Issues in Gaming that Need to be Addressed

DoPo

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Solaire of Astora said:
We know all about "crunch time" and how typically overworked many developers are. But what can we do about it?
Tell the marketing to fuck off. Seriously. The problem is - a deadline is set often way, way in advance and there are a lot of things that can push development out of time - random issues they might have, for example, or scope creep (which could originate from marketing, again). Not having a, very possibly unrealistic, deadline looming over them would be of much help. Also, improving the workflow with the QA integrated into development (more than it is now) would mean they won't be left with a bunch of bugs to fix for the release at the last possible moment.

But that's a bit unrealistic, actually - it's one thing to say "tell marketing to fuck off" another for it to actually happen. I don't think there is much, if anything, we can do for marketing. What we could do more realistically, is support not having this crap - "it's done when it's done" is a release policy I'm personally happy with, as long as it's not abused.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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RJ 17 said:
OT: How about pricing? Since everyone seems to be in a big hub-bub about The Order: 1886's allegedly short campaign, I do think it's a fair question to take another look at the pricing setup. Look, I'm not trying to say that a game's cost should be determined by the time it takes to complete it...but I've gotta say if you can complete a game on a single Saturday then I just don't think it's worth $60. Other people might, and I won't argue with them, as only each individual can say what a game is worth to them. But for my money, I'd like a game that takes at least 4 days to complete...preferably with features that increase replay value such as New Game+ or post-story free-roam.

Someone around here made a topic insisting that games don't really cost $60 because if you don't like them you can re-sell them for about $40. There was something about a $5 gift card from Target in there, so in the end he said that games really only cost $15-$20. I pointed out that, in the case of an incredibly short game - and proceeding under the assumption that you dislike such a short game and intend to trade it back in - that can be completed on a single Saturday, you're literally just pissing away that $15-$20 on an experience you didn't fully enjoy. Furthermore, if you buy a game, complete it, and sell it back in anything less than a week, you're essentially just renting the game for $15-$20 which is absolutely ridiculous considering you could actually rent the game for much cheaper and be rid of it in the same timeframe if you don't like it.

His rebuttal included an assortment of attempts to change the subject of the discussion, and when I wouldn't allow him to deviate from the topic at hand, he kinda stopped responding to me. :p

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I'm going to pay $60 for a game, I expect a bit more value than a single weekend's worth. Otherwise why not simply rent the game instead and save a lot of cash?
Here's the thing about pricing by length or content, it's something that isn't done in any other entertainment media.

You don't pay less for a 90 minute movie than you do for a 3 hour movie when you go to the movies. You don't pay less for a 200 page book than you do for a 600 page book when you go to a book store. Why should you pay less for a 5 hour game than you do for a 15 hour game?

Of course the counter argument is that other entertainment mediums generally cost significantly less than most video games, and that video games take a lot more investment on the part of the consumer in order to play them at all, which makes them different from other entertainment media.

Anyway, I don't have an answer to how video games should be priced, I just think that these are arguments that should be considered by both sides.
 

Phasmal

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StriderShinryu said:
Vault101 said:
Fappy said:
So a decent number of users have recently expressed their joy that the Escapist is moving away from sociopolitical commentary.
was it even there in the first place?

or do we just place a big scary label on certain topics so that we can dismiss them? is discussing the fact that games (like other mediums) tend to pander to one demographic reeeeeaaaaly a "political" topic? I thought it was just common knowledge?
I agree, but at the same time it's become fairly obvious that too many people just can't handle actual discussion about these sorts of topics. Just mention a few keys names, or even just words and concepts, and things explode into a firey shitstorm. The Escapist feels (perhaps rightfully) that it can't control this sort of thing and so they have decided they'll just try to avoid it altogether. Of course, they also don't want to face the potential backlash of being seen as someone who takes a side. It's safer to just stay in their little foxhole and pretend that these issues aren't important in gaming because it's all about the happy happy positive side of everything! *insert cheesy grin here*
I think the problem I have with this (and the Escapists `new direction`, if it is what I think) is that this is the way it used to be.
When I was a kid, you never got any discussion of women or race in gaming. Gamers who weren't straight white dudes were invisible, talking about them and issues that affect them was `political`.

