It's Happening; DoA....

[Phasmal]

Of course that begs the question, how would you designs a male character that is eye candy to women, but doesn't qualify as a "power fantasy" for men?

I love how people ask this like it's actually a difficult question.
It's not hard to find what women generally find sexy in our fake dudes. If you're low on ideas, I'd suggest things like Deviantart, tumblr, couple yaoi mangas maybe. I'm sure you'll find something.

Eye candy men tend to be leaner, rather than a brick shit-house like Kratos.

Spoiler: Linking this again

We have a lack of men looking like this in games not because media people are just scratching their heads in confusion about what the wimminz like to look at, but because they worry it will make men uncomfortable.
And like, fine- you guys are `target audience` so whatever, but let's not pretend it's a mystery.

EDIT: And just pre-emptively, no, I don't have a problem with DoA. Just throwing that out there because I can see there are people keen on protecting it from... something. I'm not attacking DoA. Tit games are just tit games.

EDIT2:

Spoiler: Power fantasy?

EDIT3 because why not: Also I should point out I don't think it's an either/or with power fantasy/sexy character. A lot of ladies have the hots for Dante. Old Dante that is, not so much New Dante.

 

[MerlinCross]

I just said its the arguement, not that I agree with it, personally I think it's bunk myself as I do tend to gel with smaller leaner dudes more than brick houses covered in meat. Of course I tend to favor more magic and stealth play styles, so...

I'm not trying to say "durrrr what do the womenz want" because pretty sure most don't want brick houses. But the way I worded it is probably how some in the industry think. Lemme try to reword it since you seemed to take offense; "How do we make male characters that appeal to women without making the target male uncomfortable(Oh whaaa)"? Oh I dunno just make a damn character that looks like they could exist sounds like a good starting point.

But this is starting to roam from the topic and I find it hard to organize my word on iPod. We can take this to PM if you want.

 

[CritialGaming]

Hahaha, DoA has a weird respect from me, I mean, with so much free porn on the internet- I'm really surprised how much money they're able to make off of their weird wobbly doll-people. It's impressive!

Personally, it's not a game for me, but I'm not against it existing (even if I find the boob psychics a bit disturbing)- though I think we need more half-naked men games.
And not in a gross Kratos kind of way.

DOA (the main fighters not the beach game) has quite a few men too. And they don't wobble like their pecks are sentient, either!

It's funny how people will look at the hot chicks and scream about these images promoting a certain body type for women and proclaiming that these images set woman to an unrealistic standard of looks. This leads to woman having self-esteem issues as they look around and see heroines with Victoria's Secret bodies and suffer from depression and eating disorders because they don't look like these hourglass figured, big titted video game gals.

But nobody gives too fucks about men. I don't know about the rest of you people. But I've never seem anyone look like Marcus Pheonix, or Kratos, or any number of perfectly cut men with rugged good looks and 8-pack abs. What about my body image? What about my depression as I Twinkee myself further and further from looking like Ryu, or Ken? Oh that's right....I am a man and therefore nobody gives a shit about how I feel about my body because penis!

These arguments about sexism and exploitation of women in video games is not only a one-sided argument because everyone ignores the fact that men can make almost the exact same arguments themselves, especially about body types and overt masculinity...But it is also incredibly stupid! THESE ARE IMAGINARY CHARACTERS! They are make believe! There is no exploitation because they are little more than computer drawings, pixals on a screen with a little bit of animation! There is no exploitation of women because there are NO women!

That's like saying I can't draw a pair of tits on a piece of paper because i am exploiting the paper. Fuck you. If I wanna draw tits on a elf-girl, then I'm gonna do it and you can go shove it up your butt.

Damn I hate quoting large posts but on iPod, anyway:

I believe the counter arguement for the big strong buff guys is that they are male power fantasy. YOU are playing this buff icon of maleness l, he is supposed to represent YOU. He is not there to be ogled but to project ourselves onto l, a proxy if you will.

Of course that begs the question, how would you designs a male character that is eye candy to women, but doesn't qualify as a "power fantasy" for men?

You know the male power fantasy may have worked before the age of voice over and character development. When these buff awesome dude were essentially blank personality slates in which us players could name themselves in game it gave us a projection of our ID's onto a gaming space.

But now these guys like Kratos and Nathan Drake, and even Master Chief to a somewhat lesser extent all have their own personalities, they are their own people. They have become full fledged people in their own rights and now players merely take control for the ride rather than feeling like they can project themselves into the world.

