Its hard being a DC fan. (Rant)

[Cicada 5]

The Avengers were a team of six against enemies that were as threatening as the Putties from Power Rangers. Steve takes a shot to the stomach from one of them and is never seen needing any medical attention. Almost everytime Superman engaged the Kryptonians he was outnumbered while fighting enemies more ruthless and experienced in battle.

And no Superman does not destroy any building unless you count being thrown into them by Zod as destroying them and even then we saw some of them as empty.

More ruthless and experienced in battle? Maybe. They've also had their powers for only a couple of days... some of them for only minutes. They just got to Earth, where the gravity differential gives them some of their powers, while most of them aren't unlocked for them until they're out of their bio-suits.

And yes, poor cg Superman was throwing poor cg Zod into buildings as well, and I saw no empty buildings. I saw the one rooftop they were stayed for a few seconds as being under construction, so it's possible that the rest of the building was as well, but every other building had plenty of lights on and there were constant shots of people in the streets watching and traffic everywhere. I mean hell, Superman was the one that threw Zod into Grand Central or whatever the Metropolis equivalent is, which was chock full of people. And they started from space at that point! Sure, Zod started them on the way down, but once Supes got the upper hand he could have tried to stay up there or veer away from the people, but nope, right into the goshdarn heart of the city.

ANd Clark has never used his powers in combat before and only learned he could fly a day before Zod's invasion. Plus, these Kryptonians are bred for war making their adaptation to their abilities happen much faster. This has also happened in the comics and related Superman media.

Here's the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnAw3E_mLh8

At 0:42 They crash into a building that is already collapsing.

0:45 the building they're fighting in is empty.

Up until they head to space, Zod is the one smashing Superman into things or smashing through things to get to Clark. There is Clark dragging Zod's face through the side of a building but that's it. When they head into space, ZOd throws half a satellite at Clark then takes advantage of his distraction to tackle him. Clark barely manages to get the upper hand as they touch down and the reason he can't steer him away is because he has to 100% focused on Zod who is not an inanimate object but a thinking, moving person.

 

[Mangod]

So, here's a question for you guys? How profitable has this movie been for WB?

Now, according to most sources I've seen, BvS had a total budget of around $400 million ($250 for making the Movie, $150 for marketing). And according to Box Office Mojo, it's made $868m, rounding up. Since the studio only sees half the box office gross (meaning a movie has to make twice its budget to break even), it'd put the total profit WB has seen from this at $34m.

Is $34 million really worth it to WB to keep making these movies? The Avengers had a similar budget, far as I've heard, but it also pulled in $1.5 billion dollars at the box office, which would put it's profits in the range of $350 million.

Is the DCEU really worth it to WB at this point, given the risks of them suffering a legit bomb?

 

[mduncan50]

So, here's a question for you guys? How profitable has this movie been for WB?

Now, according to most sources I've seen, BvS had a total budget of around $400 million ($250 for making the Movie, $150 for marketing). And according to Box Office Mojo, it's made $868m, rounding up. Since the studio only sees half the box office gross (meaning a movie has to make twice its budget to break even), it'd put the total profit WB has seen from this at $34m.

Is $34 million really worth it to WB to keep making these movies? The Avengers had a similar budget, far as I've heard, but it also pulled in $1.5 billion dollars at the box office, which would put it's profits in the range of $350 million.

Is the DCEU really worth it to WB at this point, given the risks of them suffering a legit bomb?

I think the earning POTENTIAL is definitely still there, but they just don't seem to be learning from their mistakes. I honestly don't know what the options of the execs are right now beyond going full steam ahead. They have invested so much already in movies that are in different stages of production that putting the breaks on things, or even just slowing down would be difficult and costly. To even think about up and cancelling the whole shebang... that would pretty much be career suicide for the people making those decisions, and could possibly take down the studio as a whole depending on investor reaction. I choose to just hope they'll get rid of Snyder and Goyer and turn this whole thing around. Hell, maybe hire Marvel Studios to do some consulting on the DL for a little while if that's what it takes.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

So, here's a question for you guys? How profitable has this movie been for WB?

Now, according to most sources I've seen, BvS had a total budget of around $400 million ($250 for making the Movie, $150 for marketing). And according to Box Office Mojo, it's made $868m, rounding up. Since the studio only sees half the box office gross (meaning a movie has to make twice its budget to break even), it'd put the total profit WB has seen from this at $34m.

Hell, maybe hire Marvel Studios to do some consulting on the DL for a little while if that's what it takes.

No No No No No.