So we got the old `oh girls don't play games` (cause we literally will never talk about them doing so).
So.... it's kinda like, well we had our time to have issues talked about but hey we gotta go back in our box now and be invisible cause it's upsetting to the more important audience.

I really hope it's not like that and I really hope I'm wrong.

But I suppose we will see.

OT: Also yeah. DLC is a big thing we need to be talking about, also the issues around pre-ordering and how much we are expected to take on trust when companies treat us like criminals all the time.
 

Silence

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I like the complaint about AI. I think since F.E.A.R we never got a game which marketed/got praised because of its AI.

Issue #2 I have right now: Every game being the same (Hello, Radiotowers). The first game in a series alwas being nothing more than a prologue.
Seriously, I have not played a game that recently came out in months, aside from a few indies. I have no interest in them. (And I have enough older games).

By the way, I am not against discussing sociopolitical themes in games that are about sociopolitical themes. Just don't repeat sentences like a cult (I listened to an Idle Thumbs Podcast about Morrowind and one part was about "this is there, this should not be there." Arguments? Questions if the depiction showed it as a negative or if it glossed over every problem? No, just "this should not be there ewwwww." Or "the lighthouse, the most phallic of structures". Please. I rather avoid these themes if you talk about them in this way.
Questions if the depiction of war in "This War of mine" is realistic? Yes please.
 

Quadocky

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The regressive nature of gaming discourse. Reading average users championing the ideas of judging games piece by piece with numbered scores has made me so very very sad. Or people being adverse to anything remotely political in relation to games. (Deus Ex for example is pretty damn subversive, yet nobody really talk about it in that regard so much as to praise the open level design.. and not much else)

Not to say such reviewing has a place, but honestly seeing people championing it as a sort of 'standard' just really rubs me the wrong way. Game reviews like all media reviews should ideally be uniformly subjective from the authors point of taste. Getting wrapped up in the superficial aspects of things is the wrong direction, we should be more focused on finding if the game succeeds at what it is trying to accomplish in terms of its engagement with the player.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Kickstarters failing to meet promises after taking your money. Is this okay? Id think it unreasonable to expect a developer to keep trying to implement a promised feature that for whatever reason doesnt work and could potentially ruin the project, but on the other hand not holding them to promises leaves the whole thing ripe for exploiting.
 

veloper

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More reviews, more talk about game design, more articles like extra punctuation or Shamus' stuff and maybe a recurring piece with the new highlights on Kickstarter and Desura.
Interviews with game devs I can also appreciate.

So basicly I prefer more talk pertaining directly to the hobby we all enjoy.
 

JemothSkarii

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I'd like to see more stuff about Kickstarter games and the issues/successes that may arise, maybe some more discussion on Steam and Greenlight games. DLC abuse is something that needs to be discussed, I personally vainly hold onto hope that Expansion Packs make a comeback. A man can hope.
 

small

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Ai definitely. there was all this praise for the nemesis system in shadow over mordor but it was also something we could of had 10 years ago. nothing has changed ai wise for a decade at the very outside
 

sanquin

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The last game that had pretty good AI that I played was FEAR1. Enemies flanked, called out orders, tried to flush you out with grenades, actually spotted/heard you if you came into view/made a sound... It wasn't perfect, but it's better than anything I've seen in any shooter since then. (yes, even the fear sequels. They apparently decided their half-decent AI wasn't for the masses or something...)

I don't get why publishers/devs focus on graphics and story so much, yes seem to see the actual gameplay parts as an afterthought. Menu's, movement, weapon/tool/whatever handling, enemy and ally AI...those should be at the core of any game, not the story and graphics... Heck, not even the multiplayer.

In other words, devs/publishers need to start focusing on the core of games again, not on pretty pictures and flashes on the screen.


