Whitney Butts"I am a girl, but girls do not exist on the internet." Whitney 'Teleios' Butts relates her multiplayer gaming experiences, as a girl on the internet.
Issue 45 - OMG Girlz Don't Exist on teh Intarweb!!!!1
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
- Start date
Original Comment by: tota
Great article,
the first one I read from The Escapist and got me hooked.
Thanks for sharing!
Great article,
the first one I read from The Escapist and got me hooked.
Thanks for sharing!
Original Comment by: Broomy
Very good article. I play in an MMO in an adult guild where there are plenty of women and I have been in guilds run by female gamers so this topic is a little dated for me. However I can see how perhaps the younger set may still be having these issues. Kudos to the writer, she has alot more patcience than I ever did when I started gaming back in 1995!
Very good article. I play in an MMO in an adult guild where there are plenty of women and I have been in guilds run by female gamers so this topic is a little dated for me. However I can see how perhaps the younger set may still be having these issues. Kudos to the writer, she has alot more patcience than I ever did when I started gaming back in 1995!
Original Comment by: Rkiver
http://www.introversion.co.uk
A well written and hysterical comment. I am going to link my fiancée to this and see what she thinks. You see interestingly on an IRC server I frequent we do have a few women on there, I say women because they are all over 18. Women, and girls, do exist on the internet. Just a pity that because some of us have our reproductive organs on the outside, that most of them don't even attempt to talk.
I weep for my gender at times.
http://www.introversion.co.uk
A well written and hysterical comment. I am going to link my fiancée to this and see what she thinks. You see interestingly on an IRC server I frequent we do have a few women on there, I say women because they are all over 18. Women, and girls, do exist on the internet. Just a pity that because some of us have our reproductive organs on the outside, that most of them don't even attempt to talk.
I weep for my gender at times.
Original Comment by: Fifth
http://bushidobrown.livejournal.com
Interesting article. I don't really play many online games, so I haven't seen exactly the same behavior you describe. Most of the weirdness towards girls I see is in pen and paper gaming. I think, in pen and paper gaming, the geek fear tends to evaporate quickly as the other players learn about a new girl gamer. Generally, the weirdness surrounding a new girl in a group tends to evaporate within a session or two, almost as fast as the weirdness towards guy gamers evaporates.
This leads me to believe that guy's attitudes towards girl gamers may partially be based on some weird fear of the unknown - geeks tend to see things in rigid categories and heirarchies. The arrival of a girl upsets that order because the girls are like the guys in their basic geekiness, but are of a gender traditionally placed in the "non-geek" category.
Also - why would a guy bother asking for pictures? Having a picture of a girl does not actually make you a girl gamer. Does Random Guy expect you to take a picture of yourself in front of your computer, holding up a copy of the day's newspaper?
http://bushidobrown.livejournal.com
Interesting article. I don't really play many online games, so I haven't seen exactly the same behavior you describe. Most of the weirdness towards girls I see is in pen and paper gaming. I think, in pen and paper gaming, the geek fear tends to evaporate quickly as the other players learn about a new girl gamer. Generally, the weirdness surrounding a new girl in a group tends to evaporate within a session or two, almost as fast as the weirdness towards guy gamers evaporates.
This leads me to believe that guy's attitudes towards girl gamers may partially be based on some weird fear of the unknown - geeks tend to see things in rigid categories and heirarchies. The arrival of a girl upsets that order because the girls are like the guys in their basic geekiness, but are of a gender traditionally placed in the "non-geek" category.
Also - why would a guy bother asking for pictures? Having a picture of a girl does not actually make you a girl gamer. Does Random Guy expect you to take a picture of yourself in front of your computer, holding up a copy of the day's newspaper?
Also - why would a guy bother asking for pictures? Having a picture of a girl does not actually make you a girl gamer. Does Random Guy expect you to take a picture of yourself in front of your computer, holding up a copy of the day's newspaper?
Interesting comment. I've actually seen a guy pretend to be a girl, send pictures he found on myspace to another guy and exploit it. The guy believed all of it just because he had seen a picture that said 'girl' had sent him. It's interesting what people will choose to believe and what not to believe. I wish I could answer this.
Things have changed quite a bit since I wrote this, I see much less of this than I used to. It's interesting to see how the culture evolves in such short periods of time.
