It's ok to be angry about capitalism

[Satinavian]

No but greed is.

Edit: If you know your history every successful hegemony based empire that’s has been number one has been ruthlessly greedy. The British were greedy, The Germans were greedy, the Spanish were greedy, the French empire was greedy, the Roman’s were greedy, Han China was greedy. And there’s been lots of wealth disparity in all of them, you may as well try to change human DNA. After we hunted animals to when we farmed we have all been greedy.

That is not true.

Sure, greed is normal for humans. However human society and interaction rely on status and self-worth is coupled to that. And achieving status and recognition is a way bigger motivation and driver for humans than achieving ownership of things.

It is the failing of capitalism to link them. That "being rich" becomes "being succesful in life" and "being a role model". That people need to show off their wealth to feel worthy. That billionaires suddenly get listened to when people seek inspiration or advise, that they are assumed to be worthy leaders.

That is not true for most societies in history, even for most of the empires. Sure, powerful people nearly always gathered wealth because they could. But nowhere else did wealth itself confer worth in the way capitalism does it. In no other case was wealth was a goal in its own right instead of a useful tool.

In every other society, money getting concentrated by the rich is understood as a sign of corruption and moral and societal failing. In Capitalism it is lauded as business people and entrepeneurs doing what they are supposed to do and being put on a pedestral as overachievers.

 

[Gergar12]

That is not true.

Sure, greed is normal for humans. However human society and interaction rely on status and self-worth is coupled to that. And achieving status and recognition is a way bigger motivation and driver for humans than achieving ownership of things.

It is the failing of capitalism to link them. That "being rich" becomes "being succesful in life" and "being a role model". That people need to show off their wealth to feel worthy. That billionaires suddenly get listened to when people seek inspiration or advise, that they are assumed to be worthy leaders.

That is not true for most societies in history, even for most of the empires. Sure, powerful people nearly always gathered wealth because they could. But nowhere else did wealth itself confer worth in the way capitalism does it. In no other case was wealth was a goal in its own right instead of a useful tool.

In every other society, money getting concentrated by the rich is understood as a sign of corruption and moral and societal failing. In Capitalism it is lauded as business people and entrepeneurs doing what they are supposed to do and being put on a pedestral as overachievers.

They are overachievers they overachieve in making money. Now I personally if I became a billionaire would lay low but many don’t which I find is insane but hey they made it. But you have to think about the average multi-millionaire or even millionaire who lives a better life than those without that. They live longer, have better jobs or no jobs/businesses, have purpose building up their businesses or passionate and find their purpose in life.

I know people who are landlords not corpo ones and people who buy more than one house they want to be secure. They feel money is security. It’s not there fault America and the world is wicked towards the poor and people who are moral. The worst thing isn’t becoming a worker it’s becoming rejected by society aka homelessness, I fear it arguably more than I fear death.

Elon Musk who everyone here hates and I don’t like either when it comes to Trump is the reason we got replaceable rockets, and then spacex than starlink. Bezo’s Amazon is super convenient even if personally he’s not a good person according to many people. Google is an amazing search engine and is the reason many people can work a job they love as a content creator. If progressives like us who want income inequality to decrease than why do republicans and neoliberals keep winning. Why did 2/3 of American voters not vote/voted even for conservatives. Why do democratic primary voters keep voting for non-socialist democrats to the point where Bernie Sanders could only win in caucus not primaries most of the time. It’s because while people know they likely won’t be a multi-millionaire or up they could retire a millionaire in the US vs France for example.

Success may not be greed but greed drives success for many, money is power in America and everywhere else mostly.

 

[Satinavian]

Success may not be greed but greed drives success for many, money is power in America.

Oh, i agree that this is true.

However i see that as a problem.

And no, i also don't agree on the "everywhere else" part. For example there are many countries where academic credentials give people far more adoration than wealth does. Because the society values knowledge. Where even if technically the country is democratic and capitalist as the US, if plays out very differently : Having a PhD makes you way more likely to be elected. Having a billion makes you less likely to be elected because pople assume you are corrupt and driven by self-interest. Sure, you still get all your scandals : fake titles, paper mills ... humans cheat to get ahead. But cheating to get credentials you don't deserve is less damaging then cheating to get money you don't deserve.

But the Amercian electorate is weird anyway. Not only distrusts it academics and people don't like to vote for someone seemingly better educated than themselves, they also have this weird obsession with political dynasties : Roosevelts, Clintons, Kennedies, Bushs and now people push for Michelle Obama and Trump jr. as next presidential candidates. It is like Americans really miss the aristocracy they lost with the revolution. No other democray does that unless it is a sham one like North Korea.

 

[BrawlMan]

Not an argument.

P.S - I don't give a fuck.

