Its hard being a DC fan. (Rant)

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The thing I hate about most regarding Batman v Superman is that how much of a self fufilling prophecy this ended up becoming.

What could have been simply a Man of Steel 2 became this. It started with just bringing in Batman for damage control after the "failure" of Man of Steel. Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman. If you end up having Superman doing exactly what you expect Superman to do, everyone will complain that he is too OP and too one dimensional to be an interesting character.

Then they showed Wonder Woman and called the movie Dawn of Justice and that title got mocked aswell.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

Then one trailer revealed Doomsday which honestly his design does not look as terrible as the earlier concept designs they were going with:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/dea14715627a4c2afc37766c32996806/tumblr_o52bswMSj91rov369o6_1280.jpg

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

And now Civil War came out and of course people are saying this is how BvS should have been.

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

No just no keep the tone the way it is other wise if it ends up being exactly like the MCU it will be increadibly redundant I mean there is already a Superhero bubble so why should DC end up looking more like the MCU in the exact tone and look?

I just want my Zack Snyder DC movies because he has talent he knows how to make Comic Boook movies he proclaims he grew up reading comic books and I believe him and he makes action that is 10x better then any movie I have seen in theaters. And he is NOT MICHAEL BAY!!

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

 

[Hawki]

As hard as it is to be a DC fan, apparently punctuation is even harder (it's "it's," not "its.")

Snark aside...look, I barely care about superhero movies anymore, but this line:

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Yes, because no-one should say anything bad about anything ever. I liked Man of Steel, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism.

But look, fine. There's plenty of stuff I like where me liking that work is in the minority. But to me, and many others, Batman v Superman was a plain bad, confused, shuffling mess of a film, and other people have done a good job of explaining why. There's been films released this year far more deserving of discussion than superhero pulp. I saw 'Good People' in a theatre tonight, and I'll be seeing 'Rams' in cinemas tomorrow, and if it lives up to the hype, it'll be worth my time. Fat chance of finding anyone interested in discussing either of those works though outside the people I see it with.

I wouldn't mind so much if BvS was entertaining nonsense, but it couldn't even muster that. It may not be on the level of "Bayformers," but that's an incredibly low bar to surpass.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

As hard as it is to be a DC fan, apparently punctuation is even harder (it's "it's," not "its.")

Snark aside...look, I barely care about superhero movies anymore, but this line:

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Yes, because no-one should say anything bad about anything ever. I liked Man of Steel, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism.

But look, fine. There's plenty of stuff I like where me liking that work is in the minority. But to me, and many others, Batman v Superman was a plain bad, confused, shuffling mess of a film, and other people have done a good job of explaining why. There's been films released this year far more deserving of discussion than superhero pulp. I saw 'Good People' in a theatre tonight, and I'll be seeing 'Rams' in cinemas tomorrow, and if it lives up to the hype, it'll be worth my time. Fat chance of finding anyone interested in discussing either of those works though outside the people I see it with.

I wouldn't mind so much if BvS was entertaining nonsense, but it couldn't even muster that. It may not be on the level of "Bayformers," but that's an incredibly low bar to surpass.

1. One movie I am most excited for Warcraft which finally a movie I can take a break from Superhero pulp (please let the movie going public like it so I can have my Wacraft 3 movie). And I am still waiting for Martin Scorsese's 2 future projects: A movie called the Irishmen that is casting Robert De Niro, Joe Pesci, and Al Pacino and another movie project is a Mike Tyson biopic staring Jaime Foxx as the main man.

2. A mess that mabye rectifyed with that extended R rated cut that is coming in July 15.

 

[circularlogic88]

A mess that mabye rectifyed with that extended R rated cut that is coming in July 15.

You don't put out a tire fire by dousing it with more gasoline.

OT: the last 2 Warner/DC movies clearly didn't resonate with the general audience. Turns out most people didn't really care about a superhero moping around trying to sort through his Messiah complex for 2 movies.

Spoiler: This is what people think of when they think of Superman.

Spoiler: This is what he is like in the comics since new52.