Interesting comment. I've actually seen a guy pretend to be a girl, send pictures he found on myspace to another guy and exploit it. The guy believed all of it just because he had seen a picture that said 'girl' had sent him. It's interesting what people will choose to believe and what not to believe. I wish I could answer this.
Things have changed quite a bit since I wrote this, I see much less of this than I used to. It's interesting to see how the culture evolves in such short periods of time.
Original Comment by: Zanzibar
Yeah this is a good article.
II do wonder where you found people like that though. I mean, in a game I play I know plenty of players who are female xD.
Yeah this is a good article.
II do wonder where you found people like that though
. I mean, in a game I play I know plenty of players who are female xD.
Original Comment by: Pat M.
being a girl on WoW can make some good money:
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3635
being a girl on WoW can make some good money:
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3635
Original Comment by: kjeldor
great article. reminds me alot of my warcraft guild, and how our female members are treated. it is amazing to me some of them have stuck around as long as they have, probably becuase one is twice the age of the horny high school boys drooling over her voice, and the other is married to another member in the guild. unfortunately we have had a member who left over the harassment she got from other members, and one that embraced the 'girl on the internet' deal, and used her best phone sex operator voice on vent and would send pics to anyone who asked.
great article. reminds me alot of my warcraft guild, and how our female members are treated. it is amazing to me some of them have stuck around as long as they have, probably becuase one is twice the age of the horny high school boys drooling over her voice, and the other is married to another member in the guild. unfortunately we have had a member who left over the harassment she got from other members, and one that embraced the 'girl on the internet' deal, and used her best phone sex operator voice on vent and would send pics to anyone who asked.
Original Comment by: Drakkheim
http://www.drakkheim.com
Interesting article. Maybe you should play games where there are more grown ups? ;-)
I've played EQ & EQ2, DAoC, ShadowBane, WoW, Second Life, WWIIoL with my wife and pretty much the only place where we had a hard time finding a mixed guild/clan/squad of men and women was WoW. Granted the ocassional tell seems to be unavoidable in most of those (but you'll get those just for wearing a female shape).
However I do notice that women are still most often marginalized to roles of either dispute mediators or social event planners in guilds, even when the guild is made up entirely of 30+ adults. I see this as a bigger issue for women long-term.
The notable exceptions being Second Life and world war II online, seeing a teamspeak channel hush up as the female XO barks orders and having them being followed and having that translate into a successful assault is something that I've never seen in another MMO, maybe its to do with the fact that a lot of the players are (ex)military . Or as in Second life many of the most successful & respected members of the community are women.
http://www.drakkheim.com
Interesting article. Maybe you should play games where there are more grown ups? ;-)
I've played EQ & EQ2, DAoC, ShadowBane, WoW, Second Life, WWIIoL with my wife and pretty much the only place where we had a hard time finding a mixed guild/clan/squad of men and women was WoW. Granted the ocassional tell seems to be unavoidable in most of those (but you'll get those just for wearing a female shape).
However I do notice that women are still most often marginalized to roles of either dispute mediators or social event planners in guilds, even when the guild is made up entirely of 30+ adults. I see this as a bigger issue for women long-term.
The notable exceptions being Second Life and world war II online, seeing a teamspeak channel hush up as the female XO barks orders and having them being followed and having that translate into a successful assault is something that I've never seen in another MMO, maybe its to do with the fact that a lot of the players are (ex)military . Or as in Second life many of the most successful & respected members of the community are women.
Original Comment by: Lance Mertz
My daughter grew up playing video games and now tests them for a living. Yeah, a "girl" testing vidoe games. She met her husband, a soldier back from Iraq, on the Internet while she was over there and they play the game together. There are real girls on the Internet and this one is a bad-assed one. Just hope you do not run into my daughter in a dark cavern on WOW or she will hurt you bad, AC pukes.
Good article. I need to find one of those adult guilds... I am tired of not finding good partners.
My daughter grew up playing video games and now tests them for a living. Yeah, a "girl" testing vidoe games. She met her husband, a soldier back from Iraq, on the Internet while she was over there and they play the game together. There are real girls on the Internet and this one is a bad-assed one. Just hope you do not run into my daughter in a dark cavern on WOW or she will hurt you bad, AC pukes.
Good article. I need to find one of those adult guilds... I am tired of not finding good partners.