Another one would be the 2 weapon limit. Doesn't anyone remember the fun of being able to carry 6~10 weapons, and cycling through the one you want to use depending on the situation? Sure, it's harder to make a 'balanced' game like that, but come on it's your JOB to make such things!
 

shrekfan246

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Quadocky said:
The regressive nature of gaming discourse. Reading average users championing the ideas of judging games piece by piece with numbered scores has made me so very very sad. Or people being adverse to anything remotely political in relation to games. (Deus Ex for example is pretty damn subversive, yet nobody really talk about it in that regard so much as to praise the open level design.. and not much else)

Not to say such reviewing has a place, but honestly seeing people championing it as a sort of 'standard' just really rubs me the wrong way. Game reviews like all media reviews should ideally be uniformly subjective from the authors point of taste. Getting wrapped up in the superficial aspects of things is the wrong direction, we should be more focused on finding if the game succeeds at what it is trying to accomplish in terms of its engagement with the player.
Yep, this 100%.

I see people constantly hooting and hollering about how they just want to get rid of people "intolerant of opposing viewpoints", but I've been here for a pretty long time now, especially in internet time. You know what I've seen? The only ones who have been "intolerant" of any viewpoints are the same people who are now cheering that people have lost their jobs and that The Escapist isn't planning to continue tackling hard topics in future. The people who would fly into a thread to say "Anita Sarkeesian is a con artist!!!" for no other reason than to express their seething rage, the people who accuse Jim Sterling of not being a consumer advocate because he doesn't get behind the stupid ideas consumers have which they seem to think are good somehow, the people who label everyone who even moderately disagrees with them as a filthy "SJW".

I'm really interested in scrutinizing and talking about the narratives of video games. I'd like to examine them in greater depth; pull them apart and dig into what makes them work or not, or identify what sort of cultural influences they've pulled in to craft their worlds, or extrapolate what sort of implications they think certain ideas might have on society. I find it incredibly difficult to actually do that, however, because there really aren't a lot of people actually looking at them with that sort of critical eye. People throw massively overblown tantrums whenever somebody tries, and they cry out for us to "Just get back to the games", as if talking about the bloody writing has nothing to do with the game.

All in all, it makes me sad more than anything else. I'm sad that there are people who are my age--still relatively young--or even younger than me who have such a twisted view of what criticism is and should be. I'm sad that there are people who have been reared in internet echo chambers who can't handle having their little bubbles popped. I'm sad that people think the "roots" of gaming press in general and The Escapist in particular just ignored sociopolitical commentary as if it didn't exist at the time (when The Escapist was already publishing intense articles about things like "women in games" a decade ago). I'm sad that people think pretending said commentary doesn't exist will constitute "progress".
 

Silvanus

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sanquin said:
I don't get why publishers/devs focus on graphics and story so much, yes seem to see the actual gameplay parts as an afterthought. Menu's, movement, weapon/tool/whatever handling, enemy and ally AI...those should be at the core of any game, not the story and graphics... Heck, not even the multiplayer.
I can understand objecting to a focus on graphics, sure; they're superficial, and style usually trumps pixel-count anyway.

But story? That's one of the central parts of a game for me.
 

OldNewNewOld

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I think the real problems in gaming are the huge amount of shallow games that sell for $60, DLC that would have been unlockables like 5 years ago, selling what was once a cheat code (thanks R*, you did a great job at getting this low. I understand EA and Ubishit but you?), DLC announcements before the game is even out, insane amount of marketing money driving the development costs to ridiculously huge amounts and blaming the consumer for not buying their shitty game when it fails to sell over 5 fucking million copies. The world design practice that forces everything to have a purpose and rewards the player (take Skrim for example, pretty much everything has a secret and a rewards in it, there is no corner of the map that doesn't have something. I don't know how people can say exploration is great in Skyrim when there is nothing to explore. When you have empty parts with nothing in it, then finding that one secret in the region is so much more rewarding than the same secret in a "secret" filled world).

