Issue 29: Extra - Making the Sacrifice

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Olumide Edu

Khurram: Ok ouch...

I am not exactly a scholar or philosopher by any stretch of the imagination. I am merely and artist so maybe I don't fully understand this scapegoat theory of yours, but I don't think I said anything that goes against theory. In both kotor and lotr, you have this figure head bad guy that is blamed for everything and is taken down. Where my problem comes is the Utopia part. It is my understanding that Utopia is some kind of perfect world where everything goes right. I just had issue with that regarding lotr because given Tolkeins style that just seems too unlikely. It is certainly applicable in many stories and situations but not all. You told me not to speculate as to what happens afterwards but even upon finishing the third book I never got the impression of it being any kind of utopia. Things became better but there were a lot of pesky problems that still remained. It has been a while so forgive me if I am wrong, but I can't remember a single area or a single perfect thing that did not become tarnished over time, or that did not get destroyed. I mean the world had gotten to the stage where it was too much for the elves to bare and they had to leave. Of course, if I am not mistaken, the classic Utopia on which the word is based was some kind of facade or something to that effect, so perhaps that is it. It all just seemed like Tolkein was setting things up so that it would resemble a situation like our own. All otherworldly elements systematically removed (save for the hobbits) and man is left to forge his own destiny. In kotor it is similar in that this is Star Wars. If you only real experience with before hand was the movies, like me, you would expect that things would start an upswing up defeat of the main dark side avatar. However, what you find is that things took an almost immediate down turn downwards. The scapegoat theory is still applicable most certainly even in the second one. In kotor 2, Malak, the baddie in the first one is gone, and people realizing that things are still the same turn their attentions elsewhere, look for another one. Some settle on the hero of the first game, some blame the jedi/sith as a whole, some blame the republic, and the Jedi, well the Jedi blame what they always do, which is the dark side. I have no problem with the scapegoat theory, just the idea of instant utopia returning in several instances of it.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed

Olumide Edu:

I'm sorry if I came across a little abrasive in my first post.

The original story of Utopia was written and related as satrical commentary on what was wrong with the world by describing an ideal situation, and suggesting how attainable it is on some levels. My usage meant only to invoke the common meaning today of 'a perfect world'.

I see your point. Perhaps I was unclear.

But I hope you appreciate that there are many circumstances where even when the transformation into a Utopia isn't immediate, the seeds are sown. The foreseeable future is a properous and peaceful one. In such cases, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that a perfect world is coming to order.

Thanks again for helping me understand.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Ian

I would also like to mention another game with notable religious and spiritual element interwoven into the story: the first Alundra game for the PS1. Definitively worth a play through, if not for its relevance here, then because it's an excellent game in its own right.

I would also like to commend the author for this exceptional article and another great topic to ponder and discuss.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Voxaryx

First, my apologies for referring to you as "him" or "his", if in fact you are female (as I would deduce from your "I'm not Superwoman" comment. I was going by the little blurb at the end of your original article. I hope no offense was taken. If you are a guy, than nevermind this paragraph.

Secondly, I hope I didn't come on too harshly. I wrote my comments in the middle of the night, right after returning home from a shift at work, so I was just hoping to get my thoughts together before I went to sleep and forgot. Your article was obviously very thought-provoking, and I agree with a portion of what you have to say.

However, I feel it necessary to defend my original idea of Eastern vs. Western development. Hopefully I can back it up with a bit more concrete evidence. The best way I can think of doing that is by looking at specific examples, as has already been done by yourself and a lot of other people who've commented.

Sports games: you've mentioned Project Gotham Racing 3, and Gran Turismo. I don't think the East/West division applies to sports games (which I see as including racing, fishing, hunting, as well as the various -ball's). However, it's interesting to note that a vast majority of sports games are Western, likely due to sports being much more prevalent in North American culture.

Fighting games: This is a bit tricky, due to a lack of Western fighting games. The only two I can think of are the venerable FX Fighter and One Must Fall 2097. Compare them to the Eastern-developed Mortal Kombat, which was popular around the same time. FXF and OMF both had science-fictiony universes, whereas ML had a mythos of master fighter beings from Upper Planes (or something like that. I never really played MK). As a more recent Eastern example, Dead or Alive 2 had a fight against a local spirit being (a Tengu, I believe) as the "boss" fight, something probably cribbed from a Japanese folk religion.

