"It's up for interpretation."

Recommended Videos

Citrus

New member
Apr 25, 2008
1,420
0
0
I can appreciate a good poem, good song lyrics, and a good story, but one thing that has bothered me for a while is the pretense that these things can only be good if they contain some sort of hidden meaning or depth. Society seems accept that anything with any semblance of symbolism or ambiguity is to be embraced and praised, especially if it is too ambiguous to understand.

It seems like the sure-fire way to write well-received work is to make it "open for interpretation". If it sounds like it might be deep, people will assume that it is and therefore assume that it is good. Very often, technical skill is considered of equal importance, or even secondary, to the wonders of obfuscation. If someone were to insult the lack of depth in, say, Halo's plot, simply point to "John 117 [http://biblebrowser.com/john/1-17.htm]" to send him packing. If someone thought Braid's storytelling was poor, they were clearly too close-minded to understand its impressive allegories and references to Jungian psychology and Judeo-Christian scriptures and modern feminism and the plight of homosexuals and the Garden of Eden and...

What makes me uncomfortable is that society seems to be fostering the idea that this is what all art should be. In school, we are taught to analyze poetry, and we are taught that everything has a deeper meaning, and that every choice of word serves a significant purpose. I sincerely believe that we give some poets and authors far more credit than they deserve.

The dust drove back the sea,
and in time we found its eyes
were not what we could be,
but what we should despise.

For all intents of worth,
had stained our skies impure;
to moil in our gardens
that we, of they, were sure.

Hey, that sounds kinda deep, right? Who cares if it's nothing but gibberish with a rhyme scheme? It's up for interpretation; it isn't supposed to make sense to anybody but the author. Does this make Ms. Holstein up there an amazing writer? Of course it does.

Now, don't get me wrong; I don't just hate poetry and ambiguity. Robert Frost is one of my favourite poets, and his poems can be pretty damn obscure. But then, he wrote his poems with the intent of them being solved, like riddles. He did not write them for no other purpose than for people to read whatever they want into them.

My main gripe here is that an engaging story with engaging characters is not enough. Everything has to mean something more, if not to be smart, then to sound smart. Symbolism is a great literary tool and can be used very effectively, but it does not have to be used all the time, and its use does not make something good. The up-for-interpretation brand of literature is fine in doses, but, in my opinion, it's becoming a catch-all term to qualify something as artistic, and it's appearing far too often. Obfuscation is a major determining factor in deciding whether or not something is good, and I really don't agree with that.

I'm sorry. I know that complaining about this sort of thing is nothing new, but I figured it'd be interesting to see what other people's opinions are.

EDIT: Further reading [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible], and where I got the great word "obfuscation".
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
<url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory>Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

But yes, I agree. It's incredibly off-putting. I usually don't bother looking for meaning, trusting them instead to leap out at me, if at all.
 

Kollega

New member
Jun 5, 2009
5,161
0
0
I think that art is a method of expressing oneself,one's concerns,views,and emotions. Or just messing around for the lolz. Therefore,"open to interpretation" kind of art is acceptable,as long as it's not everything you bump into.
 

SharPhoe

The Nice-talgia Kerrick
Feb 28, 2009
2,617
0
0
What do you mean, "It's not symbolic"? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlebqmxtrir9bav?from=Main.WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic]

Joking aside, though, I feel your pain. It's especially worse when it seems like the person is exploiting that "symbolism" shtick to get people to think they're some kind of artistic genius.

If you show a group of art majors something that was finger-painted by a 5 year old, they'll laugh you out of the room.
If you show them that same work and title it "The Depths of My Soul", they'll laud it as a masterpiece and throw college scholarships in your face.

*Sigh*
 

feather240

New member
Jul 16, 2009
1,921
0
0
I agree with what you're saying, but for a personal vendetta of DOOM!

Just because a book is deep doesn't mean it's also good.

It also doesn't mean that it deserves to be in school curriculum.
 

RebelRising

New member
Jan 5, 2008
2,230
0
0
Speaking even as a fan of my English classes, I can rightly say that while symbolism and allegory is central to a lot of very good literature and the like (political stuff, like "The Crucible" and "Inferno", especially), fleshing out ideas and enriching the text, it can condition people towards overanalyzing material and picking it apart, rather than taking in the reading as a whole.

That's my main gripe with this subject. Meaning is great for elaborating on specific ideas you want to communicate to the reader. But if you try to interpret every single sentence in every page in every chapter, you are going to fail to piece everything together, thus the reading experience may end up disjointed, and you miss out on simply enjoying the story and characters and language on their own terms.
 