I do not want Kevin Faige to monopolize Superhero movies

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The thing I hate about most regarding Batman v Superman is that how much of a self fufilling prophecy this ended up becoming.

What could have been simply a Man of Steel 2 became this. It started with just bringing in Batman for damage control after the "failure" of Man of Steel. Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman. If you end up having Superman doing exactly what you expect Superman to do, everyone will complain that he is too OP and too one dimensional to be an interesting character.

Then they showed Wonder Woman and called the movie Dawn of Justice and that title got mocked aswell.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

Then one trailer revealed Doomsday which honestly his design does not look as terrible as the earlier concept designs they were going with:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/dea14715627a4c2afc37766c32996806/tumblr_o52bswMSj91rov369o6_1280.jpg

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

And now Civil War came out and of course people are saying this is how BvS should have been.

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

No just no keep the tone the way it is other wise if it ends up being exactly like the MCU it will be increadibly redundant I mean there is already a Superhero bubble so why should DC end up looking more like the MCU in the exact tone and look?

I just want my Zack Snyder DC movies because he has talent he knows how to make Comic Boook movies he proclaims he grew up reading comic books and I believe him and he makes action that is 10x better then any movie I have seen in theaters. And he is NOT MICHAEL BAY!!

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

The thing about znyder is, he just cant write. He has made 2 good movies to my knowledge. 300 and Watchmen. Both good movies in their own way (if you like that sort of thing), but he already had the source material, and 300 is not exactly Shakespeare.

He can direct relatively well, but no matter how you look at it BvS was a fucking MESS.

Man of Steel was a mixed bag for me. When I came out of the theatre I wanted to murder Znyder for doing what he did to superman, but when I had time to cool off...I could see that many of the things that was done was ok.

Pa Kent: This never bothered me too much, and in time I appreciate that he didnt want Clark to expose himself. He just didnt trust people that much. Which is FINE, it actually adds something to Clarks character, and gives him something emotional to overcome. Its a good thing.

Emo Supes: It was ok in Man of steel. It was a butterfly story, he was becoming Superman, he didnt start out that way.

The destruction/failure to save EVERYONE: It was fine. It was the "realistic" side of superhero movies. If superman had to fight someone as powerful as himself, what are the odds, really, that he would be able to dictate the fight? Slim to none.

However, as soon as BvS was announced I was sceptical, and I was wrong. It was a lot worse than I expected.

1; Emos everywhere: If both Supes and Bats are emos, they cant bounce off each other. They need to be different, or they wont work together. This was my thought before the movie, and it was confirmed in the worst kind of way.

2; Crazy lex: I dont care if it was lex's son or whatever. IT WAS A BAD LEX. His acting was all over the place, inconsistent, and for a person that unstable to outsmart the greatest detective ever....lame. SO lame.

3; Screentime: For some reason, that governor-lady got a hell of a lot of screentime. No one cared about her, and no one wanted to know anything about her. Why couldnt we had some more character development of lois, or clark, or bats?

4; visions/dreams: Absolutely unecessary and wholly time-consuming without furthering the plot.

5; walking in straw in slow motion: Holy fucking slow-mo Znyder! I realise he likes it, but when every second scene is in slow motion it kinda loses its impact. In addition it is eating up valuable time for characterization.

Man of steel was a mixed bag. For my own part I ended up liking it more than I disliked it.

BvS was a trainwreck of epic proportions. It failed on more or less every conceivable level, and was simply a BAD movie.

If Znyder is kicked off the team I will be exctatic. If he stays he needs some GOOD writers, and some strict direction himself.

When did emo = bad?

And I am of the opinion that BvS is not a bad movie according to my standards because I have seen Bad movies. I have seen awful movies. To throw this movie with the likes of Birdemic, The Room, Foodfight, Gigli, and Uwe Boll's films etc. is just wrong.

Heck I did not think most 2000s Marvel movies like Ang Lee's Hulk and Fantastic Four and even fuckin Daredevil were not that bad of a movies.

Slow motion is better then shaky cam and 300 would have felt neutered without it.

 

[RJ 17]

It's simple, really...DC did what most game studios do when they're trying to keep up with a fad in the gaming industry: rush out a half-assed project that's completely heartless and bland, so long as it meets the check boxes for what's "in" right now then the studio doesn't care, and right now people are enjoying the superhero mash-up movies that Marvel has provided. As such, DC wanted to try and cash in on this.

