Khurram AhmedReligion is always a touchy subject to approach, in any art form, but there's no denying it has a profound impact on all of them. Khurram Ahmed discusses religion and videogames.
Issue 29: Extra - Making the Sacrifice
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
Original Comment by: Slartibartfast
Just to nitpick, while SimCity (2k and 3k at least) does not allow you build churches per say, you will notice that some of the mid-level residential zones will develop into churches. Also, the Sim City CCG had tons of churches of all different kinds.
Anyways, I thought that the beginning of the article was very well developed and interesting. The idea of the scapegoat is certainly worth considering, because it appeals to people on a very primitive level and is so widespread. Oftentimes the greatest works of literature and film have no direct scapegoat, because having a scapegoat leaves no room for questions. However, I am uncertain as to the author's overall point, besides that games should incorporate religion.
I would also like to speak to the following: on page 24 the author writes:
"When a gamer feels his or her sensitivities being questioned, the wholesomeness of the playing experience is undermined."
To be frank, this pissed me off. Unless you're making a game for children, what is the point of making a game wholesome? Yes, the population at large does not like to have their beliefs/ideas challenged (that's why "adults" like Disney), but the whole point of art, in my opinion, is to do just that (who here would seriously consider a Disney movie or Veggie Tales to be a work of art?). Interacting with a work that serves only to reinforce your current belief system is detrimental to yourself as a whole. This is a huge problem all over the world: people believe what they believe and are not willing to change it. In order for humanity to make real progress as a species, this needs to be overcome. If a work does not challenge, does not force the viewer/player to rethink some aspect of themselves or the world, or to expand/better themselves in any way, then it's not art and usually a waste of time. It's the same thing for religious rock bands: if you spend your whole childhood hearing about how great Jesus is, and then you grow up and listen to Christian rock about how great Jesus is, you are only pushing yourself further and further down towards the primates. Religion reinforces "us and them" thinking, which fundamentally is what allows us to justify to ourselves violence and discrimination, be it on the part of ourselves personally or our culture/religion as a whole.
Spirituality can be a valuable thing, yes, but religon and beliefs are products of our primitive, animalistic brains.
Any book, game, movie, song, painting, etc. that is made solely to reinforce existing beliefs is a waste of time, space, and energy.
Just to nitpick, while SimCity (2k and 3k at least) does not allow you build churches per say, you will notice that some of the mid-level residential zones will develop into churches. Also, the Sim City CCG had tons of churches of all different kinds.
Anyways, I thought that the beginning of the article was very well developed and interesting. The idea of the scapegoat is certainly worth considering, because it appeals to people on a very primitive level and is so widespread. Oftentimes the greatest works of literature and film have no direct scapegoat, because having a scapegoat leaves no room for questions. However, I am uncertain as to the author's overall point, besides that games should incorporate religion.
I would also like to speak to the following: on page 24 the author writes:
"When a gamer feels his or her sensitivities being questioned, the wholesomeness of the playing experience is undermined."
To be frank, this pissed me off. Unless you're making a game for children, what is the point of making a game wholesome? Yes, the population at large does not like to have their beliefs/ideas challenged (that's why "adults" like Disney), but the whole point of art, in my opinion, is to do just that (who here would seriously consider a Disney movie or Veggie Tales to be a work of art?). Interacting with a work that serves only to reinforce your current belief system is detrimental to yourself as a whole. This is a huge problem all over the world: people believe what they believe and are not willing to change it. In order for humanity to make real progress as a species, this needs to be overcome. If a work does not challenge, does not force the viewer/player to rethink some aspect of themselves or the world, or to expand/better themselves in any way, then it's not art and usually a waste of time. It's the same thing for religious rock bands: if you spend your whole childhood hearing about how great Jesus is, and then you grow up and listen to Christian rock about how great Jesus is, you are only pushing yourself further and further down towards the primates. Religion reinforces "us and them" thinking, which fundamentally is what allows us to justify to ourselves violence and discrimination, be it on the part of ourselves personally or our culture/religion as a whole.
Spirituality can be a valuable thing, yes, but religon and beliefs are products of our primitive, animalistic brains.
Any book, game, movie, song, painting, etc. that is made solely to reinforce existing beliefs is a waste of time, space, and energy.
Original Comment by: Nysidra
http://biancalee.com
You are incorrect regarding Second Life. Second Life does not include _anything_ in the game except for what the players build.
If the people want a church, they can build one, and have. There are gothic cathedrals in Second Life.
If an avatar wishes to have locks, or a bindi, he or she can create an avatar just like that.
There's not much evidence of religion in Second Life because none of the players wish to create it.
http://biancalee.com
You are incorrect regarding Second Life. Second Life does not include _anything_ in the game except for what the players build.
If the people want a church, they can build one, and have. There are gothic cathedrals in Second Life.
If an avatar wishes to have locks, or a bindi, he or she can create an avatar just like that.
There's not much evidence of religion in Second Life because none of the players wish to create it.
Original Comment by: Rowley641
I disagree with what Mr. Ahmed said when he said that in the Lord of the Rings after the ring was destroyed Sauron was destroyed and everything was right again. This may be so in the movie but if you read the book you know that upon going home the fellowship sees that things are still bad and they even have to fight in the Shire. Things aren't ever really back to normal and if you don't pick up on that then you're missing out on one of the main points of the book. This is also why Frodo must leave Middle Earth.
I disagree with what Mr. Ahmed said when he said that in the Lord of the Rings after the ring was destroyed Sauron was destroyed and everything was right again. This may be so in the movie but if you read the book you know that upon going home the fellowship sees that things are still bad and they even have to fight in the Shire. Things aren't ever really back to normal and if you don't pick up on that then you're missing out on one of the main points of the book. This is also why Frodo must leave Middle Earth.
Original Comment by: dhex
http://www.gamersquarter.com
what about the left behind RTS game? it's actually a perfect example of what you're talking about, in some ways; it not only treats religion and religious mythology as tangible design elements, it's being sold to a population that largerly believes in the premise (in some manner of speaking; one person's eschatology is another person's poetic license, etc)
i was a bit puzzled on the scapegoat angle, too. a bit disjointed, this.
"Spirituality can be a valuable thing, yes, but religon and beliefs are products of our primitive, animalistic brains. "
so you spend a lot of time interacting with religious traditions and belief system outside your own, then? to do otherwise would be, well, hypocritical.
http://www.gamersquarter.com
what about the left behind RTS game? it's actually a perfect example of what you're talking about, in some ways; it not only treats religion and religious mythology as tangible design elements, it's being sold to a population that largerly believes in the premise (in some manner of speaking; one person's eschatology is another person's poetic license, etc)
i was a bit puzzled on the scapegoat angle, too. a bit disjointed, this.