Microtransaction in a +$60 games. Yeah, people are in uproar against Evolve (and I think for a good reason) but where was your reaction when R* added microtransactions to fucking GTAV? Where were you when Ubishit added micro-transaction to AC:Unishit? Those games, those micro-transactions far worse than anything in Evolve. In the case of GTAV, it's literally pay to win since the money gives you a big advantage over those who don't pay. And all player paid for the fucking game. This pretty much opens the door to AAA games with premium currencies like the shallow mobile "games".

And then there is the obvious shit like the The Order developer who openly say they added gameplay to the game because they are forced to do so and if they could they would make it without gameplay. Story and graphics aren't and should never be more important than gameplay. If you add just minimal gameplay because you're forced to do so, then go and make a freaking CGI movie. It's 2015, they sell well unlike 20 years ago so no need to sell your movies as some awful game. When graphics become the focus point of selling console games, people talk about the "awesome" graphics on their console but then make fun of the Wii while all the console games look like trash compared to medium setting PC games. The death of few genre. The focus on the "wider" audience and killing existing niche franchises in the attempt to get the CoD audience who doesn't fucking care (I'm still mad about Thief and I will be mad until the rest of my gaming days, maybe even longer). The complete lack of any AI progress. They enemy is retarded, has no strategy and they make the game "harder" by making the enemies bullet sponges or just deal insane damage (pretty much every game on anything above normal and Dark Souls, the supposedly hard game that you can easily win without dying a single time). A challenging game would have challenging enemies and a hard world/level design. Not deal insane damage while being ridiculously easy to cheese.

The focus on player choice is killing games. Not everything needs to have the player choice affect the story. And literally nothing needs it if you're incompetent like Bioware and can't make proper choices. No, being an angle or the devil isn't a good moral system. I would rather have a solid story than some shit that Bioware slaps together. The focus on "open" world is bad as well. Or at least extremely badly implemented in pretty much every game. I don't freaking care that your game has a 100km^2 map if it's going to be empty, lifeless, copy pasted or made with a brush tool. I don't need an infinitely big procedurally generated world if you will find the same fucking structure every 10 minutes of playing. Give me a small lively world, well designed where I have reason to explore. Not ever NPC needs to exist for quest, hints or to sell something. Just add them, let them live their lives. It makes the world so much nicer and immersive. The capital city of Skyrim having 10 houses and 20 NPC'... really? Is this some sick joke?
The limit of the number of weapons in FPS games is killing me. Sure, a real soldier can't carry 6 guns, but neither can he heal after waiting for 5 seconds behind a wall. Maybe more fantasy and old school shooter and less military shooter would be nice. You won't get the CoD audience, please stop trying. Try getting a different audience. There are tons of us who would kill to play more FPS that aren't CoD clones. I liked Titanfall to some extend. With some improvements and some changes, it would be a freaking fantastic game. Tribes: Ascend was fantastic, but killed by the badly implemented f2p model and the shit balance to make the game more like CoD. No, there was no fucking need to add more hit-scane weapons in a game which people play because it has no hit-scan weapons. No, there was no need to buff the fucking Assault Rifle and the LAR to an extend where they would completely replace the Spinfuser and other weapons from the game. The the biggest of all nos goes to the fucking speed cap. It's a game about going fast. If you have a shitty pathfinder and defense, you deserve to lose the flag. Don't fuck up with the good player because some people are bad at the game. Instead a good match making would be better. Just because I and someone have the same rank doesn't mean we have the same skill If he can't ski at a constant of 200km/h with a pathfinder or any light class, he's not a good player. Don't match them against us who can keep a constant 300km/h. He can't catch us, he can't defend, he can't get the flag, he will lose, you will kill his will to play, he will cry on the forum if he's someone who doesn't want to get good and you will just fuck up the game.