However - and this has to have been mentioned before already - DC hasn't earned the mash-up movie yet. Marvel established Cap'n, Iron Man, and Thor (and to a lesser extent even Black Widow and Hawk Eye) before they gave us the first Avengers movie. That movie didn't need any additional character development because we already knew these characters, their personalities, and what they're about.

DC gave us a Superman movie...featuring only Superman...then wanted to stuff the entire frickin' Justice League into the next movie? Ease on out of the saddle there, cowboy...you've got some more prep work to do before you're ready to ride that pony. This is why BvS was shat all over as being a bloated, meandering head-scratcher that left people thinking "Wait...what?" (and that's best case scenario). You've got all these characters now that need to be introduced and developed in order to give a cohesive, fleshed-out, and enjoyable story and DC just rushed it out because they wanted to compete with Civil War.

 

[RJ 17]

When did emo = bad?

No one wants to see their comic book heroes moping around. It's fine if you have one mopey hero that someone has to pull out of the dumps so they can start being heroic again, but when you've got two of the biggest names in the super hero book having an emo-off with one another, one can't help but roll their eyes.

And I am of the opinion that BvS is not a bad movie according to my standards because I have seen Bad movies. I have seen awful movies. To throw this movie with the likes of Birdemic, The Room, Foodfight, Gigli, and Uwe Boll's films etc. is just wrong.

There's a difference though: expectations. Everyone expects movies like Birdemic, The Room, Foodfight, Gigli, and Use Boll's catalogue to be an absolute shit-fest. People have higher expectations for a major studio like WB creating a massive budget super hero movie. Yet what we ended up with was a movie that might as well have been helmed by Uwe Boll.

Heck I did not think most 2000s Marvel movies like Ang Lee's Hulk and Fantastic Four and even fuckin Daredevil were not that bad of a movies.

I won't insult your taste here, but simply say that we disagree...and by "we" I mean the countless masses that saw those movies for the crap they were, which includes myself.

Slow motion is better then shaky cam and 300 would have felt neutered without it.

300 got away with it because of how heavily stylized it was. You can't just take 300's format and slap it into every movie you make otherwise the slow-mo bursts get really old, really fast.

Kinda like Abram's obsession with lens flares. :3

 

[Dandymanx]

I am honestly at a loss as to why DC/WB keep squirting so much money trying to play catch up with the MCU.

The TV and Animated stuff DC makes (or farms out) pretty much schools anything Marvel* are doing (although Arrow is starting to slide badly) but not content with quite a lot of the moneys they have chosen the expensive all of the moneys movie route, and you can make an awful lot of telly for movie money

*I've excluded the very fine Daredevil and Jessica Jones shows in this assessment as I suspect they wouldn't have happened without Netflix

 

[tzimize]

-snip-

When did emo = bad?

And I am of the opinion that BvS is not a bad movie according to my standards because I have seen Bad movies. I have seen awful movies. To throw this movie with the likes of Birdemic, The Room, Foodfight, Gigli, and Uwe Boll's films etc. is just wrong.

Heck I did not think most 2000s Marvel movies like Ang Lee's Hulk and Fantastic Four and even fuckin Daredevil were not that bad of a movies.

Slow motion is better then shaky cam and 300 would have felt neutered without it.

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of a bad movie.

Is it a B-movie? Not by any stretch. Does it fail where it should succeed? Most definately.

It LOOKS fantastic, for the most part. It is acted...somewhat competently. But it is just dumb and chaotic.

The opening scene with Bruce Wayne is GREAT. But from then on the movie takes a nosedive.

Lex or whoever it is (his son?) is spectacularly bad. You can almost HEAR the suits going "people liked joker, do him like that and we get the big bucks". His motivations are all over the place, it is not even slightly believable that he could 1up Batman (and in this case an experienced, cynical batman) so thoroughly. And his decisionmaking in the end is just....what? Why did he create doomsday? It made no sense.

Batman has a ton of stupid dream sequences that does NOTHING To further the plot and takes up precious time. We already know he is paranoid and hates superman. And was it Flash jumping in with the speed force? I had no idea what was happening and I am pretty geeky when it comes to comics. That governor lady, while decently acted has NO place in the movie besided being a plot device Luthor can show off his crazyness to and she takes up tons of time that could be spent developing Batman and Supermans relationship. Or Batman and Wonderwomans relationship. Or Superman and Lois' relationship....ANY relationship. The only other scene from the movie that was any good was when batman beat up that group of thugs towards the end. Excellent.

