Issue 52 - But I Thought Games Were Supposed to Be Fun!

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Peter Robinett"It seems counter-intuitive to say an entertainment form can be boring, yet it obviously happens, because everyone's tastes are different. But do we have an epidemic on our hands?" In But I Thought Games Were Supposed to Be Fun! Peter Robinette examines the causes of boredom in games, casting game developers in the role of "boredom managers."
 

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Original Comment by: Bryan

Ralph Koster, in his book A Theory of Fun for Game Design, suggests that people will naturally try to find the easiest path through a challenge in order to achieve a certain goal and that this can defeat the purpose of a game where the goal is to challenge the player. Basically humans are goal oriented yet video games are focused more on the process of getting to the goal- the challenge. This is part of why WoW is such a successful game, it gives the player his/her goal at a faster rate (armor, weapons, leveling up, etc) but keeps them challenged in the process.
 

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Original Comment by: Chris
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Having not finished a game since the D&D Gold Box series on the C64, I relate to the question of the story. The blueprint for many game genres hasn't changed since the days of the Atari 2600. The graphics have improved, and games have gotten longer in duration, but most games can trace their gameplay back to some iconic title from the early days of gaming.

I think that episodic gaming is something that is poised to become the Next Big Thing. I remember after completing The Witch's Wake module for Neverwinter Nights, I was so pleased that I had finally completed a game (although it was only a few hours worth), that the memory still remains with me to this day. If developers are going to continue to create traditional genre titles such as the RTS, RPG and FPS, then episoidic delivery is a very attractive option, and may help alleviate the boredom.

MMOs, on the other hand, need to stop catering to those who only have a few minutes to play, and start giving them a reason to play LONGER. Being a lowbie in an MMO is the worst time of all, and yet it's the most crucial for the title, because it's then that they need to hook new players. WoW isn't really the best MMO out there (in my opinion, of course): Blizzard was just exceptionally good at making it so that you can actually measure your success early in the game, and that you can keep measuring your seuccess as you progress. Other MMOs like EVE Online, have far more depth then WoW, but require a significant investment of time to simply get yourself started.

Overall, with so many entertainment options available (portable, console, PC, etc), developers who are interested in the boredom question should re-evaluate the mechanics of the games they're creating. While saying that a game takes 60-80 hours to complete gives the buyer the feeling that the game is really a good investment, but getting stuck, frustrated or bored 10 minutes into an 60 hour game would leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.
 

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Original Comment by: Brian
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I have had brushes with MMORPGs. I started playing Ultima Online, which was fantastic in it's early days, before it was dumbed down and the PvP system was made safer for fools. I played EQ2 but the crafting system was bunk. You spent all day making ingredients, for ingredients, to end up with a ruined piece of leather. Then i was recruited to play WoW. I like the soft toon look, but after a day of work in front of the computer, I felt like I would come home and then work...in front of my computer. The grinding just made me frustrated. I don't understand how people can do repetitive, menial tasks over and over for 60 levels and think that the game has any submersing qualities at all. I can see the social aspects, but as far as gameplay, bring a book. You begin the game killing 7 spiders. Then as your skills grow you merely kill 7 beasts of comparable strength. The game never grows. Killing and collecting, grinding and running. You can't even choose the color of your clothes, you have to take whatever color the armor comes to you in. Weak sauce.
I like my role playing games with dice. And the confines of the submersing reality are walled only by the expansive imaginations of those at the table, which with the right group of people is plenty of room to satisfy fantasies of a better, wilder life..rather than middle class wage slavery.
 

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Original Comment by: Peter Robinett

Bryan, I totally agree with you about WoW. In fact, the article orginally had a few lines saying much the same as what you just said, though unfortunately it got lost on the editing floor. Put simply, WoW has better goals than other games. However, Chris says something interesting about being a "lowbie", simply that it still sucks in WoW. Where WoW succeeds is not that the low level game is particularly rewarding in itself but rather that you can progress quickly out of it (I can vouch for this, having recently played WoW again on a trial account, the first time being during the beta). I think that the appeal of the highest levels, where the XP attainment goal starts to breakdown or end, suggests that ultimately levels in MMOs aren't that fun (of course, there are those dying for the increased level cap in the upcoming expansion). Would an MMO without levels or skills to increase still be fun? I would think/hope so, though it would probably demand a lot more out of the creators, either in creating content or creating tools by which players can create content. Or would it then just be a virtual world more akin to Second Life?
 