SharPhoe

The Nice-talgia Kerrick
Feb 28, 2009
2,617
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
Three TV Tropes links in the first four posts?

*starts humming "I am the Walrus"*
Are you implying that "The Walrus" was Paul? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWalrusWasPaul]

Okay, I'll stop now.
 

Alex_P

All I really do is threadcrap
Mar 27, 2008
2,712
0
0
Citrus Insanity said:
I can appreciate a good poem, good song lyrics, and a good story, but one thing that has bothered me for a while is the pretense that these things can only be good if they contain some sort of hidden meaning or depth. Society seems accept that anything with any semblance of symbolism or ambiguity is to be embraced and praised, especially if it is too ambiguous to understand.
Symbolism isn't the only brand of "hidden meaning", though. There's also just plain old theme, a mainstay component in most forms of storytelling.

I'm concerned by this tendency for works without symbolic content to just say "Fuck it!" and eschew theme as well. Or to adopt one of the three or four designated Basic Feel-Good Themes and roll along on "entertainment". This is how we end up with works that say nothing (especially in video games).

Citrus Insanity said:
EDIT: Further reading [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible], and where I got the great word "obfuscation".
This one rocks, too: "obscurantism". It's really obfuscation raised to its own art form.

-- Alex
 

Thaius

New member
Mar 5, 2008
3,861
0
0
I agree. I'm tired of that, especially since it drives people to look for "hidden messages" and stuff that aren't even there. I'm tired of crappy movies winning awards because they talk about "important topics."
 

similar.squirrel

New member
Mar 28, 2009
6,020
0
0
Well..Usually, when a work is written [this applies especially to poetry], the author is drawing on his personal experiences and thoughts. So, in a sense, there are hidden meanings, regardless of whether he wants them in there or not. That's why it's always interesting to look at the author/poet's personal history and align certain events with his works. But to analyse a ditty and declare that it's about the sexual aspects of death is ridiculous.

Is how I see it. But as you can probably see, English is not my strong point.
 

Citrus

New member
Apr 25, 2008
1,420
0
0
RebelRising said:
That's my main gripe with this subject. Meaning is great for elaborating on specific ideas you want to communicate to the reader. But if you try to interpret every single sentence in every page in every chapter, you are going to fail to piece everything together, thus the reading experience may end up disjointed, and you miss out on simply enjoying the story and characters and language on their own terms.
Exactly. How many people actually enjoy Shakespeare nowadays? Maybe they would on their own, but when it gets forced down their throat during school, when they're forced to dissect every stanza and write pages upon pages about what he might have been "saying" in a given section of the work, it's no wonder his plays leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

Don't get me wrong, the guy was a damn prolific writer, but I highly doubt he intended half the things people read in to his works. People dedicate their lives to analyzing the guy's plays, if for no other reason than that they were taught in school that everything he says is an elaborate metaphor or symbol or message. To suggest that maybe he just wanted to write entertaining plays, not hide elaborate morals with obscure symbolism, is blasphemy.
 

Seldon2639

New member
Feb 21, 2008
1,756
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
<url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory>Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

But yes, I agree. It's incredibly off-putting. I usually don't bother looking for meaning, trusting them instead to leap out at me, if at all.
You win. You simply win.

On topic: you're more falling into the question of the affective and intentional fallacies. You want the intentional fallacy (which is that the meaning the author put into it is most important) to have primacy place. If the author didn't have a particular deeper meaning/allegory, there's no sense reading it into the work. Many others (especially modern critics and teachers) prefer the affective fallacy (the effect and meaning the work has to the reader is most important), and like to say (basically) "screw the author, if the work has meaning in and of itself, we don't have to care what the author thinks about it."

Especially when the author does leave ambiguity as to meaning (or even the existence of meaning), there's nothing inherently more "right" about assuming a lack of symbolism and allegory save for proof of its existence.
 

Citrus

New member
Apr 25, 2008
1,420
0
0
I don't have a problem with over-ambiguous works, though; I have a problem with the notion that something being overly ambiguous makes it good. The thing is that it can be incredibly easy to write anything if you make it sound deep, people will eat it up. I just don't think art should work that way; if some people enjoy the up-for-interpretation style of literature, that's great for them, but it definitely shouldn't have as great a place in our culture as it does.

It's not just poetry, either. The main thing I'm complaining about in this thread is that it's expected that any serious work to contain some kind of message or meaning or symbolism, and that the existence of this somehow automatically makes it better. That a very incomprehensible poem will be lauded over one more literal and to the point. This is why some shows randomly throw in Biblical allusions. They may not have any purpose, but they make people assume the show's better than it is.