"Spirituality can be a valuable thing, yes, but religon and beliefs are products of our primitive, animalistic brains. "
so you spend a lot of time interacting with religious traditions and belief system outside your own, then? to do otherwise would be, well, hypocritical.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Slartibartfast:
Thank you for enlightening me on nuances of the later SimCity titles. I appreciate it, but I?m sorry to say that I don?t believe this new information puts a dent in my argument. We have, after all, the Sims.
You?re making a jump in your logic. I never said that games should be wholesome; I merely pointed out how wholesomeness is undermined.
As for gamers looking for games that reinforce what they believe, I again feel misunderstood. It is more accurate to say some gamers just want to avoid what is clearly occult to them. Games that wholeheartedly ignore religion and spirituality are generally received well, and considered ?appropriate.? I encourage you to perform your own Google search for Christian videogame reviews.
Regarding artful Disney movies, I suggest you revisit ?Beauty and the Beast.?
I?m not trying to piss you off, but you know what? I believe religion does more good than harm.
Nysidra:
You are, of course, correct. My apologies.
The absence, or at least the marginalization, of religion in Second Life being a voluntary decision by gamers is just as significant to the discussion. I ought to have looked at it separately.
Rowley641:
I should have said this earlier, but I obviously had the Jackson movie, and not the Tolkien books, in mind.
In the real world, when the scapegoat is sacrificed (literally or metaphorically), a new is sought to maintain the status quo. The entire cycle of scapegoat acquisition and dissolution is ritualized.
I didn?t want to complicate the article, especially when I was just trying to point to a super-lucid pop easily identifiable pop culture example of my greater point. What happens after Sauron?s demise and the Scourging of the Shire, is that Frodo completes his story so future generations understand what makes a scapegoat and what destroys it. This is the knowledge that every society is in search of. Once attained, the cycle can be reduced to sacred dramatization.
Once Frodo completes this task, he becomes the new Sauron. He becomes the scapegoat. Frodo is not recognized as the yin to Sauron?s yang until he is either dealt a similar fate or granted what Sauron himself desired. Of course, no one is crowned King of Middle Earth, so Frodo must be removed from the world to the Undying Lands.
I hope that makes sense.
Dhex:
I have actually never played ?Left Behind,? and know little about it. I?ll be looking into it with high hopes now.
Thanks.
Slartibartfast:
Thank you for enlightening me on nuances of the later SimCity titles. I appreciate it, but I?m sorry to say that I don?t believe this new information puts a dent in my argument. We have, after all, the Sims.
You?re making a jump in your logic. I never said that games should be wholesome; I merely pointed out how wholesomeness is undermined.
As for gamers looking for games that reinforce what they believe, I again feel misunderstood. It is more accurate to say some gamers just want to avoid what is clearly occult to them. Games that wholeheartedly ignore religion and spirituality are generally received well, and considered ?appropriate.? I encourage you to perform your own Google search for Christian videogame reviews.
Regarding artful Disney movies, I suggest you revisit ?Beauty and the Beast.?
I?m not trying to piss you off, but you know what? I believe religion does more good than harm.
Nysidra:
You are, of course, correct. My apologies.
The absence, or at least the marginalization, of religion in Second Life being a voluntary decision by gamers is just as significant to the discussion. I ought to have looked at it separately.
Rowley641:
I should have said this earlier, but I obviously had the Jackson movie, and not the Tolkien books, in mind.
In the real world, when the scapegoat is sacrificed (literally or metaphorically), a new is sought to maintain the status quo. The entire cycle of scapegoat acquisition and dissolution is ritualized.
I didn?t want to complicate the article, especially when I was just trying to point to a super-lucid pop easily identifiable pop culture example of my greater point. What happens after Sauron?s demise and the Scourging of the Shire, is that Frodo completes his story so future generations understand what makes a scapegoat and what destroys it. This is the knowledge that every society is in search of. Once attained, the cycle can be reduced to sacred dramatization.
Once Frodo completes this task, he becomes the new Sauron. He becomes the scapegoat. Frodo is not recognized as the yin to Sauron?s yang until he is either dealt a similar fate or granted what Sauron himself desired. Of course, no one is crowned King of Middle Earth, so Frodo must be removed from the world to the Undying Lands.
I hope that makes sense.
Dhex:
I have actually never played ?Left Behind,? and know little about it. I?ll be looking into it with high hopes now.
Thanks.
Original Comment by: Slartibartfast
Dhex:
A failure to interact with other belief systems would not be hypocritical, what would be hypocritical would be citing religious beliefs as a primary reason for doing something. I went to a Jesuit college and was exposed to a wide variety of religions, and I have my own set of "beliefs," if you will, but I am not afraid to reevaluate them. Rufus in "Dogma" (how's that for an academic source) put it best when he said that it's best to have ideas about things, because you can change an idea, not a belief. The problem with beliefs is that they always tend towards the same thing: I'm in the right and there are other people who are in the wrong, and that's just the way it is. Sometimes this means those "other people" should be killed, sometimes just persecuted. It's beliefs that are making people want to teach Intelligent Design as a science. I read a lot about ID in college and it is certainly not a science, but the minds of the people who believe in it are warped enough that they think it is (or should be) a science. I'm not claiming I'm perfect, I am a human and I'm sure that I do this to an extent to, but I'm saying the most important thing is to keep asking questions, especially, "why?"
Khurram:
But what is wholesome? Something that is unoffensive, or something that appeals to a person's ingrained sensibilities (which is related to nostalgia)? I tend to think of the latter definition, in which case I think that the temptation to immerse oneself in "wholesome" media should be resisted. Also, I am curious as to your comment about gamers wanting to avoid things that are occult to them. As you said, most games are devoid of religous content, so I do not quite understand your meaning. Could you talk a bit about what occult imagery/ideas you see in popular games, or are you referring to games such as God of War, or games that create their own religion/mythology?
As an aside, have you played Xenogears on the PS1? It's been a few years since last I did but that game is full of religions imagery, mostly christian. If you haven't played it I think you might find it interesting.