Man of Steel was a reaction by the studio in response to Superman Returns being seen as "boring" with the main complaint (and there is a lot to complain about) being that he never throws a punch. So what does Warner/DC decide to do? Double down on the angst and space Jesus undertones and have him level a chunk of Metropolis and Smallville all while trying to convey how hard it is to be a man with near limitless power, which could have been interesting were it not trying to be an unofficial Nolan-verse spin-off.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

A mess that mabye rectifyed with that extended R rated cut that is coming in July 15.

You don't put out a tire fire by dousing it with more gasoline.

OT: the last 2 Warner/DC movies clearly didn't resonate with the general audience. Turns out most people didn't really care about a superhero moping around trying to sort through his Messiah complex for 2 movies.

Spoiler: This is what people think of when they think of Superman.

Spoiler: This is what he is like in the comics since new52.

Man of Steel was a reaction by the studio in response to Superman Returns being seen as "boring" with the main complaint (and there is a lot to complain about) being that he never throws a punch. So what does Warner/DC decide to do? Double down on the angst and space Jesus undertones and have him level a chunk of Metropolis and Smallville all while trying to convey how hard it is to be a man with near limitless power, which could have been interesting were it not trying to be an unofficial Nolan-verse spin-off.

I hate Silver Age Superman. I cannot take him seriously at all.

He's not a Superhero in my eyes, he's a clown. The man sneezes and the solar system is blown up. The man rotates the world to reverse time

And the things they did with Man of Steel in response to the criticisms of Superman Returns made Man of Steel a much better movie because Superman Returns was just BORING. I was bored watching that movie in theaters. The only exciting thing was him saving the falling airplane, but I have seen Superman saving airplanes many times before

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

 

[Zhukov]

Yes, I imagine it would be hard being a fan of a bloated, nigh incoherent mess of a movie with maybe 30 cumulative seconds of decent action in it.

If DC want to establish their own distinct cinematic look and tone that marks them as something more than a me-too exercise frantically clutching at the coat tails of Marvel's superior offerings then they might want to start by just producing some solidly constructed films.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

It is hard to be a DC fan. I should know.

As of now, practically all of DC's offerings are crap. Their comics? Trash. Their animations? Dogshit. Their TV shows? A banana with a lot of brown spots. Their movies? Disappointing to say the least.

For the first time ever, I am more excited for Marvel's weekly comic drop than DC's.

If DC could stop changing the demographic they want to pander to, that would be great.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

It is hard to be a DC fan. I should know.

As of now, practically all of DC's offerings are crap. Their comics? Trash. Their animations? Dogshit. Their TV shows? A banana with a lot of brown spots. Their movies? Disappointing to say the least.

If DC could stop changing the demographic they want to pander to, that would be great.

DC's Animation is miles better then all movies of both marvel and dc combined.

And DC had the better comic books during the 1980s. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Knight Returns, Alan Moore's works.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

It is hard to be a DC fan. I should know.

As of now, practically all of DC's offerings are crap. Their comics? Trash. Their animations? Dogshit. Their TV shows? A banana with a lot of brown spots. Their movies? Disappointing to say the least.

If DC could stop changing the demographic they want to pander to, that would be great.

DC's Animation is miles better then all movies of both marvel and dc combined.

And DC had the better comic books during the 1980s. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Knight Returns, Alan Moore's works.

"As of now" are the key words here.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Marvel's superior offerings.

Marvel's offerings is a mixed bag in my own very honest opinion.

Iron Man 1: Good at the first half, went downhill.

Hulk: Dissipointing at the end.

Iron Man 2: Shit

Thor: Average to the point of irrelevency.

Captain America: Good.

Avengers: Execelent.

Iron Man 3: Shit.

Thor Dark World: Again average and irrelevent.

GOTG: Everyone likes it because of the Raccoon and the use of 80s pop music. This is one movie I adamantly despise. And I will hate it even more if Thanos ends up being beaten by Star Lord with a One Liner

Winter Solider: Good.

Age of Ultron: Dissipointing.

Ant Man: Average, and dare I say it a filler movie.

Civil War: Good.