Also...that scene with the rest of the JLA...the casting....who the hell have they cast as Flash? And that Aquaman. I was terrified of this movie, because mopey dark characters like Batman work badly on their own. They need a Joker or a Catwoman or a Robin to bounce off of. A mopey Superman is NOT sufficient. And now we get mopey flash and mopey aquaman too? Seriously? A DC team up with team slice-our-wrist? If it wasnt so Emo I'd cry for humanity.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

The TV and Animated stuff DC makes (or farms out) pretty much schools anything Marvel* are doing (although Arrow is starting to slide badly) but not content with quite a lot of the moneys they have chosen the expensive all of the moneys movie route, and you can make an awful lot of telly for movie money

*I've excluded the very fine Daredevil and Jessica Jones shows in this assessment as I suspect they wouldn't have happened without Netflix

Arrow is starting to slide? You must be joking, the show strangled itself with a bowstring when the third season started. Supergirl, with all my like 40 minutes of experience with it, is complete trash. Legends of Tomorrow has promise, but still needs to find its feet. Flash is great, though as of late I am worried for the series. I don't see why you would exclude DD and JJ just because they're on Netflix.

And the animations? You've got to be kidding, these "modern" DC animations are just utter crap. They spit on the memory of everything that had come before them. Though you are right, the animations are better, because Marvel doesn't make them anymore.

Sorry for sounding like a negative Nancy, but Jesus it's sad to see the state DC is in right now. I am a DC guy, its second only to Star Wars in my mind. The reasons that they fuck everything up too, its so Goddamn infuriating. Young Justice and Green Lantern? Fuck that, let's pander to little kids who still enjoy fart jokes. A series that brings a beloved hero to the big screen, with awesome action and interesting storylines? Fuck you, we'll turn Arrow into amateur fanfiction, the ladies will dig that.

 

[mduncan50]

I am honestly at a loss as to why DC/WB keep squirting so much money trying to play catch up with the MCU.

The TV and Animated stuff DC makes (or farms out) pretty much schools anything Marvel* are doing (although Arrow is starting to slide badly) but not content with quite a lot of the moneys they have chosen the expensive all of the moneys movie route, and you can make an awful lot of telly for movie money

*I've excluded the very fine Daredevil and Jessica Jones shows in this assessment as I suspect they wouldn't have happened without Netflix

I don't understand why DD and JJ aren't included just because they are Netflix. It's no different than any other network. They provide the funding, and receive the broadcast rights for the finished product. Everything is still being made by Marvel. I think the "Netflix Originals" tag causes some confusion for people, they don't actually produce any of their own shows.

While I agree that DC Animated is ahead of the game in the that area, I've not seen anything of interest with their live action shows, though I would be lying if I said I've really given it a hard look, I never watch shows on actual TV anymore. Still think it was a big mistake to keep the TV and movie properties separate, because regardless of my own preference I know there are a lot of people that really enjoy their shows, and it must disappoint fans when characters from the TV shows are played by different people in the movies, and vice versa.

 

[Cicada 5]

The TV and Animated stuff DC makes (or farms out) pretty much schools anything Marvel* are doing (although Arrow is starting to slide badly) but not content with quite a lot of the moneys they have chosen the expensive all of the moneys movie route, and you can make an awful lot of telly for movie money

*I've excluded the very fine Daredevil and Jessica Jones shows in this assessment as I suspect they wouldn't have happened without Netflix

Arrow is starting to slide? You must be joking, the show strangled itself with a bowstring when the third season started. Supergirl, with all my like 40 minutes of experience with it, is complete trash. Legends of Tomorrow has promise, but still needs to find its feet. Flash is great, though as of late I am worried for the series. I don't see why you would exclude DD and JJ just because they're on Netflix.

And the animations? You've got to be kidding, these "modern" DC animations are just utter crap. They spit on the memory of everything that had come before them. Though you are right, the animations are better, because Marvel doesn't make them anymore.

Sorry for sounding like a negative Nancy, but Jesus it's sad to see the state DC is in right now. I am a DC guy, its second only to Star Wars in my mind. The reasons that they fuck everything up too, its so Goddamn infuriating. Young Justice and Green Lantern? Fuck that, let's pander to little kids who still enjoy fart jokes. A series that brings a beloved hero to the big screen, with awesome action and interesting storylines? Fuck you, we'll turn Arrow into amateur fanfiction, the ladies will dig that.

The Supergirl tv show seems to have gotten quite strong fan base who see it as a good alternative to the DCEU. I'm not fond of Teen Titans Go but is gets high ratings and there are at least plans to get Young Justice a third season. And there is the upcoming cartoon starring Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman.