FPS: I actually can't even think of a single Eastern FPS, though there certainly must be some. However, in terms of the Western FPS games, they are overwhelmingly either modern or futuristic sci-fi settings (like the fighting games). Halo and Half-life 1/2 spring to mind.

RTS: Again, the Western RTS games are overwhelmingly modern or science-fictiony in setting. The closest thing to religion I can think of are the priests and mages in Warcraft, but that's pretty typical fantasy gaming fare.

Actually, I'm going to stop with the genre comparisons, because something else is occuring to me. The majority of examples of religion/mythology in games are found in the action/adventure and the role playing games categories. In either case, the Eastern games are significantly more likely to have spritual elements. RPG's seem to be Japan's big thing, and I think anyone would be hard-pressed to find a single one that doesn't have spiritual elements. Their theologies and mythologies are usually created by the developers themselves. On the Western side, there are far less examples of religion included. Again, there is the prevalence of science and science fiction (Fallout springs to mind as a classic Western RPG). If there *is* a mythology, it is usually cribbed from Greek/Roman sources (God of War), Babylonian (Septerra Core), or some other long-dead faith system.

In fact, the sole major example of a Western mythology in video games is found in anything based on Dungeons & Dragons. This is problematic, though, because 1) D&D is originally a pen&paper product, not a video game original, and 2) the D&D mythology is essentially a compilation of every religion known to man. It works, though. I have played some excellent Neverwinter Nights modules where faith/religion played a significant role in the story. However, it is very interesting to note that this was in fan-created modules, not the official shipped campaign.

Why? As I said before, because of culture. A game created in the West, for the West, will usually avoid any stong religious elements. Why? Because it's such a touchy subject, and a lot of people are likely to get offended. In the East, that's not a problem, because as I said before it is a culture that is accustomed to a prevalence of multiple conflicting faith systems.

I'd like to say more, but I have to leave for work. I hope this all makes sense.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed

Voxaryx:

Just to be clear, I'm a guy. Sorry for the confusion, the Superwoman comment is something I say when people make unreasonable requests.

Your genre by genre breakdown had me struggling, especially because I only got as far as one-on-one fighting when you mentioned Mortal Kombat. MK is American. Ed Boon and John Tobias of Midway created the first three games together before one of them left and the other carried on. Also, let's not forget on the subject of sports games how huge soccer, rugby and cricket games across the world.

The second half of your post is compelling. Interesting idea we could definitely spend more time on and maybe come to significant conclusions. I don't like the D&D example, however, specifically because it has this very long history separate and apart from videogames. I am much more interested in mythologies developed specifically for videogames.

RPGs are generally an Eastern genre. Western RPGs being successful is a fairly new phenomenon. And developers becoming recognized for their work in the genre is even newer. We see Bioware and Bethsheda now as having a pedigree for producing Western-styled RPGs - whatever that may entail.

I hope you finish your thoughts. You have my attention.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Ian

Voxaryx: While I understand what you are saying in your post, I feel the need to clarify a few points:

Firstly, Mortal Kombat is most definitively not an "eastern" game, as the series was developed by Chicago-based Midway Games. However, I do believe that this genre is a bit one-sided, as the genre that we consider to be "fighting" today is one that was spawned from east asian martial art forms, as opposed to the western fighting styles of boxing and wrestling, which I suppose fall under the umbrella of "sport" games. What we would consider to be "western" fighting games seek to emulate the style of the eastern; in essence there are no "western-style" fighting games that I know of.

Similarly, the western has defined the FPS genre; the closest things I can think of that would be considered "eastern" are light-gun games such as Time Crisis and House of the Dead. Also on the topic of FPS games, you're overlooking the WWII market that seems to dominate the current genre.

RTS games I believe run the gamut from ancient to futuristic. I can't seem to recall much in the way of a modern setting, with the majority composing of medieval fantasy (Warcraft) and futuristic (Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Command and Conquer), with a bit of historical (the Total War series, Age of Empires). Going back to the subject at hand, however, it is genres like this where your theory doesn't quite apply, as the RTS genre cannot quite be considered "western" because there is no "eastern" counterexample.

Still, a strong correlation does remain between eastern games and games that breach the subject of religion and spirituality in an integrating and meaningful way does seem to exist, and that is an interesting observation.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Patrick Dugan
http://www.kingludic.blogspot.com
I've got a storyworld idea that is steeped in religion and the occult, the whole themology is religous in fact. Mages vs. Paladins, Swords to Satanists.