Dhex:
A failure to interact with other belief systems would not be hypocritical, what would be hypocritical would be citing religious beliefs as a primary reason for doing something. I went to a Jesuit college and was exposed to a wide variety of religions, and I have my own set of "beliefs," if you will, but I am not afraid to reevaluate them. Rufus in "Dogma" (how's that for an academic source) put it best when he said that it's best to have ideas about things, because you can change an idea, not a belief. The problem with beliefs is that they always tend towards the same thing: I'm in the right and there are other people who are in the wrong, and that's just the way it is. Sometimes this means those "other people" should be killed, sometimes just persecuted. It's beliefs that are making people want to teach Intelligent Design as a science. I read a lot about ID in college and it is certainly not a science, but the minds of the people who believe in it are warped enough that they think it is (or should be) a science. I'm not claiming I'm perfect, I am a human and I'm sure that I do this to an extent to, but I'm saying the most important thing is to keep asking questions, especially, "why?"
Khurram:
But what is wholesome? Something that is unoffensive, or something that appeals to a person's ingrained sensibilities (which is related to nostalgia)? I tend to think of the latter definition, in which case I think that the temptation to immerse oneself in "wholesome" media should be resisted. Also, I am curious as to your comment about gamers wanting to avoid things that are occult to them. As you said, most games are devoid of religous content, so I do not quite understand your meaning. Could you talk a bit about what occult imagery/ideas you see in popular games, or are you referring to games such as God of War, or games that create their own religion/mythology?
As an aside, have you played Xenogears on the PS1? It's been a few years since last I did but that game is full of religions imagery, mostly christian. If you haven't played it I think you might find it interesting.
Original Comment by: reader
This was a really fascinating article.
The link between religion/video games and the scapegoat theory are not things I have ever given much thought.
Excellent work, Mr. Ahmed.
This was a really fascinating article.
The link between religion/video games and the scapegoat theory are not things I have ever given much thought.
Excellent work, Mr. Ahmed.
Original Comment by: Raja
I wonder if the author played Killer7 all the way to the end. I thought that game had some interesting things to say, myself, and I appreciated the lack of pulled punches to appease the politically-correct.
I wonder if the author played Killer7 all the way to the end. I thought that game had some interesting things to say, myself, and I appreciated the lack of pulled punches to appease the politically-correct.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Slartibartfast:
I want to believe the question of wholesomeness to be black and white to most people. But I?m afraid the question is only best answered with examples. The use of the occult as a narrative tool in videogames is virtually everywhere religion isn?t completely ignored. Most games are devoid of religious content, but when religion is invoked, it is more often with a mythology. You cited ?God of War? yourself, but I also want to add games like ?Resident Evil 4? to the list. Saddler is clearly running a cult. Religious imagery presented as it is in either light, as in RE4 or GoW, is present as the occult; the uncanny; the religious but impossible.
Mario platformers are wholesome because an evil being has usurped the thrown of a good princess and kidnapped her. GTA titles are not wholesome because you can kill the innocent. The same goes for ?Manhunt?. You might argue that in these games, there is no good guy ? everyone is somewhat bad, so it?s OK to take their money and kill them. That?s not a wholesome environment, either. Then there are games like KOTOR, where you can choose to make it a wholesome experience, or choose not to.
As a note, there are many instances of characters being sacrificed. The Metroid hatchling that imprints on to Samus at the end of ?Super Metroid?, and saves the heroine, is one example. It?s not a scapegoat. But is it a Christ figure?
I never had a PS1, and missed out on a few gems. I?ll have to look into 'Xenogears'. So long as we?re inviting each other to new experiences, give ?Killer7? a try.
I couldn't hope to cover the entire issue regarding religion in games, but I tried to get a good sampling that addressed most of the occurrences. I hope something I said about another game rings true for how religion is handled in 'Xenogears'.
Raja:
I played through ?Killer7?, and intend to play through the second quest. One review of the game, the source of which I can?t remember, was particularly poignant. It said something to the effect of, ??Killer7? is clearly a game is born out of a creative vision and not the result of boardroom decision?. I couldn?t agree more. It?s either a fantastic idea with good execution, or a good idea with fantastic education. I?m not sure which.
Slartibartfast:
I want to believe the question of wholesomeness to be black and white to most people. But I?m afraid the question is only best answered with examples. The use of the occult as a narrative tool in videogames is virtually everywhere religion isn?t completely ignored. Most games are devoid of religious content, but when religion is invoked, it is more often with a mythology. You cited ?God of War? yourself, but I also want to add games like ?Resident Evil 4? to the list. Saddler is clearly running a cult. Religious imagery presented as it is in either light, as in RE4 or GoW, is present as the occult; the uncanny; the religious but impossible.
Mario platformers are wholesome because an evil being has usurped the thrown of a good princess and kidnapped her. GTA titles are not wholesome because you can kill the innocent. The same goes for ?Manhunt?. You might argue that in these games, there is no good guy ? everyone is somewhat bad, so it?s OK to take their money and kill them. That?s not a wholesome environment, either. Then there are games like KOTOR, where you can choose to make it a wholesome experience, or choose not to.
As a note, there are many instances of characters being sacrificed. The Metroid hatchling that imprints on to Samus at the end of ?Super Metroid?, and saves the heroine, is one example. It?s not a scapegoat. But is it a Christ figure?
I never had a PS1, and missed out on a few gems. I?ll have to look into 'Xenogears'. So long as we?re inviting each other to new experiences, give ?Killer7? a try.
I couldn't hope to cover the entire issue regarding religion in games, but I tried to get a good sampling that addressed most of the occurrences. I hope something I said about another game rings true for how religion is handled in 'Xenogears'.
Raja:
I played through ?Killer7?, and intend to play through the second quest. One review of the game, the source of which I can?t remember, was particularly poignant. It said something to the effect of, ??Killer7? is clearly a game is born out of a creative vision and not the result of boardroom decision?. I couldn?t agree more. It?s either a fantastic idea with good execution, or a good idea with fantastic education. I?m not sure which.
Original Comment by: Rohsiph
Throughout reading this article, I kept wondering when Xenogears would be discussed. Xenogears builds a universe that invites elements of, as Slartibartfest mentioned, mostly Christian-themed religion. In some sense, I felt like the progression of the story espoused a retelling of many events straight out of the Bible. The success of the game's story, and my understanding for its lauded position as one of the greatest console RPG stories yet told, develops from a painstakingly detailed backstory that is hinted at through various flashbacks in the game, but with many parts that are only clarified in an artbook in former-Square's "Perfect Works" series that also included an entry for SaGa Frontier 2.
I think the closest example to the liveliness of religion in Xenogears that was cited in the article was Tales of Symphonia, though Xenogears twists many of the religious occasions in a more ambiguous direction.
Aside from the absense of examining Xenogears, which I also recommend a play through, I found the article to be very compelling. Thank you for writing on a subject I haven't considered in relation to the gaming industry in a long while, Ahmed.
