Issue 35 - Pastimes Defining a Civilization: Videogames

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Original Comment by: Tom Rhodes

Dana:

You're still missing an important point I made. Yes, kids are inventive, and can convince people of things. But parents are not absentee landlords everywhere, now are they? If parents aren't monitoring their children's viewing habits (both on television, online, and on game systems), then that's bad parenting, that is, but doesn't reach the level to require legislation.

But, again, the question arises of necessity. I'm of the opinion that there need to be a clear a definite need for a law before it's just put on the book, not just theoretical claptrap or punditry. Now let's examine your example:

I could convince my parents to give me money on perfectly innocent grounds, even if my intentions were not equally innocent. For example, I used to travel to the corner store to rent movies. My parents would give me the six dollars I needed, but they had no control over content. That store would let me rent whatever I wanted.

And did you, in fact, turn into a violent killer? No? Well there you go. I know, I know, anecdotal, but I remain citing the statistics I did before. Violent crime, gun-related deaths, and youth-related violence are all at the lowest levels they've been in years (sometimes at all-time lows). So let's not bring the government into this little equation onto the fear of (a) bad parenting, or (b) that little Timmy might rent Alien 6: The Crappening or Grand Theft Auto: Fargo.

Again, there doesn't seem to be a real need of any kind for regulation here. Theaters weren't regulated, neither were video stores, nor rap music, and yet civilization didn't collapse around us. Parents managed to find ways to deal with all these things on their own. How? Most forced stores into adopting policies they wanted (like not selling R-rated films to minors), and would reprimand or fire those who disobeyed such policy. They wouldn't be fined or arrested or jailed, and is that really the path we want for people? Over games?
 

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Original Comment by: Tom Rhodes

Side note:

But Dave, won't someone please think of the children? (Oh, what's that? Education reform? Sorry, I need a new sundeck and I'm in the pocket of the recording industry, so I'm busy with all that piracy stuff)
 

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Original Comment by: Tom Rhodes

*there needs to be

*because of the fear of

*and would make them

Bah, I've been up for far too long.
 

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Original Comment by: Dana Massey
http://www.mmorpg.com
Tom:

Regardless of the reasons, movie theatres do not let kids under 18 into R movies. Most major movie stores do not let youngsters rent things rated R, etc.

To date, the game industry has not shown the same willingness to self-regulate. Anyone can buy anything 99% of the time. That is why it may be the place of the government to make them enforce perfectly logical rules.

And am I crazed killer? No, but I did drop kick furniture off higher furniture after watching kung fu movies ;)
 

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Original Comment by: Tom Rhodes

Dana:

I think there are other avenues to get stores who sell the games to make their policy more like theaters and video stores. In fact, the biggest chain in the world, Wal-Mart, already has that policy in place. In fact, many other stores have done this since at least [http://www.fradical.com/Sting_shows_easy_access_to_games.htm] December of 2003: Circuit City, Blockbuster, GameStop, Target, Wal-Mart, Toys R Us, Electronics Boutique and Hollywood Entertainment. It's already happened.

Not to mention I don't think we should be criminalizing something that the market, parents, and businesses are handling quite well on their own.
 

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Original Comment by: Tom Rhodes

...or criminalizing something that is not harming society in any way, shape, or form that has been measured.
 

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Original Comment by: Mark

To date, the game industry has not shown the same willingness to self-regulate.

When I was fifteen, it was easier for me to get into an R-rated movie than it was to buy an M-rated video game. Anecdotal evidence, yes, but the ESRB is doing at least as good a job as the MPAA and none of the retailers I've seen are selling M-rated games to kids.
 

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Original Comment by: ChickenOfDoom

"In the early part of this century, it is entirely conceivable that a child could grow into adulthood without ever seeing anything more violent than a school-yard brawl."

You could actually say that back then it was worse- a school-yard brawl is real, while video games aren't- it's actual people hurting each other.

I think it's somewhat ironic that this was the example that got used, because fights in school, at least compared to back then, are essentially nonexistant. I've never seen a fight at school, and have only heard about two occuring in my 4 years of high school, and none during my younger grades. I've also heard accounts from teachers that have been there far longer than I have describing how fights were how problems between people used to be resolved only a few decades ago. This is to say nothing of my pleasant surprise at not experiencing ANY of the persecution or harassment geeks always seem to suffer from in old movies. Mild ostracism, sure, but nothing in any way aggressive.
 

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Original Comment by: Dana Massey
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I'm not sure where you went to school, but I remember my share of schoolyard brawls (at younger ages) and then actual serious fights every so often at older ages. And I'm from Canada =)

My point was, I'd wager people see roughly the same amount of real violence and a lot more simulated violence.
 

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Original Comment by: Nick Twining

I?ve got a couple of comments regarding a couple of comments:

Chris ? I totally agree with you and had written a long comment to that effect before my computer crashed as I was editing it. Basically I wanted to propose the question: why is it that best sellers in America are usually FPS? such as Half Life, Halo, or GTA, while in Japan the best sellers are mostly RPG?s and such. I began googling to answer this question and came up with a great article from gamingsteve.com

http://www.gamingsteve.com/archives/2006/02/why_do_american_1.php

While the article doesn?t touch on the differences between our cultures it does at least serve as a statistical survey which indicates that different cultures apparently enjoy different games (as a population). When you draw a comparison to film, however, you find that Japanese movies (and anime) can be extremely violent. So do Americans like to partake in violence while Japanese only like to watch it? I don?t think so. I think, to a degree, that it is the developers and, more importantly, those developers? investors that influence the genre?s development. And while it could be argued that the average American investor is more willing to back a risqué software developer than a Japanese one I could also point to the film examples.
Case in point: nearly everyone talks about how Americans want violence in their games and that is why it appears there. But how did that start? Could it be that we only get top dollars spent on violent games or brand name games (sports titles) because the marketing department insists it?s the most risk free? You bet your bottom dollar.
Yet everyone talks about our love of violence, how the people (at least Americans) demand to shoot and occasionally maim their virtual cohorts. Well dammit, if I?m playing GTA and need a couple extra dollars I can?t sell lemonade by the side of the street nor can I beg for the money or try and get a job. But I can beat the crap out of an old lady and steal her stuff. So it?s not that I?m obsessed with beating people up and taking their money, although it is quite fun, but that it?s the only way developers have given us to progress. Maybe I?m delusional but it seems this is a very common denominator in games and it makes me wonder why? Perhaps that?s the easiest road to take.
It certainly seems easiest to come up with slick new graphics and sounds without ever trying to develop something I call game play. Hurray, in the last ten years I?ve gone from just moving and shooting to slowing down time and jumping in the air whilst performing some fancy boy acrobatic routine?and shooting. Where is my development, where is my progression. I feel, sometimes, like I?m just playing Wolfenstein 9 or Doom 3. Oh wait, I am.