Whats your take on that? Will I be alienating a Christian audience if casting spells involves evoking pentagrams? I'd like to appeal to Christians, Pagans, Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, the whole lot of them. I want to explore why religion drives people to kill and live, but keep it open enough that people can find their belief's ultimately edified.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: parkbench

I'm going to have to agree with Slartibartfast. It's ostensibly an issue, and while for perhaps historical accuracy games should include religion, I still think it's good that they're 'egregiously' absent.

Religion does more good than harm? While I'll avoid the obvious 'religious warring/fanaticism" point, from a psychological point of view, and mode of thinking or set of beliefs which will have you routinely reject logic is a crutch. Any mode of thinking which would never hold up, ever, in any scientific sense, and which would have Occam rolling his grave becasue people actually think it's the 'simple' answer, is unhealthy. It speaks of who someone is as a person. Granted--'smart' people can be religious. Obviously. But I would just argue that in regards to superstition, they aren't *smart enough*.

I'm surprised you didn't mention PC games like Planescape Torment and such which actually deal with this fairly well. But religion wouldn't change this 'Utopian ending' you so deride. In fact, it would do the *opposite*. The religious tale, even if down to earth, would lead to an ultimately 'Deus Ex Machina' ending, and nothing is solved.

I think people get the issue confused. Yes, religion has affected us since 'forever,' yes the culture of religion and even religious concepts bleed into all forms of art and entertainment today. So what? If there's a trend of secularism, let it be. Society will ideally do away with superstition one day. Sure, it'll go down kicking and screaming, because it *is* ultimately comforting. Sure, vices will always exist. But hopefully it could be one less that humanity has to worry about?

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: parkbench

Post Script: despite all the criticism, glad the article was made to fuel debate.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed

Patrick Dugan:

I will assume that your addresses me.

You can’t please everyone.

I suggest pursuing your vision, and allowing the story to take you where it takes you. I believe games like ‘Messiah’ and movies like ‘Dogma’ tried too hard and failed as a result. It was as if they were trying to get a rise out of gamers and the general population.

The most vocal group in cyberspace that tries to promote like-minded purchases in their fellow gamer, is the Christians. Plug ‘Christian game review’ into Google and see what pops up. You’ll see what these people are looking for in their games.

I recommend looking up a universally praised title like ‘Resident Evil 4’ and comparing the reviews with the readers’ comments on the review and the game. Regardless how developers and publishers are chastised throughout the review, the truly excellent games tend to be embraced regardless of their questionable content.

I’m sure mention of incest and Satan-worship will send up red flags. But, I liked ‘Killer7’.

Trying to please everyone will undoubtedly leave your work watered-down, neither here nor there. It will seem the result of a boardroom meeting, and not an individual’s artistic explosion.

I’ve received a fair amount of feedback on this article, and what’s glaringly obvious is that this people enjoy deep and involving experiences. To a large extent designers have been supplying that without deep religion and spirituality, and I beg to ask where we’ll be able to take the medium with those incorporated.

Parkbench:

I don’t know if I agree. I have a problem with people saying religion is superstition. Believing something beyond the tangible isn’t necessarily superstition. It’s just annoying hearing people cop out, and use the term Mother Nature, referring to this universal higher power, and dodging the use of ‘God’. Just because you believe religion to be somewhat ‘unhealthy’ and ‘a crutch’, does not discount what it does for billions of people every day. And games should do a better job of recognizing it.

I’m not big on PC gaming, I’ll admit. I’m sure a few titles passed me by as a result.

You make an interesting point regarding the value of secularism. I just wanted to explore why religion is largely absent from videogames and how it is dealt with when it is explored.

P.S.>> Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the compliments.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: zorniki
http://zorniki.heim.at/Hochzeit
For me "Shenmue" has always been and probably will always be (by just judging from the production values - ahh that´d be too cheap!) the most complete incarnation of a "real-life-simulation" combining both npc interactions and character progression on different levels. And, which lead me to this response, the complete inclusion of religious artefacts as well as rituals in a japanese household of the late 90s (I might be wrong though, as I´m a catholic with not too much knowledge of the shinto religion) did work really well for. Overall the feel of the typical japanese everyday life was astonishing for me. I also remember showing the game to a friend from Japan who´s been living in Austria for a while and he could perfectly recall all the spots of the in game world in real life suburban Tokyo and the exterior as well as the interior of all the houses.

Shenmue is still an unsurpassed gaming experience everyone should at least have tried. I miss the Dreamcast era, I have to admit :´-(!