 

[Hades]

Oh, i agree that this is true.

However i see that as a problem.

And no, i also don't agree on the "everywhere else" part. For example there are many countries where academic credentials give people far more adoration than wealth does. Because the society values knowledge. Where even if technically the country is democratic and capitalist as the US, if plays out very differently : Having a PhD makes you way more likely to be elected. Having a billion makes you less likely to be elected because pople assume you are corrupt and driven by self-interest. Sure, you still get all your scandals : fake titles, paper mills ... humans cheat to get ahead. But cheating to get credentials you don't deserve is less damaging then cheating to get money you don't deserve.

But the Amercian electorate is weird anyway. Not only distrusts it academics and people don't like to vote for someone seemingly better educated than themselves, they also have this weird obsession with political dynasties : Roosevelts, Clintons, Kennedies, Bushs and now people push for Michelle Obama and Trump jr. as next presidential candidates. It is like Americans really miss the aristocracy they lost with the revolution. No other democray does that unless it is a sham one like North Korea.

Depends on the country. Here in the Netherlands we don't worship rich people like the US, but having academic credentials triggers a hugely negative reaction in the electorate. Both Sigrid Kaag and Timmermans were famously qualified people, but were opened up to an attack as a result ''You may know 10 language, but not the language of the people!'' Wilders scoffed.

Poland seems similar where a highly educated and multilingal major lost to some corrupt football hooligan in the presidential election, because the public wasn't going to reward academic success at this stage.

 

[tstorm823]

Greed isn't necessarily the right word.

They competed: they sought their best interest, in many cases at the expense of others. The truth out there is that the world is full of competition. At a national level, a country may need to compete just because other countries will, and the consequences of being outcompeted could be anywhere up to being conquered.

But greed isn't the same as competition or success. It can even be the enemy of success.

Yeah, greed is notoriously bad at succeeding, power is the right word to discuss. You end up with super wealthy in a system that allows wealth to have power, because power is pretty much anything that can beget more of itself. To not end up with wealth begetting more wealth, you need to strip any power that wealth could have, which also prevents people from using that wealth productively.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Elon Musk who everyone here hates and I don’t like either when it comes to Trump is the reason we got replaceable rockets, and then spacex than starlink.

Is he, though?

If progressives like us who want income inequality to decrease than why do republicans and neoliberals keep winning. Why did 2/3 of American voters not vote/voted even for conservatives. Why do democratic primary voters keep voting for non-socialist democrats to the point where Bernie Sanders could only win in caucus not primaries most of the time. It’s because while people know they likely won’t be a multi-millionaire or up they could retire a millionaire in the US vs France for example.

There's all sorts of reasons why the Dems don't provide actually left wing candidates, and not merely because the common person wants expects to be a millionaire. Also, one must ask why people who think that do think that.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Gergar12]

Oh, i agree that this is true.

However i see that as a problem.

And no, i also don't agree on the "everywhere else" part. For example there are many countries where academic credentials give people far more adoration than wealth does. Because the society values knowledge. Where even if technically the country is democratic and capitalist as the US, if plays out very differently : Having a PhD makes you way more likely to be elected. Having a billion makes you less likely to be elected because pople assume you are corrupt and driven by self-interest. Sure, you still get all your scandals : fake titles, paper mills ... humans cheat to get ahead. But cheating to get credentials you don't deserve is less damaging then cheating to get money you don't deserve.

But the Amercian electorate is weird anyway. Not only distrusts it academics and people don't like to vote for someone seemingly better educated than themselves, they also have this weird obsession with political dynasties : Roosevelts, Clintons, Kennedies, Bushs and now people push for Michelle Obama and Trump jr. as next presidential candidates. It is like Americans really miss the aristocracy they lost with the revolution. No other democray does that unless it is a sham one like North Korea.

No Roosevelts are in power, no Clintons are in power, there is no Bush in power right now in a major state position or federal seat in Congress, former president Barack Obama is only the head of the democratic Party because Biden is too old. And Trump Jr won't win. The population mainly wants those candidates due to experience and a higher probability of winning due to name recognition. As for the Kenndies yes, only them.

 

[thebobmaster]

No Roosevelts are in power, no Clintons are in power, there is no Bush in power right now in a major state position or federal seat in Congress, former president Barack Obama is only the head of the democratic Party because Biden is too old. And Trump Jr won't win. The population mainly wants those candidates due to experience and a higher probability of winning due to name recognition. As for the Kenndies yes, only them.

Yeah, Trump, Jr. stands no chance. Just like there was no way we'd re-elect Trump after he botched his first presidency, and then at least strongly encouraged a coup when he lost. NO WAY the populace would stand behind a dictator, right?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, Trump, Jr. stands no chance. Just like there was no way we'd re-elect Trump after he botched his first presidency, and then at least strongly encouraged a coup when he lost. NO WAY the populace would stand behind a dictator, right?

