and the United States.

Egypt, on the other hand...

238U.