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Slartibartfast

I don't time time atm to go through all the posts I missed (I only check this site during the week, not the weekend), but I wanted to reply quickly to a few things I noticed.

To whomever mentioned the sistine chapel et al:

Surely these are "great" works in terms of the scale and technical achievement, but that does not make them artistically great. In the olympics, many gymnastic/performance type sports have a scoring system wherein the participants are scored for their technical abilities (can they do things correctly) and for the artistic expression (was it evocative). You can apply the same thing to almost any form of art (Dream Theater may be an excellent band in terms of musicianship but I still think their music/lyrics are vapid).

I agree wholeheartedly that religion is a crutch. In one of my western religion classes, the professor asked how many people were catholic. 99% said they were. When asked why, they almost invariably responded with "because that's what I was taught." I would bet that 99% of people who belong to a major religion only do so because that's what they were taught, and I find this astounding. People are raised christian (or whatever), grow up surrounded by it, and then reach adulthood still believeing that it's all 100% completely true, and they cannot accept the fact that had they grown up somewhere else, they would believe something different was 100% true. Look at it this way: your brain likes to take shortcuts. In his "A Theory of Fun" Raph Koster spends a lot of time talking about the way your brain chunks up information in order to put certain tasks on automatic. The example he uses is a good one: if I asked you what you did when you got up today, you would say something like "oh I took a shower, got dressed, had breakfast." But when pressed for details you would have no idea: "what leg did you put in your pants first? Did you put your first shirt button in on the first try or did you have to fumble around? Where was the milk in the fridge?" Most of us would have no idea, because our brain puts these activities on automatic, so they do not require conscious thought. Religion works the same way: it provides people with a definite set of answers to important questions about life, the universe, morality, etc., so they no longer need to think of them. I mean holy crap, there are still people who think homosexuality is a sin! I mean, how primitive is that!? To identify a group as being evil and damned because they're different? Religion lets you put part of your brain on autopilot so you don't need to ask questions. That's the way our brains work, it's a survival trait. As such, I say it's primitive.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Voxaryx

It's been two long, busy days for me since I last commented, so I'm hoping that I can pick up the mental threads where I left them. I'm doing this for you, Khurram, since you said I have your attention.

I think we can pretty much all agree that the two major "genres" where religion/spirituality can and sometimes does play a major role are adventure and roleplaying games. These are the two genres where the story can play a major role, rather than being relegated to window-dressing, an excuse for the action and carnage to ensue in RTS/FPS/Action platformers, etc. The story is the all-important factor.

Theologies. Why does a game need them? In the real world, theologies developed out of the stories people told each other to explain the world around them. Myth is just a word to describe a story that, which perhaps not literally factual, contains an essential truth about then way the world works. Perhaps we now find the idea of storms and volcanoes being caused by angry spirits to be a quaint notion, but there are still people out there who ascribe acts of nature to a deity punishing people for various misbehaviours.

The thing is, in a video game, there is no explicit need for myth. We *know* why the sun rises and sets, why ammunition always reappears after it's picked up, why there's always gold to be found in the barrels. Why? Because it's programmed that way! We have seen God, and It is simply people like us, sitting in cubicles in front of keyboards and monitors. So obviously, the videogame doesn't need a theology to explain why its world works. However, if the player is thinking about this while playing the game, there is a problem; Total immersion in the game world has not been achieved. In roleplaying and adventure games, that immersion is in large part provided by the story; the legends of the fictional world and the exploits of its people.

At this point, I would like to apologize for my genre comparisons. I should have just deleted them when I realized they weren't getting me anywhere. However, they did serve to bring something to my attention, something which I emphasized, but I believe needs even more emphasis; The proliferation of technical and science-fiction themes in Western games. As people seem to have been discussing in a parallel conversation in these comments, science has gone a long way towards abolishing religion. Science is about explaining how the world works; Theology serves to explain that which is otherwise inexplicable. The more science can explain, the less need there is for theology, and therefore religion.

I won't get into a science vs. religion argument, since that's usually fruitless. The fact of the matter is, the West is much more of a scientific, rational culture. Not to say people in the East are irrational or stupid, it's just that they've joined the scientific revolution rather late in the game. In a couple more generations, Eastern and Western video games will come to resemble one another more and more, as Eastern and Western culture grow more similar.