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Original Comment by: obo

Another agreement here about WoW, though not about the better goals or faster "lowbie" progression. Unless I missed where you say the lowbie progression ends at level 50, at least. At least two-thirds of the quests in WoW are grinds themselves - grind for X items to turn in for a quest, grind on a certain mob X times, grind an instance to kill a boss for item X.

The biggest laugh of disgust I had with WoW was the level 50 rogue quest, which sends you to the leader of the Assassin's Guild. Are you going to sneak past dozens of guards to get into a high-ranking Horde officer's tent and kill him? Navigate a trap-filled dungeon to take out a dangerous warlock? Backstab an unsuspecting ally in the middle of a battle? Actually assassinate anyone?

No. You pickpocket furbolgs for item X to take to NPC Y, who says he can't do anything with X until you kill slimes to collect 10 Zs. Grind, grind, grind. If anything, the lowbie quests ? lifting a key off a guarded goblin in Elwynn, sneaking past undead to open a chest in Westfall, eavesdropping on an NPC before killing him in Stormwind - were more engaging than the level 50 quest.

Now, if you did mean that the lowbie grind is in fact from 1 to 50 and not 1-20 or even 1-40, and that the grind is faster in WoW than in other games, then MMOs just aren't for me. I've got to be doing something wrong to play WoW at least 3 hours a night for 9 months just to get to level 50.

"Would an MMO without levels or skills to increase still be fun? I would think/hope so, though it would probably demand a lot more out of the creators, either in creating content or creating tools by which players can create content. Or would it then just be a virtual world more akin to Second Life?"

That sounds exactly like Second Life. It's also not very fun unless you plan on spending all of your game time playing Second Life and nothing else. Or if you're a furry.
 

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Original Comment by: 5p.

"...most first-person shooters no longer require you to run through endless hallways..."

Need I mention the fact that the Xbox's flagship first-person shooter mandated exactly that?

"Would an MMO without levels or skills to increase still be fun? I would think/hope so, though it would probably demand a lot more out of the creators, either in creating content or creating tools by which players can create content. Or would it then just be a virtual world more akin to Second Life?"

I haven't played Guild Wars, but doesn't it have a mechanism which lets you skip the grind and jump into PvP with a high-level character?
 

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Original Comment by: bob arctor

Could you drop the right-on PC use of "she" for gamers please?

It's possibly worse than the ever-clumsy "he/she", "(s)he", or varients.

I know the Escapist has a thing about women gamers and stuff (I've yet personally to experience the 38%...) but the language has settled on "they" for the neutral non-discriminative subject. Which makes sense as being general you are talking about more than one person. Of course there is still "one" but no-one takes that seriously.

E.g. "The player often feels that they are forced to complete overly daunting challenges, such as completing the last level of Thief II. As a result of this they do not make the effort to finish the game".

Or just do what the French language does and stick with "he" (il) for unknowns (in fact a group of men and women are "ils", or they [male]). It may be a sexist leftover etc, but that doesn't really matter nowadays.
 

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Bob, we usually let the writer decide what to do with gender-specific pronouns, provided he's (see? :p) consistent.

I prefer using "he" when I write, just because I've taken Romance languages in school, and they tend to favor that direction, like you mentioned. However, you'll see "she" show up a lot, too.

Also, using "they" the way you do is grammatically incorrect. "Player" is singular, whereas "they" is plural.

</grammar nerd>
 

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Original Comment by: Slartibartfast

This was an interesting article, but I would have liked a little more meat to it (as usual :) ).

The idea of what makes games fun is something that I've thought about a lot. I too have read Raph Koster's book and enjoyed it immensely, but I am not certain I agree with his ideas. The idea of fun as derived from learning patterns is interesting and has merit, but I see fun as being broken down into more categories.

