It's just me, or people on the internet doesn't seems to understand analogies?

Chaud

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Tell me that I'm not the only one seeing it. (TL:DR in the bottom.)

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This happens at least once every controversial topic, but generally I see it happening again and again and again, in a cyclical conversation that never leaves the same point. Analogies aren't mysterious figures of speech, in fact, the idea is pretty simple. It's just an inference that compares the relationship between two things: 'A' is to 'B' as well as 'C' is to 'D', where the relationship between 'A' and 'B' must be the same as in 'C' and 'D'. That's it.

But still, I see two glaring errors arise in virtually every topic.

The first is when someone who doesn't understand the nature of an analogy, comparing two situations (or things) that aren't really comparable - or at least, they aren't comparable in the specific aspect in which the analogy was made. Things like comparing DRM in video games with STEAM's DRM, or something along these lines. Here I don't need to dwell too much because the error is kinda obvious: the specific properties of the things being compared must be the same, at least in regards of the question of the comparison.

The second is almost the opposite to the first, people who cannot recognize a valid analogy. This almost always happens when in an argument, someone uses a 'reductio ad absurdum' (proof by contradiction), which is when someone takes one or more hypotheses and, from these, derive the most absurd/incoherent possible consequence, then, concluding that original assumption must be wrong.

That, logically speaking, it is a perfect way to show that certain argument is wrong. This argument makes use of the law of non-contradiction (a proposition cannot be both true and false) and the law of excluded middle (a proposition is true or false, and there isn't a third possibility). It is a test used even in mathematics. If the initial comparison was really valid, is a prudent and logical way to argue.

But many people don't understand that the point of the comparison is to show the most absurd situation possible using the same logic. ("You just compared DLC with murder? Nonsense!") Then, I see many people rejecting perfectly viable analogies by sheer refusal to understand how an analogy should work.

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TL:DR - people don't seem to know how to use analogies, why the hell does this happen?
PS: ESL here, so please try to forgive any typos and writing errors.



EDIT 1:I changed the word "STEAM" for "STEAM's DRM" to clarify and see if we can avoid redundant questions in the topic.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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You have to be a special kind of dumb not to understand analogies.

I mean, I get analogies in the summer, they make my nose and eyes all itchy.

Thankfully I don't have any animal analogies, I dunno what I'd do if I were analogic to dogs.
 

Thaluikhain

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I always thought that was simply an easy way to try and discredit someone's argument. Instead of sitting down and finding problems with the substance, you make a straw man out of the analogies they used.
 

Able Seacat

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Daystar Clarion said:
You have to be a special kind of dumb not to understand analogies.

I mean, I get analogies in the summer, they make my nose and eyes all itchy.

Thankfully I don't have any animal analogies, I dunno what I'd do if I were analogic to dogs.
Ha! That made me laugh like someone who had just read something funny.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

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I think it's just something people here on the Escapist do. One recent thread that comes to mind is "You Can't Criticize God". It just went around in circles for over 10 pages (EDIT: Nearly 20 pages) focusing on semantics and deliberately misrepresenting analogies and comparisons.

There was also another one in the "World as lead by Dawkins, Sagan, Tyson et al" thread where someone tried to focus really hard on semantics and forcing the opponents to define everything.

TL:DR; Semantic arguments are arguments I avoid like the plague because they never lead anywhere. I always find they're an attempt to distract the opponent or drag it out long enough to make them disengage and then declare yourself the winner.
 

Cecilo

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It depends on which part of the internet you are on. Here you will see Analogies, 4Chan you will see the "Implying" Meme.
 

Vigormortis

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These sorts of situations tend to stem from someone not having a firm grasp of what the topic is actually about, what the topic matter entails, or what is really being discussed. As a result, when they try to form an analogy in their mind they tend to draw from incorrect or fallacious examples.

And, with the current popular form of argumentation being to overuse analogies to muddle the conversation, you're going to be seeing a lot more examples of this.


Daystar Clarion said:
You have to be a special kind of dumb not to understand analogies.

I mean, I get analogies in the summer, they make my nose and eyes all itchy.

Thankfully I don't have any animal analogies, I dunno what I'd do if I were analogous to dogs.
Fixed that for ya. Not to mention making it much more apropos, given your avatar.

;D
 

Sarge034

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Chaud said:
[...]Things like comparing DRM in video games with STEAM, or something along these lines. Here I don't need to dwell too much because the error is kinda obvious: the specific properties of the things being compared must be the same, at least in regards of the question of the comparison.

The second is almost the opposite to the first, people who cannot recognize a valid analogy.[...]

(edit- Ninjas, damn...) Although, I guess you're right. Steam is not analogous to DRM. Steam IS DRM.

Anyway, I think it boils down to people only wanting to see what will help their argument. An analogy sometimes requires you to understand that aspects of what you are comparing can be similar even if the things being compared are not. IE- The ball was like an orange. This implies the ball was a similar size, shape, and color of an orange, but obviously it wouldn't taste like one.
 

Flutterguy

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thaluikhain said:
I always thought that was simply an easy way to try and discredit someone's argument. Instead of sitting down and finding problems with the substance, you make a straw man out of the analogies they used.
This.

Or it was just was written poorly/misread.
 