Throughout reading this article, I kept wondering when Xenogears would be discussed. Xenogears builds a universe that invites elements of, as Slartibartfest mentioned, mostly Christian-themed religion. In some sense, I felt like the progression of the story espoused a retelling of many events straight out of the Bible. The success of the game's story, and my understanding for its lauded position as one of the greatest console RPG stories yet told, develops from a painstakingly detailed backstory that is hinted at through various flashbacks in the game, but with many parts that are only clarified in an artbook in former-Square's "Perfect Works" series that also included an entry for SaGa Frontier 2.
I think the closest example to the liveliness of religion in Xenogears that was cited in the article was Tales of Symphonia, though Xenogears twists many of the religious occasions in a more ambiguous direction.
Aside from the absense of examining Xenogears, which I also recommend a play through, I found the article to be very compelling. Thank you for writing on a subject I haven't considered in relation to the gaming industry in a long while, Ahmed.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Rohsiph:
A second opinion always helps. I'll definitely have to look into this 'Xenogears' thingy. As you can tell, I enjoyed Tales of Symphonia a lot. ToS managed to be funny at times, and had a very rich combat and party development system. Hopefully, I'll get more than just a great myth told in Xenogears.
I favorite Square games are actually FF6, Super Mario RPG and Crono Trigger, in no particular order but none of those provide coherent myth for their world.
Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Rohsiph:
A second opinion always helps. I'll definitely have to look into this 'Xenogears' thingy. As you can tell, I enjoyed Tales of Symphonia a lot. ToS managed to be funny at times, and had a very rich combat and party development system. Hopefully, I'll get more than just a great myth told in Xenogears.
I favorite Square games are actually FF6, Super Mario RPG and Crono Trigger, in no particular order but none of those provide coherent myth for their world.
Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Original Comment by: Rae Obasare
Excellent, excellent, portrayal of religion and philosophy in videogames!! It is obvious from the numerous comments,whether aggreable or not, that this article was clearly thought provoking and very insightful. Religion of course means a great deal to a plethora of individuals, whether, atheist, agnostic, biblical or eastern, and as such I would be surprised if this topic did not generate at least some controversy. However, I must say, that Mr. Ahmed did a nearly immaculate job at relaying, a clearly difficult and sensitive discourse on the role, intents and attempts of religion in video games.
Again, excellent prose and content. Many appraisals as well to the Escapist team for providing such a topical issue. You definitely must have received heavy ratings from this article and issue overall.
Anxiously hoping for more excellent reads from Mr. Ahmed!!
Excellent, excellent, portrayal of religion and philosophy in videogames!! It is obvious from the numerous comments,whether aggreable or not, that this article was clearly thought provoking and very insightful. Religion of course means a great deal to a plethora of individuals, whether, atheist, agnostic, biblical or eastern, and as such I would be surprised if this topic did not generate at least some controversy. However, I must say, that Mr. Ahmed did a nearly immaculate job at relaying, a clearly difficult and sensitive discourse on the role, intents and attempts of religion in video games.
Again, excellent prose and content. Many appraisals as well to the Escapist team for providing such a topical issue. You definitely must have received heavy ratings from this article and issue overall.
Anxiously hoping for more excellent reads from Mr. Ahmed!!
Original Comment by: Dark Phantom
I thought the author did a spectacular job of elucidating some of the ways religion is used in video games, without getting too ideological or displaying any particular bias to any one religion. I thought the scapegoat theory is particularly apt when dealing with many games: In fact, it is a theme that is quite ubiquitous in the gaming world. It is one that is consistently used in videogames where restoring normalcy to the game-world can only be achieved by defeating the ultimate boss.
Religion is certainly marginalized in videogames - you rarely ever find overt affiliation to any one religion. And when religion is used in games it is indeed shrouded in mythology or some abstract belief system that is loosely based on any mainstream religion.
Killer7 is a spectacular example of how religion is affronted in videogames ? exemplifying something that is rarely ever done in the gaming industry amidst fears of offending any potential market. Kudos.
Mr. Ahmed did a fantastic job of achieving his goal of dealing a touchy subject.
I thought the author did a spectacular job of elucidating some of the ways religion is used in video games, without getting too ideological or displaying any particular bias to any one religion. I thought the scapegoat theory is particularly apt when dealing with many games: In fact, it is a theme that is quite ubiquitous in the gaming world. It is one that is consistently used in videogames where restoring normalcy to the game-world can only be achieved by defeating the ultimate boss.
Religion is certainly marginalized in videogames - you rarely ever find overt affiliation to any one religion. And when religion is used in games it is indeed shrouded in mythology or some abstract belief system that is loosely based on any mainstream religion.
Killer7 is a spectacular example of how religion is affronted in videogames ? exemplifying something that is rarely ever done in the gaming industry amidst fears of offending any potential market. Kudos.
Mr. Ahmed did a fantastic job of achieving his goal of dealing a touchy subject.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Rae Obasare:
You are too kind. You sound like my mother. The article intended to be just a survey discussing the topic. It is far from 'immaculate'.
Thank you.
Dark Phantom:
Thank you.
Slartibartfast:
"Any book, game, movie, song, painting, etc. that is made solely to reinforce existing beliefs is a waste of time, space, and energy."
You aren't mincing words, and having re-read your post on a full stomach I wonder...how do you feel about Michelangelo's Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? Or Da Vinci's Last Supper? Or the David? Or the Ong Bak Buddhist statues of Thailand? Or John Donne's sonnets?
Rae Obasare:
You are too kind. You sound like my mother. The article intended to be just a survey discussing the topic. It is far from 'immaculate'.
Thank you.
Dark Phantom:
Thank you.
Slartibartfast:
"Any book, game, movie, song, painting, etc. that is made solely to reinforce existing beliefs is a waste of time, space, and energy."
You aren't mincing words, and having re-read your post on a full stomach I wonder...how do you feel about Michelangelo's Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? Or Da Vinci's Last Supper? Or the David? Or the Ong Bak Buddhist statues of Thailand? Or John Donne's sonnets?
Original Comment by: Olumide Edu
Hmmm...
