One could always point out to the tree huggers the cost of everything they are using at the moment in animal lives. Farms disembowel thousands if not millions of cute little bunnies each year during harvest. Not to say how much death is involved in the roads they drive on, the rubber for their bike tires, the poster board they protest with, etc etc. Not even counting the amount of infrastructure required to ***** on the internet about inhumanity.Casual Shinji said:
''It's frowned upon.''
- Thread starter TheSeventhLoneWolf
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finding out on my own how to change add/remove DNA from parts of the body in a Bio 30 class so that you could make adjustments, like strengthening muscles in the arms, legs, and so on, along with bieng able to change the body in whatever way you see fit, before bieng told it was "unethical"
but that's just me.
but that's just me.
I'm afraid that is just part of getting older. People start to feel more vulnerable, and misinterpret a good deed as somebody trying to screw you over.vaderaider said:
OT: I never did understand the taboo that is putting rubbish in somebody else's bin. If it's something ridiculously big, like an entire sack of rubbish, that's fair enough to get pissed about, but when I'm walking down the street, finish my can of coke and chuck it in the nearby trash can of somebody's house, why do they get up in arms over it? Would you rather I threw it onto your lawn?
Yeah, but that would mean reasoning with animal-rights activists.DeathWyrmNexus said:
...You see the conundrum there?
It would seem that way, but let me ask you this: when someone mentions that they're vegan, how many people jump at their throats? Anyone who believes in anything can "preach" about how they're right - including many atheists - and it makes sense to engage people in moral issues, combat misconceptions, and express oneself. What's relevant isn't whether or not one speaks about his or her beliefs, but the reasons for those beliefs. But that's not the point of this thread.Miumaru said:
Being vegan is unseemly to many who belong to the mainstream. "It's frowned upon." Vegans may frown upon those who consume animal products, but it goes both ways, and I'm the one being judged by the mainstream. Regardless of whether or not you agree with moral vegans, my post remains relevant.
Exactly! Eye for an eye will only make the world blind, and all that. I know it's tough, but the only way to ensure people will behave nice towards you is if you are nice towards them.Camembert said:Attitudes like yours are the reason for that. 'Everyone else is a bastard, why should I be nice?'Quid Plura said:I know, but everywhere I go, it seems to be true. In Holland, there's even a commercial which roughly translates to "how to deal with nice people".Drauden said:What a positive way of life.Quid Plura said:
I generally try to live after "do unto others what you would have them do unto you." It's very tough at times, but I think it's worth it. There's nothing like lifting someone's spirit simply by smiling at them and being nice to them. You just have to keep on going even when the going gets tough, though I admit it can be very hard to keep up at times.
Anyway, yeah, I completely agree with you; it is because attitudes such as the one you mentioned that most people are dicks. The best thing you can do is simply try to break the vicious cycle and be a little nice.
I think most people would rather you hold on to your rubbish and put it in your own bin. I'm not saying what's right and wrong, but a bin is still someone's property and you using it without asking could well be an affront to them, as petty as that may be.Fragamoo said:
As for the topic, I can't think of anything off hand. Most of my good gestures don't tend to come back and bite me thankfully.
You think that maybe keeping millions of animals in crowded captivity for their whole lives, with all the boredom and suffering that entails, for frivolous reasons (such as producing food that provides nutrients which we can get elsewhere) is a different issue than running over wildlife in a regrettable instant?DeathWyrmNexus said:
And let's not forget that hypocrisy doesn't null arguments. Someone may not practice what they preach. That may be a personal failing, but that doesn't mean that what they preach isn't correct. You have to address arguments, not attack the people making them. Ad hominem attacks are intellectually dishonest.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html
I and my group of friends got the cops called on us once for caroling. To be fair it was in March, and pathetically enough none of us actually remembered all the words to most of the songs we were singing, but still!! (Surprisingly enough alcohol was not involved in this story, just bored teenagers)
I'm sorry but why would the complain? I mean, shit, it's going to be taken to the curb anyway... without my doing it.
Whatever guy.
Anyway, um... meh. Can't remember any specific things.
Whatever guy.
Anyway, um... meh. Can't remember any specific things.
Yeah, but not untill after it's skinned, though, right?Shoqiyqa said:
I mean, that escaped fur is costing somebody money.
People putting their litter in my wheely bin used to piss me off immensely, because where I used to live the Bin-men could refuse to empty your bins if there was a single piece of rubbish that wasn't in a black bin bag, which would mean that my bin wouldn't be emptied for another 2 weeks and I couldn't put any more rubbish in it, just because someone else didn't consider the rules that everyone in the city has to abide by.Tallim said:
It is petty, but when the Council imposes such penalties to encourage people to recycle, and when the Bin-men will use any excuse to empty less bins (in the case of a drinks can, they can cite Health & Safety regulations and recycling rules), then having your bin collection sabotaged by other people is a valid reason to be pissed off.
Oh, so paving a road, which cuts through a forest, which cuts through a migration path, which puts millions more of animals in the path of cars is different then the same amount being killed for food? Oops, I killed one rabbit paving a road. Good thing I'm not responsible for any more deaths. If you kill for food, then you are simply participating in a natural processes. Animal A is stronger than Animal B. Animal A eats B, gaining nutrients to survive. It's a food chain. Humans are at the top of the food chain. To retain the natural dominance, we kill animals that challenge us, and we exploit the position (at the top) no more than a lion exploiting a herd of prey. It's natural. It always will be, because humans are part of nature. Because we have higher thinking patterns does not make us less natural. Buildings are natural, because humans built them using traits that were developed through evolution (which can coexist with religion, but that's another argument). The buildings are our nests. A bird's nest doesn't grow on trees, but is it natural? Yes, because it was built in a natural processes. The two examples you provided are not different, because they are both examples of humans exercising the rights given to the creature at the top of the food chain. Lions hunt in a pack to trap a herd for food=humans trap chickens in a large group for food. Humans run over wildlife=shark eating a minnow along with a seal. They aren't different, just on different scales. How is a farmer that trap animals different than a lion that provides for other members of the pride? Your two examples are the same because they are both natural.ThrobbingEgo said:
EDIT: No, I'm not saying that farm animals can't be treated better, just that it's the food chain on a larger scale.
Hypocrisy is important because it weakens your message. Debate fallacy or not, it is infinitely easier to make condemning comments from the sidelines than to keep to your own message. Also, in your message, Bill is technically speaking from experience, smells horrid, and is probably coughing, which adds to the message. Like a rape victim saying rape is bad. A yuppie complaining about the plight of animals while he wears equally disgustingly produced leather is just sounding like a douchebag. Bit of a difference there but don't let me get in the way of your moral high ground.ThrobbingEgo said:
Also, I don't really care about chickens. So no... Besides, I take it you never read about the fact that fat content from animals is how we evolved our brains in the first place? That higher mental functions came from the higher energy found in animal fat? I am all for free range but inevitably, I have bigger problems.