Until then, though, Eastern writers/designers have it easy. There is a multitude of theology existant in the cultural consciousness, which they can crib from or allude to to create a believable in-game theology. Since the players and designers share the culture, not all the details need to be made explicit in the game itself; players can fill in the gaps, or create explanations, from their own cultural knowledge.

Designers and players in the West don't have it so easy. There are four major options open, three of which I have already discussed. By using Greek, Babylonian, or other ancient religions, designers have a lot of their work already done for them. Then there is the Dungeons & Dragons mythos, which sad to say is perhaps now more well-known than Greek/Roman mythology. There is also the option of using Christianity, the prevalent religion in the West. Like I said, though, there's a very large potential for people to be offended and stir up controversy and bad publicity for your game. That's why Christian games are, and likely always will be, an inferior niche product, made by and for those with the faith.

That leaves designers with one other option, the one you (Khurram) seem to really want, and that is for them to create their own theology from scratch. I say it's never going to happen in the West. Why? Let me explain.

I have been racking my brain for Western-developed theologies in video-games, and all I've come up with so far is the Myst mythos. If you dig deep enough (or simply read a couple interviews with the Miller brothers) you'll realize the Myst mythology is based on Christian theological principles, similarly to the way Tolkein patterened the LOTR book(s) on Christian theology, albeit often well-hidden. It's interesting to note that there were also several books written (also by the Miller brothers) set in the Myst universe. Myst was heavily story-driven.

Therein is the key to the problem, the great barrier to creating a theology. For a well-developed theology to exist and be believable, it must be part of a cultural heritage. If a writer/developer is going to create a theology, they must also create a culture to go with it, or the theology will exist in a void. This necessitates a *lot* of backstory, which must be transmitted via text on-screen (Hey, everyone who loves reading those books in-game in NWN or the Ultima series, raise your hand! Anyone?), or through interminable, badly-voice-acted cutscenes. Or perhaps the game designers will release compain novels, which prospective players must purchase and read in order to appreciate and enjoy the game. Somehow, I don't see that happening.

The solution? Science! Everybody knows about science, and it's pretty easy to understand, isn't it? Scientists wear lab coats, and play with vials full of coloured liquids. When they screw up, voila, mutants to kill! And in the future, everybody knows that we'll wear shiny spacesuits and carry big guns and fly around the universe killing nasty aliens. Ok, so I exaggerate. In essence, that is the solution that's been working for Western developers. You can explain strange occurances in your universe via gods/spirits, or via aliens and distortions in the space/time continuum. In the West, it seems that the latter usually wins out. Hence the proliferation of science-fiction themed video-games in the West since the very beginning. I mean, heck, what was the first video game? If you answered Pong, bzzt, incorrect! If you do your research, you'll find out it was a primitive version of Asteroids. A spaceship, shooting rocks and aliens. I think this pretty much sums up the past, present, and future of theology in Western video games. Sorry, Khurram. If you're looking for a good theology, I suggest you pick up a good book.

And now I'm *really* late for class.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed

Zorniki:

Help me out. If what I?ve picked up about the Shinto faith is true, there?s angel and demon figures everywhere ? among us at all times. As a self-proclaimed Catholic, does the mythology the game endorses ever get in your way?

Or what about any other game, for that matter?

Slartibartfast:

We?re already in a semantics quagmire, so I?ll continue the trudging.

On what grounds are you saying the Sistine Chapel isn?t ?evocative?? The magnificence of the Sistine Chapel?s ceiling is legendary today, as is ?The Last Supper?. These works of art have become embedded in our global culture, not because of what they mean to Catholics, or even Christians?it?s because they have taken on a secular value, as well.

You are being very unfair to these pieces.

They must be artistically great. They must be valuable to us as human beings. They are icons of the marks our species will leave on this Earth. I would explain more, but I?m on the verge of spoiling my next Escapist article.

And regarding the absurdity of identifying ?a group as being evil and damned because they are different??it happens every single day to billion of people around the world. We still have ethnic cleansing, genocide and the ubiquitous racism. But by the way, identifying the other and drawing pejorative distinctions has its benefits, like the scapegoat theory.

Voxaryx:

I appreciate your focus on RPGs and adventure games. This is precisely why I focused on games from other genres in my article. I wanted to hammer the point home that mythologies can be developed in titles that aren?t story-intensive. Again, props to God of War, Killer7 and Katamari Damacy. And then, of course, games like Deus Ex that I didn?t even get a chance to mention.