I think you are being just a tad judgmental, Slartibartfast. Just because something is not art does make it a waste of time. You obviously have some negative feelings regarding religion and that is cool, but your statement that religious practices are primitive is just a perspective based assumption. Art should make you think but it should not be contradictory just for the sake of it unless it is just meaningless. What we consume plays a huge part in what we turn out to be and as a result people are cautious of what they consume. One person may look at a shockingly violent painting and see some kind of deeper meaning layered in while another may look at the same thing and throw up. I don't want go into cliché overload so I will just leave it at that. With religion it is somewhat similar. A lot religions view sex as a sacred thing. As something to be cherished, while others have a less restrictive view on it. I see them just as two separate views on the same thing. It sounds extremely archaic but is there anything really wrong with a person staying with another person for life. Note, I am not saying that you think that or don't. What I am saying is that it all comes down to perspective. It is a simple common idea but it is basically true. I am looking from over here and I can see this side of something and you are looking from there and can see the other side. These positions we are standing in are our beliefs and we all have them. A popular cliché goes thus, 'if you don't stand for something, you will fall for everything.' Our beliefs are our anchors from which we can observe life in relative safety. They serve as a point of reference from which we judge our situation and that of others and are a necessity. They affect the people we people. Your belief that religions are primitive represents this for you as do other things for different people (myself included). It is probably one of your many beliefs. Beliefs are basically just ideas that have roots dug in deeper. Still, they can be changed even if does take some effort.
Khurram: Regarding Lord of the Rings even after Frodo is taken away that doesn't mean that everything becomes perfect because we don't know. If you read previous Tolkein books you will find that even after Great evil number X is destroyed there are countless problems that still follow afterwards and it seems like that is likely in lord of the rings. Aragorn still has to unite mankind and he does it without the elves help, for example. I think it becomes normal but only in the way the real world is normal... which is the sucky way. That does not mean I disagree with your scapegoat theory or its use here, I just had a small issue with that assumption is all. I know I use this example a lot but what the heck. Kotor series surprised me regarding this. When you finish kotor with the light side story you kind of get the feeling that everything is honky dory and perfectly peachy but the second game threw a curve ball. Even though it assumes that the light side ending is what happened the galaxy is in worse shape that previously. All those ships built by the Star Forge didn't just magically disappear and the republic did not magically self heal after it was almost devastated by the Sith. There was a power vacuum left and everyone wanted a piece of it. This is one of the things that first struck me while moving from planet to planet. Things were really screwed up! (And I loved it). The game got to have its scapegoat and eat it too which is kind of like real life. Hitler was defeated but all the problems in the world just did not magically disappear. There were long lasting repercussions which is also what I would expect to happen in lotr.
And I think you will find that due localization most games stripped of their strong religious icons. I hear that if you play the Japanese version of FFVI for example there is a lot more religious stuff and even a homosexual relationship between two of he characters that were just 'friends' in the US one.
Anyway, I just want to thank you. You have given me something to think about as well as a fabulous idea for a game.
Hmmm...
I think you are being just a tad judgmental, Slartibartfast. Just because something is not art does make it a waste of time. You obviously have some negative feelings regarding religion and that is cool, but your statement that religious practices are primitive is just a perspective based assumption. Art should make you think but it should not be contradictory just for the sake of it unless it is just meaningless. What we consume plays a huge part in what we turn out to be and as a result people are cautious of what they consume. One person may look at a shockingly violent painting and see some kind of deeper meaning layered in while another may look at the same thing and throw up. I don't want go into cliché overload so I will just leave it at that. With religion it is somewhat similar. A lot religions view sex as a sacred thing. As something to be cherished, while others have a less restrictive view on it. I see them just as two separate views on the same thing. It sounds extremely archaic but is there anything really wrong with a person staying with another person for life. Note, I am not saying that you think that or don't. What I am saying is that it all comes down to perspective. It is a simple common idea but it is basically true. I am looking from over here and I can see this side of something and you are looking from there and can see the other side. These positions we are standing in are our beliefs and we all have them. A popular cliché goes thus, 'if you don't stand for something, you will fall for everything.' Our beliefs are our anchors from which we can observe life in relative safety. They serve as a point of reference from which we judge our situation and that of others and are a necessity. They affect the people we people. Your belief that religions are primitive represents this for you as do other things for different people (myself included). It is probably one of your many beliefs. Beliefs are basically just ideas that have roots dug in deeper. Still, they can be changed even if does take some effort.
Khurram: Regarding Lord of the Rings even after Frodo is taken away that doesn't mean that everything becomes perfect because we don't know. If you read previous Tolkein books you will find that even after Great evil number X is destroyed there are countless problems that still follow afterwards and it seems like that is likely in lord of the rings. Aragorn still has to unite mankind and he does it without the elves help, for example. I think it becomes normal but only in the way the real world is normal... which is the sucky way. That does not mean I disagree with your scapegoat theory or its use here, I just had a small issue with that assumption is all. I know I use this example a lot but what the heck. Kotor series surprised me regarding this. When you finish kotor with the light side story you kind of get the feeling that everything is honky dory and perfectly peachy but the second game threw a curve ball. Even though it assumes that the light side ending is what happened the galaxy is in worse shape that previously. All those ships built by the Star Forge didn't just magically disappear and the republic did not magically self heal after it was almost devastated by the Sith. There was a power vacuum left and everyone wanted a piece of it. This is one of the things that first struck me while moving from planet to planet. Things were really screwed up! (And I loved it). The game got to have its scapegoat and eat it too which is kind of like real life. Hitler was defeated but all the problems in the world just did not magically disappear. There were long lasting repercussions which is also what I would expect to happen in lotr.
And I think you will find that due localization most games stripped of their strong religious icons. I hear that if you play the Japanese version of FFVI for example there is a lot more religious stuff and even a homosexual relationship between two of he characters that were just 'friends' in the US one.
Anyway, I just want to thank you. You have given me something to think about as well as a fabulous idea for a game.
Original Comment by: Mark
I think one of the biggest problems with religion in video games is that in virtually every instance where overt religion exists in a non-trivial way, it's A) an obvious and unflattering duplicate of a major real-world religion, B) its members are frequently portrayed as brainwashed (though usually this is a failing of the presentation of NPCs than of the religions element), and C) it's secretly run by the very entity it calls evil. Meanwhile, the small, ancient, deeply spiritual (as opposed to canonical) religion whose followers are widely regarded to be nujobs is not only good, but empirically correct.
I'm an atheist, but I appreciate the literary value of mythological and religious elements in literature. Thus far I haven't seen a presentation of religion in a video game that was both substantial and realistic (or unbiased, or whatever). And it annoys me.
I think one of the biggest problems with religion in video games is that in virtually every instance where overt religion exists in a non-trivial way, it's A) an obvious and unflattering duplicate of a major real-world religion, B) its members are frequently portrayed as brainwashed (though usually this is a failing of the presentation of NPCs than of the religions element), and C) it's secretly run by the very entity it calls evil. Meanwhile, the small, ancient, deeply spiritual (as opposed to canonical) religion whose followers are widely regarded to be nujobs is not only good, but empirically correct.