Original Comment by: smj
Gaming may be increasingly accepted in mainstream life, but I seriously doubt it will ever change human nature. Young human males will continue to behave in foolish and immature ways. Young human females aren't immune to this condition, though the ways they express it tend to differ. Some of each group will be surprisingly mature, and enough will achieve it by the mid-point of their lives that the species isn't necessarily doomed to extinction. ;^)
There's some indication in the comments that this is an older article being recycled; Whitney says things may have changed a bit since then. What was the original publication date?
--S.
Gaming may be increasingly accepted in mainstream life, but I seriously doubt it will ever change human nature. Young human males will continue to behave in foolish and immature ways. Young human females aren't immune to this condition, though the ways they express it tend to differ. Some of each group will be surprisingly mature, and enough will achieve it by the mid-point of their lives that the species isn't necessarily doomed to extinction. ;^)
There's some indication in the comments that this is an older article being recycled; Whitney says things may have changed a bit since then. What was the original publication date?
--S.
Original Comment by: infernomatic
Are the pics in the article Whitney's? 'Cuz if they are, that gurl deifinitely does not exist on teh intarweb!!11!1 Damn!!!
Are the pics in the article Whitney's? 'Cuz if they are, that gurl deifinitely does not exist on teh intarweb!!11!1 Damn!!!
Original Comment by: J'Dai
Terrific article! I too "do not exist" in game or on the Internet. My husband got me into gaming (BGII and NWN) and I love it. Sadly, though, it is often the "obvious victims of testosterone poisoning" that cause me to grit my teeth and question if having fun is worth all the grief.
I met a terrific bunch of guys playing NWN - all of them mature and married / seriously committed - and gaming with them has been a tremendous boon. We all eventually moved on to WoW. They have made my MMORPG life much easier than most women ever experience. I still get my share of grief, particularly when I am out playing solo, but I am starting to realize that somethings will take a long time to change (yes, I know I am foolishly optimistic).
Kudos for using your voice in game, too. I am reluctant to even consider it because 1) I enjoy roleplaying and won't make a convincing Tauren and 2) my use of "colorful metaphors" will probably melt a few headsets. I've never been afraid of being the only female voice on the channel, though, and I admire you and your Guild leader for seeing that it should happen more often.
Did I mention that I really liked the article? ;-)
~ JD
Terrific article! I too "do not exist" in game or on the Internet. My husband got me into gaming (BGII and NWN) and I love it. Sadly, though, it is often the "obvious victims of testosterone poisoning" that cause me to grit my teeth and question if having fun is worth all the grief.
I met a terrific bunch of guys playing NWN - all of them mature and married / seriously committed - and gaming with them has been a tremendous boon. We all eventually moved on to WoW. They have made my MMORPG life much easier than most women ever experience. I still get my share of grief, particularly when I am out playing solo, but I am starting to realize that somethings will take a long time to change (yes, I know I am foolishly optimistic).
Kudos for using your voice in game, too. I am reluctant to even consider it because 1) I enjoy roleplaying and won't make a convincing Tauren and 2) my use of "colorful metaphors" will probably melt a few headsets. I've never been afraid of being the only female voice on the channel, though, and I admire you and your Guild leader for seeing that it should happen more often.
Did I mention that I really liked the article? ;-)
~ JD
Original Comment by: Pyrostasis
http://www.thedarkknights.com
I think the main reason there is the disbelief is alot of guys and their girlfriends have issues with the guys gaming. The girl hates the game and the guy gets used to the idea that girls hate games, etc.
The other main issue is, alot of guys do play games as a form of escape, and due to that many of their main social reactions come from online interaction. When a girl suddenly pops up... guys dont know how to react. There are mature gamers, but Id say that a pretty good majority of the gamers out there are kids or people who just dont handle themselves well. They hear a girls voice and they immediatley turn her into a sexual object. Flirt, request picks, etc.
As for the guy not making eye contact with you... well... he was most likely extremely intimidated by you. From the pictures in the article your a good looking woman, a guy plays with you online and your just a bud. Then you show up and he's thinking... whoa... this hot little thing cant be my bud from the game. His emotions get mixed as part of him thinks your a cool gamer bud, and the rest of him wants to jump your bones.
Not all gamers are sexually frustrated, immature, hormone driven, rabid animals....but alot of us are.
http://www.thedarkknights.com
I think the main reason there is the disbelief is alot of guys and their girlfriends have issues with the guys gaming. The girl hates the game and the guy gets used to the idea that girls hate games, etc.
