CarlMinez said:
i7omahawki said:
No, not at all. The Nazi's wanted to create slaves to their ideas, they didn't want free thinkers or people who don't listen to authority. Nietzsche opposed nationalism, gave up his German citizenship, mocked fascists (including his sister and her husband), and cut off ties with anti-semites including Wagner and his own publisher.
The only way the Nazi's could claim Nietzsche as an influence was by bastardizing his work, with the help of his sister who owned his estate.
To be honest, the Nazi's were much closer to Plato's vision of a just city.
I think it's terrible that people won't listen to a philosophy that affirms life so deeply and honestly, because it has pseudo-connections to the Nazis. Yes Nietzsche thought that some people were better than others, but I don't think he ever implies anyone is more or less human, just that it is possible to be more than 'all-too-human'. Instead of demonizing or dehumanizing people, he just turns 'human' into a none too flattering term.
Anyway, I fear that the OT has been thoroughly lost in this conversation. I simply wanted to suggest that someone interested in the idea of eugenics should look at Nietzsche, as in different ways he offers critiques and support to those ideas (particularly in mixing races together. Not very fascist.) Whether that person agrees or disagrees isn't too important.
Well, firstly I'm not amongst those who would criticize Nietzsche for influencing the Nazis or anything of the like. It's just as stupid as criticizing Darwin for "inspiring" Hitler. But Nietzsche's philosophy doesn't appeal to me because it's founded on the idea that being the master of you own fate is the one thing that makes a man into a man, so to say. Because in practice, it would lead to egoistic hedonism. Or that people in society would only care about their own success.
Besides, didn't Nietzsche also say that an übermensch is a person who is superior because he doesn't allow himself to be deluded and manipulated by subjective feelings like empathy for others? Actually, one of the main points in Nietzsche's religious criticism was that the church and their view of humanity as one, common mass with one shared goal would hinder powerful, determined individuals to raise up and reach their own potential.
This is a dangerous philosophy to apply in our modern society because people shouldn't think that they are in position to make their own rules, nor that some people are superior and that others are inferior (even if it's not about race but what you have achieved as a human being as opposed to others). Instead, collaboration, empathy and equality are more suitable things in our modern day society.
Nietzsche lived in a very different world a very long time ago. His philosophy became famous because it was a part of existentialism and because of his very original view on religion and human potential. So yeah, I might have gone a bit far when i said that people shouldn't read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, but I don't think he is a suitable inspiration for anyone nowadays.
Hmm I am inclined to disagree, but it's good to see that you know
why you disagree, and I'd say that it's a good reason too.
The notion of pity and empathy is troubling in Nietzsche, and I won't pretend that what he might be saying is that we shouldn't be empathic or compassionate. However, I see it as not feeling pity, which is the word in my translation, and I think that pity is the last we need, and that you're right that compassion is what we should go for.
From my understanding of Mr Nietzsche, pity is a form of revenge, feeling bad for them because of a percieved failure, which intends to keep them in that state of failure.
Compassion, on the other hand, would be feeling sympathy when appropriate, when it can actually do some good. For all his work on solitude and loneliness, the parts on friendship in Zarathustra are very heartfelt indeed.
I think his reputation as an angsty, destructive philosopher sometimes distorts the cheerful spirit he often has.
Anyway, basically I think Nietzsche contributed a lot to thoughts on topics like eugenics, and really, anyone who worked after him, and took note of his thoughts, would be great too.