In my experience, there are a few things that can make a videogame fun: the mechanics themselves, the visceral experience, the psychological motivators behind them, or quite simply the story.

Videogames that depend upon mechanics for fun are very, very few, the classic example being tetris. It doesn't matter what those pieces look like, the game is fun at it's very core. This applies primarily to puzzle games.

More requently, videogames rely on the visceral in order to provide fun and/or a rush. Example: I love Burnout. I think it's a fantastic game. But could the mechanics be any more bland? Not really. But the game gives you such a fantastic rush that it becomes very, very fun. This applies to most FPS games as well.

A good example of an effective mix is Ikaruga. The game is so intense that it becomes a very powerful, adrenaline-inducing experience. Additionally, the mechanics are simple yet very clever, which is a hallmark of successful non-videogames (look at Go, for instance).

MMO's and other action-RPG's like Diablo fall somewhere else, though. They seem to rely more on psychology: the desire to collect stuff, and the desire to become more powerful. Diablo has pretty simple mechanics as well: walk around, kill stuff, gain power. There's not much depth there, nor is there much of a "oh my god it's like I'm right there" rush. But it's addicting because you want to find stuff and you want to become powerful.

Games that are fun because of the story are pretty obvious, I think. The mechanics/experience tend to fade to the background, or operate in such a way as to facilitate the story.

Examples of games that mix the psychological aspect with the story aspect would be pretty much any square-enix game. Sure you like the stories, but most everyone who plays also wants to get all the items and twink-out their characters.

What makes videogames so special is that they can have all these different types of fun. Traditional board/card games usually succeed or fail with the mechanics, and for this reason I think it is much harder to make a successful game of this type (and consequently I find them much more interesting). The visceral experience can play a roll, however: I don't think Munchkin would be quite so fun to play if it weren't for the fact that the cards are just absolutely hilarious. On the flip side, I think the famous Chez Geek is rather boring: yes the cards/themes are funny, but the gameplay itself is lacking.






 

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Original Comment by: Peter Robinett

Bob: As Russ said, "they" is plural, not singular, and thus incorrect (though I agree it is what most people use). Like Russ I often use "he", though in this case I happened to use "she". There wasn't a lot of thought in it, but I would say that it is perfectly acceptable usage. Many authors will alternate "he" and "she" by paragraph when talking about an unknown person. Of course the correct way would be to use "one", which is basically a genderless third person pronoun, yet then you'd probably be complaining about my language being too stuffy, as it is assumed by Americans to be used by upper crust people to refer to themselves, along the line of the royal we. Ironically, in French the analog is used as an informal first person plural pronoun (though it also should be a third person singular one). But anyway, French is not English, and the English language is quite versatile, so I generally think each person should just use what they feel is clearest for the given situation. Ok, enough on that.

5P: My Halo experience is limited, but my understanding is that people liked the single-player game despite the endless halls, thanks to a decent story and good gameplay pacing, such as with the ebb and flow of combat due to the regenerating shield. As for Guild Wars you are correct, you can choose to enter PVP with a vanilla level 20 character. Of course, you don't have as many skills to choose from before combat (you can only have 8 at a time in a zone) but it's a great mechanism for someone knew to hang with the big guys.

Obo: If a questless MMO isn't fun for many people, yet current games encourage a grind, what's the solution? Better quests? The problem then becomes simply a matter of limited developer resources, which is why I think player-created quests could be so important. And should there be a level cap? If there is than once you reach that level you're essentially now playing a level-less game. Ultimately I believe that the best games are the ones that provide meaningful achievement outside of satisfying the game mechanics (the exception being games like Tetris, which are only mechanics). That is, the greatest achievements are not increasing a counter (XP, or Level, or whatever) but defeating a challenging enemy thanks to one's skill or handling a contentious social situation. Put simply, you don't need levels for these types of achievement (you don't see many multiplayer FPSs with levels for good reason--they would just serve to restrict player skill).