The other main issue is, alot of guys do play games as a form of escape, and due to that many of their main social reactions come from online interaction. When a girl suddenly pops up... guys dont know how to react. There are mature gamers, but Id say that a pretty good majority of the gamers out there are kids or people who just dont handle themselves well. They hear a girls voice and they immediatley turn her into a sexual object. Flirt, request picks, etc.
As for the guy not making eye contact with you... well... he was most likely extremely intimidated by you. From the pictures in the article your a good looking woman, a guy plays with you online and your just a bud. Then you show up and he's thinking... whoa... this hot little thing cant be my bud from the game. His emotions get mixed as part of him thinks your a cool gamer bud, and the rest of him wants to jump your bones.
Not all gamers are sexually frustrated, immature, hormone driven, rabid animals....but alot of us are.
Original Comment by: lobotron
the comments you described are a little exxagerated, still phun to rain chaos over a guild just by saying a single sentence .
the comments you described are a little exxagerated, still phun to rain chaos over a guild just by saying a single sentence
.
Original Comment by: Nikudada
I understand that, in general, young men are immature and do stupid things. Trust me, I did things like stick my hand in a leaf blower as a wee one. However, the generalization that young men are, on the whole, more prone to being foolish and immature than young woman is plain wrong. When you say that young woman arn't immune to it and experience immaturity in a different way seems to me to imply that young woman arn't as immature as young me. Hogwash. Immaturity is simply a lack of maturity - it applies just as much to woman as men. Men and woman do experience it differently, thats true. But to say woman are less immature (sorry for double negative) than men is, to repeat myself, insane. I grew up with a little sister six years younger than me and to see the petty little squabbles that would erupt in the female groups around school made the childish male squabbles seem, at times, quite petty.
So yea, its easier to see a guy harassing a girl because he's undersexed. But thats because your targeting one of the highlights of male immaturity - their infatuation with sex. Could it be that there is a similar achillles heel online for woman?
I understand that, in general, young men are immature and do stupid things. Trust me, I did things like stick my hand in a leaf blower as a wee one. However, the generalization that young men are, on the whole, more prone to being foolish and immature than young woman is plain wrong. When you say that young woman arn't immune to it and experience immaturity in a different way seems to me to imply that young woman arn't as immature as young me. Hogwash. Immaturity is simply a lack of maturity - it applies just as much to woman as men. Men and woman do experience it differently, thats true. But to say woman are less immature (sorry for double negative) than men is, to repeat myself, insane. I grew up with a little sister six years younger than me and to see the petty little squabbles that would erupt in the female groups around school made the childish male squabbles seem, at times, quite petty.
So yea, its easier to see a guy harassing a girl because he's undersexed. But thats because your targeting one of the highlights of male immaturity - their infatuation with sex. Could it be that there is a similar achillles heel online for woman?
Original Comment by: Pyrostasis
http://www.thedarkknights.com
No argument there... I think the issue though with online gaming is the fact that alot of us guys as soon as we hear or see a girl in a game our penis perks up and immediately takes over our actions.
It also doesnt help that alot of the girl gamers appeal to that side of the male ego.
However women immaturity is totally different than males, like you said, ours is haevily focused on sex, and thus the problem with gamer chicks.
http://www.thedarkknights.com
No argument there... I think the issue though with online gaming is the fact that alot of us guys as soon as we hear or see a girl in a game our penis perks up and immediately takes over our actions.
It also doesnt help that alot of the girl gamers appeal to that side of the male ego.
However women immaturity is totally different than males, like you said, ours is haevily focused on sex, and thus the problem with gamer chicks.
Original Comment by: Ulysse
Good article Teleios, got me hooked for awhile...I'll decide later if it was the story or your pictures
Hmm by the way Pyro, we all was intimidated by girls at same point of our sorrow lifes, especially by girls with great attitude like Teleios.
Again I'd like to mention that I really enjoyed the article and the characters within... see ^^ . Good job Tele!
Good article Teleios, got me hooked for awhile...I'll decide later if it was the story or your pictures
Hmm by the way Pyro, we all was intimidated by girls at same point of our sorrow lifes, especially by girls with great attitude like Teleios.
Again I'd like to mention that I really enjoyed the article and the characters within... see ^^ . Good job Tele!