And come on man its only been 2 DC movies and one of which is not that bad of a movie (Man of Steel)

Man of Steel getting so much flak is the reason I am like this because its the first time I thought a movie was ok but everyone else is treating it as bad as Birdemic or to use a comic book example as bad as Superman At Earth's End.

And remember that the other DC movies like Suicide Squad will be helmed by different people have no excuse to blame Zack Snyder if it ends up sucking.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

It is hard to be a DC fan. I should know.

As of now, practically all of DC's offerings are crap. Their comics? Trash. Their animations? Dogshit. Their TV shows? A banana with a lot of brown spots. Their movies? Disappointing to say the least.

If DC could stop changing the demographic they want to pander to, that would be great.

DC's Animation is miles better then all movies of both marvel and dc combined.

And DC had the better comic books during the 1980s. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Knight Returns, Alan Moore's works.

"As of now" are the key words here.

Regarding Comic Books: Is the comic books after Final Crisis and Prior to New 52 any better than New 52 itself? And I at least read the Justice League New 52 and thought it was OK. I also heard good things about the Superman/Wonderman team up comic book.

Regarding Animation: Only a few clunkers in the DC Univeser Animated Original Movie (Justice League New Frontier, Batman Gotham Knight) But most of them are consistantly OK. And some of them a great like Superman vs The Elite, Wonder Woman, Crisis on Two Earths, and Dark Knight Returns.

 

[Zhukov]

Marvel's superior offerings.

Marvel's offerings is a mixed bag in my own very honest opinion.

Oh, I'm not a huge fan of Marvel's movies either.

Most of them I found to be merely alright. Entertaining for their duration then swiftly forgotten. Several I straight up disliked.

Thing is, I'm not describing them as superior based on my own opinion. I'm only one person and of no particular note, utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

No, I'm describing them as superior because they were better received and more profitable by a massive margin than anything that DC has managed squeeze out lately. Whether you like that fact or not. Not to mention the whole successfully-bringing-shared-comic-universe-to-the-big-screen thing, a feat which sent DC into a desperate scramble of imitation.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

It is hard to be a DC fan. I should know.

As of now, practically all of DC's offerings are crap. Their comics? Trash. Their animations? Dogshit. Their TV shows? A banana with a lot of brown spots. Their movies? Disappointing to say the least.

If DC could stop changing the demographic they want to pander to, that would be great.

DC's Animation is miles better then all movies of both marvel and dc combined.

And DC had the better comic books during the 1980s. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Knight Returns, Alan Moore's works.

"As of now" are the key words here.

Regarding Comic Books: Is the comic books after Final Crisis and Prior to New 52 any better than New 52 itself? And I at least read the Justice League New 52 and thought it was OK. I also heard good things about the Superman/Wonderman team up comic book.

Regarding Animation: Only a few clunkers in the DC Univeser Animated Original Movie (Justice League New Frontier, Batman Gotham Knight) But most of them are consistantly OK. And some of them a great like Superman vs The Elite, Wonder Woman, Crisis on Two Earths, and Dark Knight Returns.

About the comics, it depends. Series like Wonder Woman, Batman, and The Flash in the New 52 were as good and even better than pre-Flashpoint stuff. Green Lantern and Justice League were okay as well. Everything else, bar a few small unknown series, are poor reimaginings of the old universe. So I would take pre-52 universe over the N52 any day.

I didn't even hate the New 52, The Flash and Wonder Woman N52 runs made me fans of the characters. So it hurt so much that now, those two series are the worst the N52 universe has to offer. Well, after the Teen Titans.

And I love the pre-52 DCAU. That shit is the definition of childhood for me. And what does DC do? Replace it with shit like Teen Titans Go and Son of Batman.

 

[circularlogic88]

Marvel's superior offerings.

Snip

And come on man its only been 2 DC movies and one of which is not that bad of a movie (Man of Steel)

Man of Steel getting so much flak is the reason I am like this because its the first time I thought a movie was ok but everyone else is treating it as bad as Birdemic or to use a comic book example as bad as Superman At Earth's End.

And remember that the other DC movies like Suicide Squad will be helmed by different people have no excuse to blame Zack Snyder if it ends up sucking.