Well, that some that came to my mind while writing. Would be surprised if I worded some of my problems badly and they turn out to contradict each other.
 

happyninja42

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shteev said:
DoPo said:
tippy2k2 said:
Why can't when I duck down under cover in a shooter that the AI doesn't advance forward since it's enemy (me) is busy cowering (or at least throw a damn grenade my way)?
Interestingly, Half-Life was praised for it's AI when it came out because it did that. If you hide behind some crates against the marines, prepare to eat some grenades. And the soldier AI also cooperated and stuff, as well[footnote]erm, when not throwing grenades at each other by accident, but still[/footnote]. It was pretty much revolutionary. And that was about 16 years ago.
People talk a lot about Half Life doing that. I don't notice it happen once playing the game.
Really? That's a shame, 'cause I saw it a lot. They would lay down covering fire while another marine would move around to flank me, they'd toss grenades to flush me out. They were very strategic about it. It was quite refreshing really.

On the flip side of this mechanic, I really loved F.E.A.R. because of how the AI reacted. They would actually become terrified of me. I remember one sequence where I was moving through some multi-story office building, and got attacked by a squad of the shocktroops. I turned on bullet time, and started to slaughter them with gleeful delight, and then I ducked back into cover to reload and recharge my bullet time. The troops had backed out of the lobby we were fighting in, and had hidden in a nearby room. While I sat there, waiting for them to come out I heard from their squad leader.

"Squad! Move in!"
Random surviving squadmate. "Negative!"
Leader *clearly more agitated*: "SQUAD! ADVANCE!"
Cowering squadmate: "NO FUCKING WAY!"

And they refused to come out of their hiding spot to fight me. I had to go in there and attack them. I'd never seen that before, and I really found it enjoyable. That I had been so lethal and terrifying to them in combat, that I had broken their will to fight. So, I tossed a grenade in there, and then bullet time rushed them as they reacted to the grenade. It was a great gaming moment. xD
 

immortalfrieza

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tippy2k2 said:
I don't know if this is what you have in mind or not but I'm going with it and there's nothing you can do to stop me! Wha ha ha haaaaa!!!

Developers/Publishers...look, I get it. This doesn't show up in screenshots and it doesn't look sexy at all but...

Can we please focus on the Intelligence part of AI? You've got Artificial down to a T but that stands for more than one word you know...

I can't remember the last time a game actually out-smarted me. I can think of games where it outplays me because it can break the mechanics while I can't (sport games/racing games). I can think of games where it just makes the guys stronger and a bigger pain in the ass to fight (uh...like...everything). I can think of games where the computer just becomes more skillful than even the greatest athletes in existence (fuck you Jackal Snipers in Halo 2's Legendary Mode!!!).

Maybe it's my fault for not playing the right games but I swear, it's hard to find a game that fights like a human. Why can't Madden realize I'm running the same play every time and adapt to stop it? Why can't when I duck down under cover in a shooter that the AI doesn't advance forward since it's enemy (me) is busy cowering (or at least throw a damn grenade my way)? Why can't the AI attempt to flank me? Why can't the AI use deception to make me think it's one way and then it shows up on the other side?

Why have I never lost a game and tipped my hat at the computer for outfoxing me?
the silence said:
I like the complaint about AI. I think since F.E.A.R we never got a game which marketed/got praised because of its AI.
small said:
Ai definitely. there was all this praise for the nemesis system in shadow over mordor but it was also something we could of had 10 years ago. nothing has changed ai wise for a decade at the very outside
Speaking of A.I., there's the issue of difficulty levels in general. Mostly what I've found when difficulty levels go up is the game either crippling the player's statistics and/or boosting the opponent's so that the difficulty comes simply from the enemy lasting a bit longer and thus winning through sheer attrition rather than because the enemy's A.I. actually becomes more competent, and that's when the increase in difficulty isn't simply the result of the game breaking it's own rules outright, such as fighting games that have the computer detecting the player's controller inputs instead of predicting the player's moves or properly reacting to them like a human opponent would. Generally for most video games the same tactics the player learns to beat the game at normal will work at hard or very hard, it just takes longer.
 

RJ 17

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Dirty Hipsters said:
You don't pay less for a 90 minute movie than you do for a 3 hour movie when you go to the movies. You don't pay less for a 200 page book than you do for a 600 page book when you go to a book store. Why should you pay less for a 5 hour game than you do for a 15 hour game?
Yeah but...