Chaud

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Sarge034 said:
(edit- Ninjas, damn...) Although, I guess you're right. Steam is not analogous to DRM. Steam IS DRM.
Of course it is, did I say it wasn't? I talked about the comparisons of DRM in videogames (implying that I meant, for example, the old model of XBONE) with STEAM model, but both are forms of DRM. Although fundamentally different in some aspects (no physical media, options from competing services on the same platform, offline mode, price models, etc), and therefore, not exactly comparable in certain ways. I thought that was obvious, but apparently...

thaluikhain said:
I always thought that was simply an easy way to try and discredit someone's argument. Instead of sitting down and finding problems with the substance, you make a straw man out of the analogies they used.
Yeah, that makes sense too. Maybe I just didn't want to believe that people have such small minds to the point in which they consciously distort the argument of someone just to defend a position that they're unable to sustain from the beginning anyways.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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Chaud said:
Sarge034 said:
(edit- Ninjas, damn...) Although, I guess you're right. Steam is not analogous to DRM. Steam IS DRM.
Of course it is, did I say it wasn't? I talked about the comparisons of DRM in videogames (implying that I meant, for example, the old model of XBONE) with STEAM model, but both are forms of DRM. Although fundamentally different in some aspects (not physical media, options from competing services on the same platform, offline mode, price models, etc), and therefore, not exactly comparable in certain ways. I thought that was obvious, but apparently...
Oh good. I though I was falling for tro- uh trickery also.

You might want to take language into consideration. When I see people missing blatantly obvious points, its sometimes coupled with Engrishy posts
 
Sep 13, 2009
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Oh god yes. I find it's particularly so if you mention something bad in your analogy. Not even saying that it's as bad as that, just if you end up mentioning something bad. Like Hitler, Nazis, or rape. You draw a comparison and even mention Hitler offhandedly then people immediately stop reading and swarm you saying "You're saying that this is as bad as the holocaust?!" or such. I remember seeing something like 10 people completely ignore this one guy's comment and keep beating on about how he's an awful person for even daring to make this comparison (might not have been Hitler, it could have been one of the other rage buttons), when it was perfectly clear that he wasn't comparing the scope, he was saying it had a similar rationale.

There's a purpose to analogies. You're trying to find something that the person you're arguing with can agree with, and then say how what you're saying is consistent with that belief, or what they're saying is inconsistent with it. Since there's no objective truth in a lot of arguments it's a pretty valuable method for trying to convince someone of your side. And why do people often go to extreme examples? Because it's more likely that there's going to be some common ground in principle in those.

thaluikhain said:
I always thought that was simply an easy way to try and discredit someone's argument. Instead of sitting down and finding problems with the substance, you make a straw man out of the analogies they used.
I strongly suspect that this is true. A lot of people seem over eager to find something easier to attack than their argument. Particularly with the "how dare you!" reaction. It also makes it really hard for someone to explain how they've been misunderstood when they're receiving personal attacks under the guise of an argument
 

Chaud

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PoolCleaningRobot said:
Oh good. I though I was falling for tro- uh trickery also.

You might want to take language into consideration. When I see people missing blatantly obvious points, its sometimes coupled with Engrishy posts
Fair enough. I just kinda learned English by reading and writing on forums and online games. Then, without a formal education, it's quite possible that I end up not expressing myself very well sometimes. My bad.
 

Spambot 3000

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Why does it happen? I reckon because some people are so shit at logical arguments that they need to try and appeal to emotions instead. 'You can't compare aspects of _____ to ______ because MUH FEELS' - that's what it is. They're too stupid to realise that comparing similarities and differences between things isn't equating them. Just because you had breakfast this morning and a serial killer somewhere on the planet had breakfast this morning doesn't mean you're a serial killer.
Well, either that or they're fully aware of how these arguments work but they'd rather just make a shitty strawman anyway because they're cunts. One of those two. Someone should make a PSA of this I swear.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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Chaud said:
PoolCleaningRobot said:
Oh good. I though I was falling for tro- uh trickery also.

You might want to take language into consideration. When I see people missing blatantly obvious points, its sometimes coupled with Engrishy posts
Fair enough. I just kinda learned English by reading and writing on forums and online games. Then, without a formal education, it's quite possible that I end up not expressing myself very well sometimes. My bad.
I was actually talking about people misunderstanding analogies, not your post. I'm actually surprised you learned English as second language considering your posts are pretty well worded
 

Strain42

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"I know what it is. It's like a thought wearing another thought's hat!" ~ Britta Perry.

Sorry, that's all I could think of when I saw this title. I'll be on my way now.
 

Vegosiux

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Analogies are tools. They often serve to get a point across rather well. That said, I have witnessed a significant number of really shoddy ones, too.
 

Baneat

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Strain42 said:
"I know what it is. It's like a thought wearing another thought's hat!" ~ Britta Perry.

Sorry, that's all I could think of when I saw this title. I'll be on my way now.
You see, your ego's like an apple, and it's expanding!
 

Nielas

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Spambot 3000 said:
Why does it happen? I reckon because some people are so shit at logical arguments that they need to try and appeal to emotions instead. 'You can't compare aspects of _____ to ______ because MUH FEELS' - that's what it is. They're too stupid to realise that comparing similarities and differences between things isn't equating them. Just because you had breakfast this morning and a serial killer somewhere on the planet had breakfast this morning doesn't mean you're a serial killer.
Well, either that or they're fully aware of how these arguments work but they'd rather just make a shitty strawman anyway because they're cunts. One of those two. Someone should make a PSA of this I swear.
The same applies to the people making the analogies. Too often they note a similarity between two things and equate them without considering the many differences between them. Then there are the people who are eager to point out similarities in the negative features of two items but refuse to acknowledge the similarities in the positive features or even that those positive features exist.