Its okay for you to like something that other people don't like. Man of Steel was very middling with audience and critical reception because it was such a drastic departure to what was expected of a Superman movie. Snyder's cinematography for me personally in Man of Steel was headache inducing: nearly every scene had the camera drunkenly swaying and shaking in some fashion, even for more pensive scenes like the "Jon Kent maybe" scene. I also found that David Goyer's writing was subpar and didn't give a good sense of who Clark was as a character and relied too heavily on raw emotion to fill in narrative shortcomings. A good majority of people loved the raw emotions of a father (two no less) sacraficing himself to spare his son from something bigger than he thinks his son can handle (a planet exploding/being outed as having super powers). It fell flat for me because we never really spent much time learning about Clark and what he believes apart from he likes to help people...usually.

It's not a matter of casting blame, it's a matter of too much studio interference and giving a somewhat auteur director too much free reign, which I know sounds like two different problems, but they somehow coalesced and permeated throughout both Man of Steel and BvS.

 

[King Billi]

What I like most about Batman v Superman was how it actively went out of its way to upset its detractors.

Living in the age of fanservice as we are and seeing so many franchises profiting heavily from pandering to their fans (Marvel, Star Wars) it is actually quite refreshing seeing such a big name blockbuster go in the complete opposite direction. Saying to all the critics of Man of Steel who hoped all would be "fixed" with BvS: "Nope. This is the direction we're taking, you can either get on board or get out now."

If DC or Warner Bros truly cared about competing with Marvel there are much easier directions they could have taken, they seem happy to let their chosen creators have full reign with their characters and properties while Marvel hold theirs on a very tight leash and don't allow anything deviate from the established template or a least only slightly.

Does DC have their own "architect" orchestrating everything behind the scenes like Marvel has? I don't think so, which is why for now it'll still be interesting to see what the future
films in the DC cinematic universe will be, the ones not directed by Zach Snyder.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Does DC have their own "architect" orchestrating everything behind the scenes like Marvel has? I don't think so, which is why for now it'll still be interesting to see what the future films in the DC cinematic universe will be, the ones not directed by Zach Snyder.

Presumably Goyer is the 'master architect' for what it's worth. Considering DC is doing the opposite of Marvel, having one single main series with the occasional spin off, it's a rather grandiose term.

And I love the pre-52 DCAU. That shit is the definition of childhood for me. And what does DC do? Replace it with shit like Teen Titans Go and Son of Batman.

The DCAU was, and is, I imagine, the defining DC universe for an entire generation of viewers. It reached way more people then the comics ever have or will, and was just a blazing master piece. And honestly, I think it's the reason the new offerings from DC are so sad - Because the DCAU did everything their trying to do now, but it did it better then anything we're getting. Brutal Justice League? DCAU did it better. Government/The Public vs. JL? DCAU did it better. Building a universe where Superman/Martian Manhunter/Wonder Woman don't make 99% of the rest of the JL useless and redundant? The movies aren't even pretending to do that. Vigilantes vs. 'Heroic' heroes? They did that better to.

It's just frustrating to see DC fail so miserably at something they already aced. And while my personal preference would be a live action version of the Justice League (Unlimited would actually be my preference. Gimme some of them C listers, DC. I want to see the Vigilante and The Question slumming it up in some alley, not Superman leveling half a city), I understand that's not likely. But DC could at least look at what worked so well and borrow from it a little, instead of just coming at this from a completely different direction and failing.

As I've said before, DC seems hellbent on looking through 80 years of comics, movies, and animations, and picking the absolute worst versions of its universe and heroes it can find to build the movie-verse. And it hurts, bad. My only condolence is that whoever is running The Flash show has somehow gotten away with DC's equivalent of murder and injected some god damn joy into the universe.

Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman.

Superman does have an image problem.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

While I'm personally not an advocate for Lex Cranston, it's a bit more than that. For one, he's an excellent actor, who's quite capable of being both charismatic and menacing. And for two, he was already kind of Lex Luthor in Breaking Bad, in a way - A terrifying borderline sociopath who does what he does because he's the best at it, and he want's to be the best. There's of course a lot of differences, but I do see some pretty easy cross over.