I'm an atheist, but I appreciate the literary value of mythological and religious elements in literature. Thus far I haven't seen a presentation of religion in a video game that was both substantial and realistic (or unbiased, or whatever). And it annoys me.
Original Comment by: Voxaryx
http://360.yahoo.com/icecreamsuit
The fundamental problem with this article is an underlying assumption which Khurram makes glaringly obvious without ever quite stating it outright; in his mind, religion = Christianity. Not to knock Christianity, but there are a few other kids on the block. There is brief mention of mosques (Islam) and synagogues (Judaism), which are precursor/parallel religions to Christianity. In fact, the single allusion to a non-Western faith I was able to find in the entire article was the words Hindu and Bindi on page 23. This is problematic, considering there are billions of people in the world who follow faith systems other than Christianity, Islam or Judaism. In fact, after mulling the article over for a couple hours, I came to the realization that all the games in existance can be divided into two groups: Eastern and Western. To generalize, Western games are those produced in North America or Europe, while Eastern games come from Japan, China, and Korea.. By dividing games this way, one can see the crucial difference; games produced in the East are much more likely to contain religious elements/themes. Let's look at the games Khurram mentioned in the article, just for kicks:
Western
------------
*Earthworm Jim
Populous
Black & White
Project Gotham Racing 3
Sim City
The Sims
Second Life
GTA: San Andreas
*God of War
Messiah
Doom
Eastern
-----------
*Sonic
*Megaman
*Link/Zelda
*Metroid
*Street Fighter
*Mario Brothers
Doshin the Giant
Final Fantasy
*Shadow of the Colossus
*Tales of Symphonia
*Killer 7
*Katamari Damacy
For your convenience, I highlighted the games which I believe Khurram spoke of as having a positive inclusion of religion. Notice anything? The only two Western games which meet with his approval are Earthworm Jim and God of War. The link between Earthworm Jim and religion are laughably tenuous; God of War, on the other hand, is indeed an excellent example of the inclusion of religious themes into a game. Greek mythology has been a constant source of inspiration for Western writers ever since the time of the Greeks. However, the Greeks can also be blamed for our current problem of games lacking religion, a problem which the author mistakenly lays at the feet of game developers. Don't blame them, blame the culture they grew up in. For that, blame the Greeks, the ones who started it all.
At one time, religion and theatre were one and the same. The Bacchanalia, celebrations of the god Dionysus, centered around festivals which were essentially drunken orgies. Over time, they became more structured, skits were performed involving Dionysus, and eventually entire plays were created and put on during the festivals. It reached a point where the drunken orgies stopped, but the plays remained. Theatre had been born, as a separate entity from religious celebrations. This tradition continued into the Roman empire, growing ever farther from its religious roots. Christianity embraced theatre along with many other things when it became the official religion of Rome, and later of all Europe. For a while, Passion plays were all the rage in Europe. Eventually, all good things must come to an end, and around the time of Shakespeare the church banned plays altogether, citing them as a source of moral filth. Why so much talk about theatre, you ask? I discuss it because theatre became the entertainment of the masses, and in the past century it evolved into moving pictures, television, and movies as we know them today. Then, in the past two decades, the video game industry was born and has grown by leaps and bounds, until now it threatens to dwarf the mighty money machine of Hollywood. Video games have become the entertainment medium of choice for a growing percentage of the Western world. However, religion was split from entertainment so very long ago that people growing up with this cultural heritage are finding it very hard to mash the two back together. (I think going back to the roots of wine and orgies would help a lot in this process, but who listens to me?) Most often, as Khurram pointed out, Western developers find it easier to use traditional mythos, such as the Greek pantheon, rather than wrestle with the modern behemoth of Christianity. Nobody cares if you fudge a bit on the legends of Zeus and his gang; mess with Jesus, and you mess with a very vocal and powerful group of people.
In the East, so far as I can tell, this isn't even an issue. I am by no means an expert on Oriental culture, so please forgive any errors on my part. So far as I can tell, religion and theatre were intertwined in the beginning, as in the West. In the East, however, they managed to stay together, simple as that. No separation of church and state (well, except perhaps for Chairman Mao and that fantastic Cultural Revolution). The East is predominantly a polytheistic culture. The notion of spirits and demi-gods scampering all over the place is, if not necessarily believe by all, not an unfamiliar notion. In fact (according to my Eastern Religions prof) it was at one point (and perhaps still is) fairly common for Japanese to transition between religions in different phases of life. With Hinduism, Folk Religion, Taoism, Buddhism, Juche, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto, Cao Dai, Zoroastrianism, and Tenrikyo to pick from (and those are just the major ones, with devotees numbered in the millions), there is no shortage of options. Many of these religions/life philosophies are rife with stories and mythology. In fact, there often exist multiple versions of the same stories, either within one faith system or scattered among many; and this is not seen as a problem. As one Buddhist monk told me, a person could dedicate their entire life to reading every single Buddhist holy book through once, and that person would die before ever coming close to completing the task.
For those developers, religion is not something sequestered to a weekly event on a weekend morning; religion is an inescapable part of their culture. Is it any wonder, then, that the vast majority of games coming from the East are rife with spirituality? Blending religion with video games is not a new task to be accomplished for them. Western developers need to learn that spiritual themes are not something to be crudely tacked on after the fact; they should be built right into the games, a part of the fundamental assumptions of the designers and writers. Putting religion into a game is not about sticking religious iconography all over the walls of every game level, or shooting demons with shotguns. It's about looking around and seeing a world controlled by spirits both large and small, charitable and malevolent, dependable and capricious, and then creating a virtual world with those same underpinnings. If the person who sits down to play accepts the spiritual mechanics of the game without question, success has been achieved.