Slartibartfast: I think the psychology of goal-attainment unlies all those forms of achievement. For instance, there is the simplest goal, clearing a line of blocks in Tetris, but there are also more complex ones, such as saving the world in Oblivion. I think a good story essentially is a goal/reward in itself, as players take advancing the story as their goal, as they want to learn more, while that advancement of the plot is the reward. Myself, I cheated through the second half of Starcraft because I was so into the story that I couldn't wait through numerous trials and errors on the battlefield (I'm a somewhat better RTS player now) to find out what happened.
 

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Original Comment by: Chris
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Peter, I think you are angling in the right direction when you said that player-created quests are important. Some of the best memories of time spent in UO way back when didn't involve the hardcoded game engine at all: player created towns (which later became institutionalized in some MMOs), player "weddings", contests, guild parties and the like.

I think that there are a lot of games which have the parts that are needed, but they're touted more as "features" then anything else, and they're not manditory. WoW's battlefields and Anarachy Online's notum refineries are examples of player influenced landscapes, yet both are merely offshoots of the main games. What if the Horde took over Stormwind and was allowed to keep it?

This would mean, of course, that the egalitarian ideas behind most MMOs -- that every player must have the same opportunities as every other player -- needs to bite the dust. Controlled PvP is nothing compared to human greed and jealousy. Simply being able to loot a corpse doesn't cut it either; increase the stakes, unbalance the playing field, and the players will create their own reasons for playing beyond just grinding and obtaining stuff.
 

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Original Comment by: Peter Robinett

Chris: You're right that the changes would put an end to the egalitarian pretensions of MMOs. For instance, combat right now is based on stats and dice rolls. Since anyone can increase their stats, anyone can become better (though granted if you're not effectively using your spells or whatever you won't be as effective). If you have a real-time, skill-based combat system (ie like an FPS, such as PlanetSide has) then some people will be better than others and the path to improve will be a lot more difficult, as it will be whole an internal thing on the path of the player. And, allowing inequality of skill will logically lead to pressure to allow inequalities of money.
 

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Original Comment by: bob arctor

"Comment from Joe Blancato [Staff] on Jul 6, 2006 at 11:25 am · http://www.waterthread.org
Bob, we usually let the writer decide what to do with gender-specific pronouns, provided he's (see? :p) consistent.

I prefer using "he" when I write, just because I've taken Romance languages in school, and they tend to favor that direction, like you mentioned. However, you'll see "she" show up a lot, too.

Also, using "they" the way you do is grammatically incorrect. "Player" is singular, whereas "they" is plural.

"

Cheers for the reply. I know it's technically incorrect, but I'm a grammar liberal in that respect. If it sounds good then I'm happy with it, hence I also like "Me Dave and Bill went to the cinema" despite the fact it should be "I" as it's a subject.
People tend to use they as a non-gender specific subject, even though it's wrong.
English is such a crazy language anyhow I don't think it'salways worth upholding grammar, especially those ideas only created by Victorians with too much time on their hands.
 

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Original Comment by: bob arctor

Also: cheers for the reply Peter. It's probably a personal taste thing.


Anyhow I would like to see more of fun losses. At the moment losing is never fun.

But I want to have fun being a little guy in a strategy map trying to survive, and getting appropriate kudos from the game.

In a MMO I could be a peasant on the losing team, watching the battles draw close to my farmstead.

In Oblivion I am not really gripped by the main quest, I have only just started the Kvatch thing, and it's a bit dull. I prefer doing the other stuff, the stuff not for heros but "ordinary" adventurers. Just riding around clearing dungeons.

Maybe drop the hero plot and just have "day in the life" scenarios. Maybe that would be invigorating for fun, drop the obsession with winning challenges.

Did people enjoy those missions in Thief when the only objective was "I gotta pay my rent, let's rob this guy"?
 

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Original Comment by: Gwen

"Anyhow I would like to see more of fun losses. At the moment losing is never fun."

Grand Theft Auto : San Andreas is a blast to have losses in. Often times you attract police attention and the situation tends to get more dangerous and more hectic, and you start taking greater risks (hit a crazy jump at high speeds to lose the police) and then boom! your car has been heavily damaged in your run and the landing went badly, you end up in the hospital but the chase ended splendidly due to the release of the tension that was building and the fond memories of the time you managed to avoid catastrophe.