Games have the power to make understand the human condition, like any other art. As such, I don?t expect religion and mythology because there is an ?explicit need for them?. I expect such themes because of what they mean to us as human beings.

I?m also wondering at what point, ?total immersion? in a game occurs. There are times playing Ikaruga that feel like I?m acting completely on impulse. It feels like I?m acting faster than my mind can process what is happening. And watching a video of Ikaruga being played gives me a similar feeling. ?LoZ: Majora?s Mask? brought me closer to crying than any other videogame. Heck, maybe I cried and won?t admit it. Was that ?total immersion??

If your theory about science marginalizing religion holds true, then I should expect more religion to become more prevalent in our games as the stigma and taboo will be abandoned. As it is, there is no shortage or science and science fiction in our games.

And by the way, I?ve nothing against books. I don?t hope or expect all my cultural enrichment from my gaming. I spend more time reading and writing than I do gaming. I just feel there is more games can do, and wonder why it isn?t being done?

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Voxaryx

Ah, did I read correctly that you have another article upcoming in The Escapist? I can't wait! So far you're the only writer who's stimulated me enough that I actually feel the need to put my thoughts down on (virtual) paper.

First, a couple thoughts on total immersion. I define it as the state in which the player doesn't think about the fact that they're playing a game. It's a matter of watching the cutscene because you can't look away, rather than hitting a button to skip it because it's "just a cutscene". It's a matter of "oh no, i need to kill this nasty dude", rather than "oh sweet, another boss fight". It occurs when all you can see is the screen, and everything else disappears from your conscious attention. It's when you're no longer playing a game, but instead you're *experiencing* it.

Ok, now down to the nitpicky details, since I believe I've finally exhausted everything I can say in terms of general theory.

If I read your first paragraph correctly, you consider God of War to be a non-adventure, non-story-intensive game. ?!?! Did you and I play the same game? If someone asked me to name a super-awesome story-based action-adventure game, GoW would be one of the first titles to spring to mind. Nevermind the fact that they didn't create their own mythology for the game, and instead just took stuff already in the cultural consciousness and tweaked it. All in all, not a good example for your side of the discussion.

Killer 7 I have not yet played, so you may be entirely right.

Katamari Damacy? I have to agree that yes, the game isn't story intensive, and yes, it has a mythology... but it's not exactly well developed. I mean, you have yourself a spaced-out King of the Cosmos who goes on hallucinatory destructive binges, and a little Prince who works tirelessly to fix his father's mistakes. Is there any more to it than that? Heck, it sounds more like an encouraging life-lesson for kids growing up with an alcoholic father. If you think more of the theology of Katamari Damacy than, say, Final Fantasy, I guess you and I see things a little differently.

Finally, Deus Ex. Ah, what a wonderful game. Thank you for reminding me about it. Let's put aside the fact that it's a story-intensive action/RPG/adventure, exactly the kind of game I talked about in my third post. The entire game is a cyberpunk story brought to life, cooked out of government conspiricies, criminal organizations, computer hacking, nanotechnologically enhanced cyber-soldiers, aliens, and artificial intelligence systems gone rogue. That's the best part; Deus Ex is a Western-developed game containing a *scientific* mythology, if such a thing can be said to exist.

I think I can now safely rest my case.

 

[The Escapist Staff]

Original Comment by: Khurram Ahmed

Voxaryx:

I mis-spoke.

In my article, I wanted to focus on games that don't normally tend to be story-intensive. I considered GoW to be a Double Dragon/Bad Dudes type of beat-em up. Some puzzles, yes. Better combat system, yes. But in the same vein. GoW choose to develop a rich story.

Killer7 is almost like a cut-scene the whole way through. I don't know how to explain it. I suppose it needed strong imagery, and story, for some semblance of success.

Katamari Damacy impressed me because - apart from what I said in the article about Powrs of Ten (watch it) and Schopenhauer (read him) - the game didn't need the mythology. Consider Super Monkey Ball and its absurd story. Katamari Damacy could have done something like that. It could have been about the little Prince saving a Princess, but they chose a different path.

I don't discount the mythology of Final Fantasy, but if these games can manage to offer reasonably rich mythologies, well-fleshed out, then I expect that much more from Final Fantasy. FF has been more about interesting characters and character development, then it is about the world they live in and its mythology. That's my view.

I'm glad we agree Deus Ex kicks all sorts of ass.

Thanks for the compliments and good discussion. I hope my next article doesn't disappoint.

Regards,
Khurram