We are ob servers upon these character's lives. So yes, now it is perfectly rational for even men to feel ashamed of their bodies when compared to masculine perfection of beloved characters.

Also by making the power fantasy argument you essentially make my point of, "because I am a man I am not allowed to ***** about my feelings because bullshit reasons".

And while you want to make that excuse. Can I not tell women the same shit? You play the hot, big titted Lara Croft because it is a power fantasy for women.

Or does it not work both ways?

It is fucking bullshit and people know it. But everyone has to ***** about something because apparently SJW's have to ***** about fictional characters in video games rather than taking on a real issue like excessive force used by police. But okay then fight to make Lara Croft's tits smaller instead of maybe figuring out how to make Healthcare work.

 

[Phasmal]

I just said its the arguement, not that I agree with it, personally I think it's bunk myself as I do tend to gel with smaller leaner dudes more than brick houses covered in meat. Of course I tend to favor more magic and stealth play styles, so...

I'm not trying to say "durrrr what do the womenz want" because pretty sure most don't want brick houses. But the way I worded it is probably how some in the industry think. Lemme try to reword it since you seemed to take offense; "How do we make male characters that appeal to women without making the target male uncomfortable(Oh whaaa)"? Oh I dunno just make a damn character that looks like they could exist sounds like a good starting point.

But this is starting to roam from the topic and I find it hard to organize my word on iPod. We can take this to PM if you want.

Oh no, sorry, I took no offence. It's just I've seen the question so many times. We have it sometimes pop up, and the female Escapists try our best to answer it, and then it pops up again soon after. A little frustrating.
But I do see what you're getting at.
Dante, Nathan Drake, those kind of guys, I think- are power fantasies while also not looking like they're half Super Mutant. Those kind of characters seem to be a nice middle ground.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The only issue I take with this line of argument, especially for a fighting game, is that it presumes the only reason men play as women is to "ogle" them.

First and foremost, you don't look at who you use in a fighting game if you're playing on a high level, you focus on your foe, only keeping track of your own character with your peripheral vision, so as to be ready to react to what they do and just "know" where your own char is without focusing on them through intuition an experience, so this line of reasoning is flat out wrong.

Secondly, and most importantly, it disregards the actual reasons a lot of people choose to use these chars, reasons identical to the reasons they may choose to use a male char. What sort of genitalia the char who did an izuna drop from the roof of a building has in their pants doesn't matter, what matters is that THEY DID AN IZUNA DROP FROM THE TOP OF A BUILDING!


To not see this, to not see that generally speaking this is what people are actually looking for when they pick these kinds of characters just shouts to me that whoever's talking doesn't actually understand anything and uses a ton of imagined guesses they pulled out of thin air to justify their position.



One tends to like a char like this:




For the same reason one likes a char like this:

Of course that begs the question, how would you designs a male character that is eye candy to women, but doesn't qualify as a "power fantasy" for men?

I love how people ask this like it's actually a difficult question.
It's not hard to find what women generally find sexy in our fake dudes. If you're low on ideas, I'd suggest things like Deviantart, tumblr, couple yaoi mangas maybe. I'm sure you'll find something.

Eye candy men tend to be leaner, rather than a brick shit-house like Kratos.

Spoiler: Linking this again

We have a lack of men looking like this in games not because media people are just scratching their heads in confusion about what the wimminz like to look at, but because they worry it will make men uncomfortable.
And like, fine- you guys are `target audience` so whatever, but let's not pretend it's a mystery.

I think this "it makes men uncomfortable" thing is kind of a false stereotype or they gathered it from questioning 13 year old boys or something. I played Hakuoki (the ps3 ver), which is basically what you describe but more anime-style. You may know it. I just played it cause the story is good. I don't mind the (what I presume to be, I'm too straight to notice it most of the time or something lol) fanservice for girls thrown in. I like Shinsengumi stories. I like romance. Playing from the perspective of a girl doesn't bother me since this is fiction and the best trait of fiction is putting you in perspectives not your own. I don't get why anyone would mind this, in either gender's case.

 

[Phasmal]

Of course that begs the question, how would you designs a male character that is eye candy to women, but doesn't qualify as a "power fantasy" for men?

I love how people ask this like it's actually a difficult question.
It's not hard to find what women generally find sexy in our fake dudes. If you're low on ideas, I'd suggest things like Deviantart, tumblr, couple yaoi mangas maybe. I'm sure you'll find something.

Eye candy men tend to be leaner, rather than a brick shit-house like Kratos.