I am currently playing (and greatly enjoying!) Shadow of the Colossus. In it, a boy has come to the temple of a powerful being, to have it bring back the soul of his dead companion. He sees a light come from on high, hears a mighty voice, and obeys it without question. He hunts down the colossi one by one, confident that his spiritual sword will give him the necessary strength and skill to accomplish the task before him. He does not need to say it, for the truth of the matter is evident in his every action; he has faith. By extension, via the controller in my hand that links us together, so do I.
http://360.yahoo.com/icecreamsuit
The fundamental problem with this article is an underlying assumption which Khurram makes glaringly obvious without ever quite stating it outright; in his mind, religion = Christianity. Not to knock Christianity, but there are a few other kids on the block. There is brief mention of mosques (Islam) and synagogues (Judaism), which are precursor/parallel religions to Christianity. In fact, the single allusion to a non-Western faith I was able to find in the entire article was the words Hindu and Bindi on page 23. This is problematic, considering there are billions of people in the world who follow faith systems other than Christianity, Islam or Judaism. In fact, after mulling the article over for a couple hours, I came to the realization that all the games in existance can be divided into two groups: Eastern and Western. To generalize, Western games are those produced in North America or Europe, while Eastern games come from Japan, China, and Korea.. By dividing games this way, one can see the crucial difference; games produced in the East are much more likely to contain religious elements/themes. Let's look at the games Khurram mentioned in the article, just for kicks:
Western
------------
*Earthworm Jim
Populous
Black & White
Project Gotham Racing 3
Sim City
The Sims
Second Life
GTA: San Andreas
*God of War
Messiah
Doom
Eastern
-----------
*Sonic
*Megaman
*Link/Zelda
*Metroid
*Street Fighter
*Mario Brothers
Doshin the Giant
Final Fantasy
*Shadow of the Colossus
*Tales of Symphonia
*Killer 7
*Katamari Damacy
For your convenience, I highlighted the games which I believe Khurram spoke of as having a positive inclusion of religion. Notice anything? The only two Western games which meet with his approval are Earthworm Jim and God of War. The link between Earthworm Jim and religion are laughably tenuous; God of War, on the other hand, is indeed an excellent example of the inclusion of religious themes into a game. Greek mythology has been a constant source of inspiration for Western writers ever since the time of the Greeks. However, the Greeks can also be blamed for our current problem of games lacking religion, a problem which the author mistakenly lays at the feet of game developers. Don't blame them, blame the culture they grew up in. For that, blame the Greeks, the ones who started it all.
At one time, religion and theatre were one and the same. The Bacchanalia, celebrations of the god Dionysus, centered around festivals which were essentially drunken orgies. Over time, they became more structured, skits were performed involving Dionysus, and eventually entire plays were created and put on during the festivals. It reached a point where the drunken orgies stopped, but the plays remained. Theatre had been born, as a separate entity from religious celebrations. This tradition continued into the Roman empire, growing ever farther from its religious roots. Christianity embraced theatre along with many other things when it became the official religion of Rome, and later of all Europe. For a while, Passion plays were all the rage in Europe. Eventually, all good things must come to an end, and around the time of Shakespeare the church banned plays altogether, citing them as a source of moral filth. Why so much talk about theatre, you ask? I discuss it because theatre became the entertainment of the masses, and in the past century it evolved into moving pictures, television, and movies as we know them today. Then, in the past two decades, the video game industry was born and has grown by leaps and bounds, until now it threatens to dwarf the mighty money machine of Hollywood. Video games have become the entertainment medium of choice for a growing percentage of the Western world. However, religion was split from entertainment so very long ago that people growing up with this cultural heritage are finding it very hard to mash the two back together. (I think going back to the roots of wine and orgies would help a lot in this process, but who listens to me?) Most often, as Khurram pointed out, Western developers find it easier to use traditional mythos, such as the Greek pantheon, rather than wrestle with the modern behemoth of Christianity. Nobody cares if you fudge a bit on the legends of Zeus and his gang; mess with Jesus, and you mess with a very vocal and powerful group of people.
In the East, so far as I can tell, this isn't even an issue. I am by no means an expert on Oriental culture, so please forgive any errors on my part. So far as I can tell, religion and theatre were intertwined in the beginning, as in the West. In the East, however, they managed to stay together, simple as that. No separation of church and state (well, except perhaps for Chairman Mao and that fantastic Cultural Revolution). The East is predominantly a polytheistic culture. The notion of spirits and demi-gods scampering all over the place is, if not necessarily believe by all, not an unfamiliar notion. In fact (according to my Eastern Religions prof) it was at one point (and perhaps still is) fairly common for Japanese to transition between religions in different phases of life. With Hinduism, Folk Religion, Taoism, Buddhism, Juche, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto, Cao Dai, Zoroastrianism, and Tenrikyo to pick from (and those are just the major ones, with devotees numbered in the millions), there is no shortage of options. Many of these religions/life philosophies are rife with stories and mythology. In fact, there often exist multiple versions of the same stories, either within one faith system or scattered among many; and this is not seen as a problem. As one Buddhist monk told me, a person could dedicate their entire life to reading every single Buddhist holy book through once, and that person would die before ever coming close to completing the task.
For those developers, religion is not something sequestered to a weekly event on a weekend morning; religion is an inescapable part of their culture. Is it any wonder, then, that the vast majority of games coming from the East are rife with spirituality? Blending religion with video games is not a new task to be accomplished for them. Western developers need to learn that spiritual themes are not something to be crudely tacked on after the fact; they should be built right into the games, a part of the fundamental assumptions of the designers and writers. Putting religion into a game is not about sticking religious iconography all over the walls of every game level, or shooting demons with shotguns. It's about looking around and seeing a world controlled by spirits both large and small, charitable and malevolent, dependable and capricious, and then creating a virtual world with those same underpinnings. If the person who sits down to play accepts the spiritual mechanics of the game without question, success has been achieved.
I am currently playing (and greatly enjoying!) Shadow of the Colossus. In it, a boy has come to the temple of a powerful being, to have it bring back the soul of his dead companion. He sees a light come from on high, hears a mighty voice, and obeys it without question. He hunts down the colossi one by one, confident that his spiritual sword will give him the necessary strength and skill to accomplish the task before him. He does not need to say it, for the truth of the matter is evident in his every action; he has faith. By extension, via the controller in my hand that links us together, so do I.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Olumide Edu:
I?m sorry; I have to put my foot down. Most scapegoat narratives end with a clean, Utopian ending because they are trying to mimic life and keep an unambiguous ending.
In life, the scapegoat is kept alive, but at the fringes. He is not allowed to become a part of ?the society?, but because everyone can, in unison, label him an aberration, he defines the society. It?s a cyclical relationship. The society needs the scapegoat more than vice versa.
None of us can speculate as to what happens after the last word Tolkien wrote in ?Lord of the Rings?. Doing so is a cardinal offence as it ensures that we have a 50% chance of completely undermining the author?s intentions. Tolkien told the tale of the great conflict of the Third Age or Middle Earth, and chose to end it at a particular juncture. What we can safely conclude is that the conflict has been resolved and the world is on the mend. Why should we worry about Aragorn failing at uniting the world of man? We know he has the kingdom of Rodan wrapped around his finger.