 

[Dandymanx]

Okay maybe was a bit harsh to exclude DD and JJ but AoS is so terrible it almost undoes all their good work

Also am a bit behind on Arrow, as I don't have Sky TV, hauled myself to the end of S3, and I think that's most likely enough, although I do want to see the Constantine episode

As for the animations, maybe some of them aren't great but I'd rather they made 10, meaning at least 4 or so would be good, rather than the all eggs in one basket tactic of big budget movies, also The Brave and The Bold still cheers me up even if it is a tad goofy and silly, but thats what happens when you pilfer from the Silver Age I guess

 

[mduncan50]

Okay maybe was a bit harsh to exclude DD and JJ but AoS is so terrible it almost undoes all their good work

Also am a bit behind on Arrow, as I don't have Sky TV, hauled myself to the end of S3, and I think that's most likely enough, although I do want to see the Constantine episode

As for the animations, maybe some of them aren't great but I'd rather they made 10, meaning at least 4 or so would be good, rather than the all eggs in one basket tactic of big budget movies, also The Brave and The Bold still cheers me up even if it is a tad goofy and silly, but thats what happens when you pilfer from the Silver Age I guess

Nothing wrong with being a bit silly at times, you just need to convince WB/DC of that.

 

[Kyman102]

As I said, its a more realistic view of superhero fighting.

Y'know what? If I wanted realistic I wouldn't be watching a goddamn Superman movie. I don't watch Superhero shows and movies for a 'real world' look at superheroes. Most often because people use "But realistic!" for the reason why everything sucks in this setting.

 

[DefunctTheory]

...also The Brave and The Bold still cheers me up even if it is a tad goofy and silly, but thats what happens when you pilfer from the Silver Age I guess

It doesn't cheer you up even though it's a tad goofy, it cheers you up because it is a completely goofy. Brave and the Bold is a show about super heroes doing super things, and everything else can be damned. It's a show made for the sole purpose of being fun, and that was fantastic. And it featured probably the last truly new thing in the DC universe worth a damn.

I dare the movies to come up with something as brilliant, entertaining, and new as the Music Meister. Hell, I dare the comics to do it too.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

As I said, its a more realistic view of superhero fighting.

Y'know what? If I wanted realistic I wouldn't be watching a goddamn Superman movie. I don't watch Superhero shows and movies for a 'real world' look at superheroes. Most often because people use "But realistic!" for the reason why everything sucks in this setting.

Pretty much this. "DC's films are more realistic and therefore better" argument people have is awful. It's a superhero movie. That entails no realism already. I guess I can say the characters of the Marvel films are more realistic because they for the most part act like actual fucking people. Not an emotionless robot.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Spoiler: There is one way they could have made the movie better.

OT: DC can't do live action movies. I don't know why, but they're terrible at it. Really they should just keep to animation because they do great there.

 

[Something Amyss]

So, here's a question for you guys? How profitable has this movie been for WB?

Now, according to most sources I've seen, BvS had a total budget of around $400 million ($250 for making the Movie, $150 for marketing). And according to Box Office Mojo, it's made $868m, rounding up. Since the studio only sees half the box office gross (meaning a movie has to make twice its budget to break even), it'd put the total profit WB has seen from this at $34m.

Is $34 million really worth it to WB to keep making these movies? The Avengers had a similar budget, far as I've heard, but it also pulled in $1.5 billion dollars at the box office, which would put it's profits in the range of $350 million.

Is the DCEU really worth it to WB at this point, given the risks of them suffering a legit bomb?

It's generally considered closer to three times the budget to be a success. That means it'd need Avengers money just to break even.

But that's not necessarily why they would do this movie, or why they would keep doing them after (or not). The studio behind the Last Airbender movie put a fuckton into promotion of the movie, well over the normal promotion, because they were so sure it was going to be a franchise. They may have even gone all-out with budget on setpieces with the idea that they were investing for the long run.

BVSDOJOMGWTFLOLBBL is a movie that could technically be a failure and still be worth pursuing. The problem I see with that is not so much that it might be a failure, but how it might have failed. This is a movie that was hated by critics. It's a movie that was hated by a lot of DC fans, even some of the fanboys. It's a movie that did well the first week, and had a record dropoff the second.

At that point, it might be worth scrapping even if it was profitable, because your next outing might not get those week one sales.

 

[marioandsonic]

Hey, it could be worse, OP. At least you're not a Nintendo fan right now.

In all seriousness, I don't really care if a film is made by Marvel, DC, Fox, or whoever. I just want a good movie.