The key there is that you may "die" but you come back with setbacks (lost weapon progress, hospital costs, time passes), and the whole experience was random, fun and thrilling.

There's so many options in GTA:SA that make it great, and its not even my prefered setting (I love fantasy) and I don't even identify with the Avatar (Carl is my opposite), but I can play it over and over without being bored (other games rip me away from good games like that though, since I keep hoping to find a new game like it that meets my other interests... Oblivion is up there except I hate reloading when things go bad).

Talking about GTA wasn't my original interest here, but when it comes to a game that does losses well, GTA wins.


Originally I was thinking about "Levels" in MMORPGs, usually higher level means beating a lower level, and PvP in such is just acting that out as opposed to single player games where "I made it to level 91 in Bubble Bobble" beats "Darn, I only made it to 85." The difference is the inanity of MMORPGs' level progression : this time get MORE XP (and grinding for XP is so boring). It seems like a step backward. The only fun MMORPG's I've played have ignored levels and involved skillgain through skilluse (like UO).

I think the use of Levels should only be for enviroment not characters. Otherwise you end up sectioning off areas (since NPC levels dictate where a player can survive) in a similar manner by making earlier areas obsolete and boring, and higher level areas impossibly dangerous.
Ultima Online let you explore anywhere, you just had to be more careful if you weren't used to places you were going, which made exploring interesting.
 

Russ Pitts

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> I know it's technically incorrect, but I'm a grammar liberal in that respect. If it sounds good then I'm happy with it ... English is such a crazy language anyhow I don't think it'salways worth upholding grammar, especially those ideas only created by Victorians with too much time on their hands.

Bob, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy for that point of view at The Escapist. At least not in regards to what is printed in our magazine. For one thing, we're pretty up-front about the fact that, in terms of English grammar and usage, we adhere to the standards published in the AP Style Book. For standards not covered in the book (and a few other exceptions), we follow our own guidelines, which may be found HERE [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/files/WriterGuidelines_Escapist.zip].

Aside from that, the printed word is the tool of our trade here at The Escapist, and most of us have been studying and utilizing it for much of our lives. One of the basic tenets of written communication is that it should always A) be concise and B) accurately communicate a thought or idea. This is the reason standards of grammar and usage exist.

Once we've all agreed upon the standards, we can then turn our attention to where it belongs: the idea being communicated. It's the same for games. The rules aren't nearly as important as the playing of the game, yet without the rules, there could be no game. "If it sounds good" just isn't an acceptable standard for written communication. At least, not from the point of view of one of the editors of this magazine.
 

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Original Comment by: Joe

I don't think boredom is the problem that the author is making it out to be. Granted, there are some games out there that would be a great cure of insomnia but I think the problem lies more in impatience.

We live in an ?I want it now? society. It?s one of the motivations for faster internet connections and transfer speeds. You can look to impatience for part of the reason why people cut in line or zip in and out of traffic while driving down the road. There are a lot of people out there who simply don?t want to wait or complete the task the way it was meant to be done so they look for an easier and more convenient way to complete something. Unfortunately it can easily lead to cheating.
 

Peter Robinett

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Joe, I think we may have different definitions of boredom. Basically my definition encompasses both the sleep-inducing things and the no-interest-skip-it-now ones. Put simply, if something is neither interesting nor engaging, it's boring. As the psychologists put it, boredom is a state of low affect and low arousal. I think that in many cases the I-want-it-now syndrom comes about simply a lack of interest in the intermediate steps (ie those steps are boring and simply distract for the interesting end goal). Granted, low attention spans and little desire to wait to see if something becomes more interesting are also to blame.
 

Peter Robinett

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Bob Arctor, Gwen: I think fun losses are key, as it is the repeated losing that often is the cause of boredom, at least in my case. Repeating the same hallway battle in Far Cry over and over again is not interesting... there's nothing new! That's why I see some hope in adaptive games that moderate the difficulty level if you fail. As Gwen notes, GTA makes failure less tramatic by not having death at all, but only the expense of a hospital visit. WoW does something quite similar. This, I hope, is the future of the majority of games. I hope that soon black screens announcing your death and then a dump to the main menu will be a thing of the past.