KOTOR?s ending is only significant if there are hints and suggestions that the Light Path will backfire at resolution. If it?s a complete surprise, then it?s forced in as a novelty. Movies like the ?Sixth Sense? are praised as well told narratives because by the time we reach the end, we feel like maybe we should have known the truth all along.
Hitler?s fall is irrelevant. The parts of WWII waged along the Pacific Rim and South-East Asia, as well as emergence of Cold War politics was not in the least related to Hitler. Modern history has turned Hitler into an icon for the baddest futhamucka on Earth. Overly simplistic history and pop culture awareness of Hitler?s evil are trying to turn him into the single cause of the war. It?s simply not the case.
Your point on the localization alterations is valid. It was something I wanted to consider, but couldn?t find valid sources on the variations from territory to territory. And even if I could, someone could make the argument saying that the North American release is no less official, and is still part of the ?official code? and ?official text? of the original game.
Thanks for the feedback.
Olumide Edu:
I?m sorry; I have to put my foot down. Most scapegoat narratives end with a clean, Utopian ending because they are trying to mimic life and keep an unambiguous ending.
In life, the scapegoat is kept alive, but at the fringes. He is not allowed to become a part of ?the society?, but because everyone can, in unison, label him an aberration, he defines the society. It?s a cyclical relationship. The society needs the scapegoat more than vice versa.
None of us can speculate as to what happens after the last word Tolkien wrote in ?Lord of the Rings?. Doing so is a cardinal offence as it ensures that we have a 50% chance of completely undermining the author?s intentions. Tolkien told the tale of the great conflict of the Third Age or Middle Earth, and chose to end it at a particular juncture. What we can safely conclude is that the conflict has been resolved and the world is on the mend. Why should we worry about Aragorn failing at uniting the world of man? We know he has the kingdom of Rodan wrapped around his finger.
KOTOR?s ending is only significant if there are hints and suggestions that the Light Path will backfire at resolution. If it?s a complete surprise, then it?s forced in as a novelty. Movies like the ?Sixth Sense? are praised as well told narratives because by the time we reach the end, we feel like maybe we should have known the truth all along.
Hitler?s fall is irrelevant. The parts of WWII waged along the Pacific Rim and South-East Asia, as well as emergence of Cold War politics was not in the least related to Hitler. Modern history has turned Hitler into an icon for the baddest futhamucka on Earth. Overly simplistic history and pop culture awareness of Hitler?s evil are trying to turn him into the single cause of the war. It?s simply not the case.
Your point on the localization alterations is valid. It was something I wanted to consider, but couldn?t find valid sources on the variations from territory to territory. And even if I could, someone could make the argument saying that the North American release is no less official, and is still part of the ?official code? and ?official text? of the original game.
Thanks for the feedback.
Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed
Mark:
Your three bullet points on how games tend to deal with a ?non-trivial? mythos typify precisely what makes those mythoi trivial; especially the third point. That?s a pet peeve. I don?t mind designers developing a mythology by borrowing from existing material so long as they use it adequately to flesh out their game world. The problem of poorly-conceived NPCs has largely been a memory issue until fairly recently, so I?ve been a little tolerant on that front.
I?m sad to hear you haven?t found a single title that uses a developed mythology. I tried to make mention of three games in the article, and a couple more have popped up in the feedback here. Apparently, Xenogears on the PS1 is gold.
Voxaryx:
I appreciate your thoughts, even though you didn?t paragraph well.
I don?t think I focused any more heavily on Christianity than designers do. I forced to allude to Christianity because I had no choice. Doom invokes an image of Christian hell. The angels depicted in videogames look remarkably like the ones in Christian iconography. I tried my best to keep the discussion non-denominational, but I?m not Superwoman.
Your criticism, however, is not compelling for other reasons. Why are you counting Christianity, Judaism and Islam as Western religions?
Also, saying all games can be divided into ?Western? and ?Eastern? is as fruitless as dividing them into ?Anime? and ?Not Anime?. What makes Gran Turismo intrinsically Eastern? Or Mario for that matter, a global icon as widely-recognized in either hemisphere? Simply, many games are neither Eastern nor Western regardless of where they were produced. I?m glad your list proved me to be pretty balanced, however.
The highlighting in your list, though, left much to be desired. The list I cited as titles that employ a scapegoat narrative is not one that necessarily uses religion and mythology in a favorable way.
I?m no stranger to Greek history and theatre. You?ll notice I threw in a mention of Sophocles towards the end. That wasn?t an accident. You are underestimating the importance of the ritual. Our rituals separate us from the animals.
It?s a long argument, but look up Claude Levi-Strauss and more importantly Rene Girard.
Mark:
Your three bullet points on how games tend to deal with a ?non-trivial? mythos typify precisely what makes those mythoi trivial; especially the third point. That?s a pet peeve. I don?t mind designers developing a mythology by borrowing from existing material so long as they use it adequately to flesh out their game world. The problem of poorly-conceived NPCs has largely been a memory issue until fairly recently, so I?ve been a little tolerant on that front.
I?m sad to hear you haven?t found a single title that uses a developed mythology. I tried to make mention of three games in the article, and a couple more have popped up in the feedback here. Apparently, Xenogears on the PS1 is gold.
Voxaryx:
I appreciate your thoughts, even though you didn?t paragraph well.
I don?t think I focused any more heavily on Christianity than designers do. I forced to allude to Christianity because I had no choice. Doom invokes an image of Christian hell. The angels depicted in videogames look remarkably like the ones in Christian iconography. I tried my best to keep the discussion non-denominational, but I?m not Superwoman.
Your criticism, however, is not compelling for other reasons. Why are you counting Christianity, Judaism and Islam as Western religions?
Also, saying all games can be divided into ?Western? and ?Eastern? is as fruitless as dividing them into ?Anime? and ?Not Anime?. What makes Gran Turismo intrinsically Eastern? Or Mario for that matter, a global icon as widely-recognized in either hemisphere? Simply, many games are neither Eastern nor Western regardless of where they were produced. I?m glad your list proved me to be pretty balanced, however.
The highlighting in your list, though, left much to be desired. The list I cited as titles that employ a scapegoat narrative is not one that necessarily uses religion and mythology in a favorable way.
I?m no stranger to Greek history and theatre. You?ll notice I threw in a mention of Sophocles towards the end. That wasn?t an accident. You are underestimating the importance of the ritual. Our rituals separate us from the animals.
It?s a long argument, but look up Claude Levi-Strauss and more importantly Rene Girard.