Of course the counter argument is that other entertainment mediums generally cost significantly less than most video games, and that video games take a lot more investment on the part of the consumer in order to play them at all, which makes them different from other entertainment media.
Oh...well...thanks for saving me the trouble of pointing that out, then. :p

I believe I mentioned I don't think games should be priced purely on length...if I didn't, I certainly meant to/should have. And I'm not claiming I know the answer to this question either. What I do know is that there are new games that come out that aren't priced at $60, proof that the developer putting that game out is aware that it's not necessarily "worth" a full $60. Granted, this is usually the case with remasters and such, but it's proof-of-concept that if you're aware you're not providing a game with "full value" (a completely ambiguous term, I know) worth $60 then you don't have to price it at $60.
 

rgrekejin

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Vault101 said:
Fappy said:
I think gender, race, etc, discussions are inherently political, but it doesn't mean they should be dismissed. For the record I don't agree with the site's stated direction and hope they change their mind about it.
of coarse EVERYTHING is inherently political
...I'm sorry, but what? No, not EVERYTHING is inherently political, almost everything is apolitical. Although I will grant you that the proliferation of this ridiculous "the personal is political" mindset is beginning to succeed in turning previously apolitical things into political footballs, I doubt that's an occurrence most reasonable people would regard as a *good* thing.
 

StreamerDarkly

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Vault101 said:
StriderShinryu said:
I agree, but at the same time it's become fairly obvious that too many people just can't handle actual discussion about these sorts of topics.
I'll sadly agree...to the point where GG should really be ghettoized

I don't agree with the "take no sides" mentality, you don't have to treat both "sides" as equal because sometimes they fucking *aren't*

sorry...have to dial down the rant-o-meter
You might be surprised to learn that not giving a toss about identity politics in games doesn't equate to not being able to handle discussion on the topic. It would be more accurate to say people have grown tired of the vocal minority of social justice advocates blowing the trumpet about how fucking paramount it is.

What's more, after being fobbed off by anyone who seeks to discuss more relevant aspects of games, these campaigners immediately begin raving about how immature everyone is for not engaging in their pet agenda ... kind of like you're doing in this thread. The negative reactions that follow are then held up as evidence that "manbabies are harassing me and trying to silence my special voice".

The cycle repeats.
 

Silvanus

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StreamerDarkly said:
You might be surprised to learn that not giving a toss about identity politics in games doesn't equate to not being able to handle discussion on the topic. It would be more accurate to say people have grown tired of the vocal minority of social justice advocates blowing the trumpet about how fucking paramount it is.

You're right, it doesn't equate to it. Disagreeing about what matters is fine and dandy. Lately, though, have been these calls for social commentary or storyline discussion to be removed from reviews and gaming articles and such, which... well, goes beyond disagreement. It becomes a demand that gaming journalism must reflect what you[footnote]The general 'you'.[/footnote] want, and screw everyone else, with their different priorities.
 

Timeless Lavender

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One of the things that bother me about gaming is the lack of exotic settings. I am a tad sick of RPG that set at medieval Europe or this "Tolkien" like setting which is high fantasy with Dragons. Basically anything that is like the lord of the ring, Harry potter or even Game of thrones type of setting, they are red flags for me. I also hate Sci-fi setting (Thanks Stars Wars, Star trek or whatever game developers can not stop copying from) NB: This maybe why I am not interested in RPG's as I should.

Settings I would loved to explore in a RPG are:
1) Egyptian/ Middle east
2) Hawaii
3) Inca/Mayan/Caribbean (Amerindians or something)
4)African style

Another thing is the characters and story in general. The reason I play games is to experience a character that I am not familiar with or a setting that I am not accustom to, NOT some generic, boring, "relatable" (apparently people relate to boring, no personality characters) I want diverse characters with interesting stories. So no archetypes, stereotypes or any token characters that showcase the sign of incompetent writers or game designer.

CAP: Yup the reason why some games are so bland is simply the industry