And this is opposed to Jesse Eisenberg, a man who didn't play Lex Luthor, at all. Most of the other characters in Dawn of Justice are at least somewhat similar to what we expect from them, at least close enough to be considered 'Elseworld' - Eisenberg's Luthor, however, isn't even close.

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Of course it was that big. While the fight itself is a bit played out in the comics, most people don't actually read comics. This was going to be the first time the subject was going to be handled by a DC product with significant market penetration since The Batman series (Not to be confused with Batman: The Animated Series), and the first time ever on the big screen.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Considering that Dawn of Justice is just Man of Steel (A movie I did actually like), just doubling down on the angst, the character count, and the bullshit, I doubt it. If anything, they ignored the criticisms leveled at Man of Steel, and basically told the audience 'You know the things you didn't like about that movie? Well, fuck you with the wide end of a rake, here's more of the same, only worse.'

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

I really wouldn't worry about that. WB seems hellbent on driving down the path they've laid, and damn whatever anyone says. While they do seem to be taking a lighter focus in regards to the Suicide Squad movie, I think they're chasing Deadpool (Which is Fox) more than Marvel on that one. And I really doubt WB is foolish enough to think they can apply the Deadpool formula to the main line JL story.

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

You can hardly blame the movie community for how terribly Snyder, Goyer, and WB are.

 

[IOwnTheSpire]

While I am an ardent defender of Man of Steel and I feel most of the criticisms against it are unfair/false, I share a lot of the criticisms most people have against BvS, even though I didn't think it was as bad as people said it was (6 out of 10, I'd say).

I think a lot of it comes down to WB demanding they throw in all this JL set-up even when it wouldn't make sense for the narrative. If the cameos were at the end after Bruce says 'We need to come together', that would've been fine.

There's also the Knightmare and Flashpoint stuff; it was very jarring and out of place. I understood the Darkseid references, but most people watching aren't going to understand these things, especially when these story arcs they're setting up aren't going to pay off for quite some time.

Just my two cents.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah sorry, but this is all due to Warner Brothers feeling like the superhero cinematic universe bubble will burst eventually, and in trying to get some of that Marvel dough while they can they jumped the gun.

Also, Zack Snyder is a dummy who just likes to see things go bash boom crash. The guy should be a DP at best.

Anyway, it's enjoyable watching this studio dig itself in deeper and deeper.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

~snip~

Nah.

This whole mess, as much of a mess as it actually is, comes from the top. Warner Brothers; they had outright made the statement, after the crash & burn of Green Lantern, that their comic book properties would be more like The Dark Knight Trilogy "including Superman". What they did was clinge to something that worked under a specific creative team and blew their load far too soon, in an effort to get into that big money, because comic book movies went out of fashion. It was alright just shitting out projects while everyone was just doing their solo thing, but after Avengers, it felt like comic book movies reached their peak from a marketing perspective. I mean, after a super-team, what else is there outside of adapting Crisis on Infinite Earths?

Dark and gritty was one thing, but they also opted for 'realism', which is why Man of Steel is not a super-hero movie. When that didn't work as well as they wanted to, they brought in Batman, as you said. The tragedy here is that Man of Steel made shitloads of money, but no; they wanted more, they wanted to dominate, as if their comic book properties aren't doing well across the board.

And the genuinely funny thing is that, if they had taken but ONE second to look back at the Dark Knight Trilogy, they'd move past it pretty fast. We all kinda have them on a pedastal, but essentially we're talking about one really good Batman movie, one really good movie that just happens to have Batman in it and one okay movie that didn't even need Batman in at all (seriously, can anyone tell me why TDKR even needed Batman to be in that story at all?)

For what's worth, I'm a big DC fan and particularly Superman fan and I enjoyed Batman v Superman. I would've preferred a different approach, but I enjoyed it. So, yeah, WB scares the crap out of me with their abject stupidity, but at least I'm having enough fun with the material, be it the movies, the books, the games or TV/Animated.