Spoiler: Linking this again

We have a lack of men looking like this in games not because media people are just scratching their heads in confusion about what the wimminz like to look at, but because they worry it will make men uncomfortable.
And like, fine- you guys are `target audience` so whatever, but let's not pretend it's a mystery.

I think this "it makes men uncomfortable" thing is kind of a false stereotype or they gathered it from questioning 13 year old boys or something. I played Hakuoki (the ps3 ver), which is basically what you describe but more anime-style. You may know it. I just played it cause the story is good. I don't mind the (what I presume to be, I'm too straight to notice it most of the time or something lol) fanservice for girls thrown in. I like Shinsengumi stories. I like romance. Playing from the perspective of a girl doesn't bother me since this is fiction and the best trait of fiction is putting you in perspectives not your own. I don't get why anyone would mind this, in either gender's case.

Yeah, I should point out I think that people in the gaming industry are far too blinded by focus-testing the Call Of Duty audience. They don't give people enough credit. I'm entirely sure that the majority of male gamers are not big babies who can't handle the idea of an attractive male.
It's the same problem we have in many areas of gaming though, they stick to `industry wisdom` because taking risks is scary to them.

Like, personally I'm fine with playing men. I will admit, I get kind of bored of it sometimes (especially when the characters are all the same `generic white guy stock character`)- but again that just gets down to the industry shying away from anything different out of fear.

 

[42]

Look i'm not going to lie, I'm actually pretty excited for this game. I don't give a crap if it's objectifying women, I just want to play it because I enjoyed the other games.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

So now I'm curious after the last page. Has there been a large "social justice outcry" about DoA Beach Volleyball: Alpha Tiger Tournament Edition: Redux?

All I'm seeing is chuckles and the odd "I bet the SJWs are mad, they're hypersensitive" bits.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Yeah, I should point out I think that people in the gaming industry are far too blinded by focus-testing the Call Of Duty audience. They don't give people enough credit. I'm entirely sure that the majority of male gamers are not big babies who can't handle the idea of an attractive male.
It's the same problem we have in many areas of gaming though, they stick to `industry wisdom` because taking risks is scary to them.

Like, personally I'm fine with playing men. I will admit, I get kind of bored of it sometimes (especially when the characters are all the same `generic white guy stock character`)- but again that just gets down to the industry shying away from anything different out of fear.

I get bored of them too. One of my fav games ever stars a wolf and an insect spirit. Wolf and insect. Much more interesting than brown haired middle aged western military otaku #27.

So now I'm curious after the last page. Has there been a large "social justice outcry" about DoA Beach Volleyball: Alpha Tiger Tournament Edition: Redux?

All I'm seeing is chuckles and the odd "I bet the SJWs are mad, they're hypersensitive" bits.

It's not announced for non-asian locations yet and the presumption is that SJWs due to being nongamer hipster SJWs don't even know it exists yet, so people are just waiting until they find out and start decrying it, which presumably won't happen until DOA is officially announced or even released in western places.


I think most of it is based off of the reaction other, much less...in your face releases have been greeted with in the past. The funny thing is that more niche series like Senran Kagura didn't even get a peep, presumably since the SJWs are too nongamery to know about them if they're not being posted in big websites and get a lot of ads and whatnot.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I wonder if this time round the control of the actual volleyball game is better. I had Beach Spiker for the Gamecube and that was a way better game than DoAX ever was when it come to the sport.

Also I wonder how Anita will take the news (and lastly I remember this interview with the creator on why it doesn't have the DoA guys in it and the creator mention it was just obvious why it doesn't).

 

[go-10]

I wonder if this time round the control of the actual volleyball game is better. I had Beach Spiker for the Gamecube and that was a way better game than DoAX ever was when it come to the sport.

Also I wonder how Anita will take the news (and lastly I remember this interview with the creator on why it doesn't have the DoA guys in it and the creator mention it was just obvious why it doesn't).

that's one of the things I think about the most... I kinda want them to take a page from Mario Tennis when making the volleyball aspect of the game, add super moves, ultras, power blows, and make it more cinematic as if Trigger Studio was making a volleyball anime

I also hope the jet ski races are more like Wave Race than a simple around the track that it was last time

 

[Paragon Fury]

I wonder if this time round the control of the actual volleyball game is better. I had Beach Spiker for the Gamecube and that was a way better game than DoAX ever was when it come to the sport.

Also I wonder how Anita will take the news (and lastly I remember this interview with the creator on why it doesn't have the DoA guys in it and the creator mention it was just obvious why it doesn't).

Poorly, I suspect, considering she is one of the primary drivers of the new anti-anything-men-like feminism drive in gaming.