Trump is not a dictator...

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

There's all sorts of reasons why the Dems don't provide actually left wing candidates, and not merely because the common person wants expects to be a millionaire. Also, one must ask why people who think that do think that.

Capitalist systems have convinced us that if we just put our noses to the grindstone, sacrifice every other aspect of our lives, and step on whoever is in our way, then our wealthy benefactors will recognize our hard work and reward us. They won't, of course, but now we have entire populations of "temporarily-distressed millionaires" who are vehemently against anything that might make the rich a tiny bit less rich, because "I'll be up there myself someday soon".

 

[Thaluikhain]

Capitalist systems have convinced us that if we just put our noses to the grindstone, sacrifice every other aspect of our lives, and step on whoever is in our way, then our wealthy benefactors will recognize our hard work and reward us. They won't, of course, but now we have entire populations of "temporarily-distressed millionaires" who are vehemently against anything that might make the rich a tiny bit less rich, because "I'll be up there myself someday soon".

Sure, that's a factor, but hardly the only one, I mean.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Capitalist systems have convinced us that if we just put our noses to the grindstone, sacrifice every other aspect of our lives, and step on whoever is in our way, then our wealthy benefactors will recognize our hard work and reward us. They won't, of course, but now we have entire populations of "temporarily-distressed millionaires" who are vehemently against anything that might make the rich a tiny bit less rich, because "I'll be up there myself someday soon".

Says with absolutely no context for how any of the past systems worked for most people in history. I do like at most an hour of actual work a day, capitalism is just the worst!!!

 

[Silvanus]

I do like at most an hour of actual work a day, capitalism is just the worst!!!

This is probably just because you're not a very good employee.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

This is probably just because you're not a very good employee.

I just do things faster than the other techs. One of our techs is incompetent, she thinks updates fix every problem; user wants a printer to be installed, she says that printer doesn't have updates because it's too old and no longer supported. She can't even install a printer... She's also only done one ticket all week so far. She works the later shift and a professor was having issues with a Powerpoint going to a TV during class and she couldn't even do that, the ticket was still open this morning.

 

[Gergar12]

Yeah, Trump, Jr. stands no chance. Just like there was no way we'd re-elect Trump after he botched his first presidency, and then at least strongly encouraged a coup when he lost. NO WAY the populace would stand behind a dictator, right?

It's more likely Barron Trump would run over Trump Jr, and neither has a chance. Trump's tariff policy led to less economic growth, and he hasn't stopped outsourcing. He won't win.

Is he, though?



There's all sorts of reasons why the Dems don't provide actually left wing candidates, and not merely because the common person wants expects to be a millionaire. Also, one must ask why people who think that do think that.

Because compound interest/index funds are the way to go to do that.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's more likely Barron Trump would run over Trump Jr, and neither has a chance. Trump's tariff policy led to less economic growth, and he hasn't stopped outsourcing. He won't win.

Perhaps not in a free and fair election of informed voters, but...

 

[BrawlMan]

Rockstar is in trouble. Good, they brought it on themselves. People and parliament are fighting back. This is why the term greed is good can burn in hell.

Chris Bratt (@chrisbratt.bsky.social)

One of the people who makes People Make Games. [email protected]

bsky.app

Chris Bratt (@chrisbratt.bsky.social)

As the union has already stated, this "public forum" refers to a Discord server used by its members to organise. There was also a general channel here which non-union employees could be invited into if they'd shown an interest in joining. This channel had more than 300 members at its peak.

bsky.app

Chris Bratt (@chrisbratt.bsky.social)

So what was being discussed? From what I've seen so far: union recruitment, pay and working conditions. We've seen examples of employees comparing salaries and bonus payments, discussions which are arguably protected by the UK's Equality Act of 2010.

bsky.app

Nathan Grayson (@nathangrayson.bsky.social)

late last week, workers of different stripes gathered outside rockstar's nyc office for a protest in solidarity with fired devs in the uk/scotland. the message, as fired rockstar workers head into a hearing this week, is that they've got global support, and bosses can't hide [contains quote...

bsky.app

Eurogamer (@eurogamer.bsky.social)

GTA developer Rockstar's firing of union staff "deeply concerning", says UK prime minister Keir Starmer https://www.eurogamer.net/gta-developer-rockstars-firing-of-union-staff-deeply-concerning-says-uk-prime-minister-keir-starmer

bsky.app

 

[Hades]

Trump is not a dictator...

Not yet. But he's doing the prep work to get on Orban and Vlad's level, and already showed he's willing to do away with democracy if he doesn't win