Y'kno, y'coulda quoted him rather than leave it open to interpretation as to whom you were speaking. Little things like that do help.Turigamot said:
Japan makes cooler characters than everyone else...
- Thread starter Sean Hollyman
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh boy that was good joke.
Insomniac, Blizzard, Valve, Obsidian, Bethesda. Look them up sometime and see what games they make.
It of course an opinion as to what type of characters you find more appealing and thus what country you feel makes the better characters but don't say that America only makes guys with guns, that's basically reducing the America game industry to what Epic does. There is a wealth of characters on both side and I'm sure you can find someone you like made int he US if you look hard enough.
Insomniac, Blizzard, Valve, Obsidian, Bethesda. Look them up sometime and see what games they make.
It of course an opinion as to what type of characters you find more appealing and thus what country you feel makes the better characters but don't say that America only makes guys with guns, that's basically reducing the America game industry to what Epic does. There is a wealth of characters on both side and I'm sure you can find someone you like made int he US if you look hard enough.
I disagree in general. If you look at the notable characters from Japan, we come up with a fairly short list of things they make. The first is mascot style characters - that is characters mostly known for their appearance rather than anything else. Samus, Mario, Kirby - all of these characters are in a wide variety of games, from pure puzzle to action. The characters themselves tell us nothing about the sort of game we will get and with rare exception have very little in the way of actual characterization. These characters are remembered and well regarded because they have a history of being in excellent games rather than because they are good characters.
The second sort of the pure archetypal character, which would include Solid Snake, any character I can recall from a main series Final Fantasy and so forth. These are characters that follow a predictable and known character arc. What's more, these characters all tend to look similar to other examples of the same archetype. There is thus little to distinguish one from the next. These characters are often best remembered because of the story in which they existed rather than for any particular traits they themselves possessed.
The last common set is the stereotypical character. This is similar to the archetype except it serves the purpose of illustrating some social or political ideology. The villains in Resident Evil, Frank West and a host of others fill this role. These characters are not notable for anything more than the archetypal characters.
In the west, you'll generally find a lack of the mascot characters. While there are many possible explanations for this, perhaps the most important one is simply that most of the mascot characters from Japan simply have several decades on anything notable from the west. The west however if fond of both stereotypical and archetypal characters and uses them regularly.
The key difference I think has little to do with substance of character but rather style of presentation, and even here it would be impossible to say that one does better than the other. Sure, everyone in the Halo universe is dressed in an uninteresting way but then they are also dressed in a very pragmatic way. Their garb is not stylized; it is functional. Perhaps the best example of a distinction between the two comes from various giant robot games. The western interpretation tells us that the giant military robot is simply a bipedal tank with tremendous firepower but rather limited agility. By contrast, the japanese interpretation says that such a vehicle is essentially an incredibly large and super powered human with incredible mobility and agility. Where the western interpretation is grounded in realism and pragmatism, the Japanese interpretation is governed almost entirely by the rule of cool.
In the end, given that the difference is one of style, there is no "better"; there is only "different".
The second sort of the pure archetypal character, which would include Solid Snake, any character I can recall from a main series Final Fantasy and so forth. These are characters that follow a predictable and known character arc. What's more, these characters all tend to look similar to other examples of the same archetype. There is thus little to distinguish one from the next. These characters are often best remembered because of the story in which they existed rather than for any particular traits they themselves possessed.
The last common set is the stereotypical character. This is similar to the archetype except it serves the purpose of illustrating some social or political ideology. The villains in Resident Evil, Frank West and a host of others fill this role. These characters are not notable for anything more than the archetypal characters.
In the west, you'll generally find a lack of the mascot characters. While there are many possible explanations for this, perhaps the most important one is simply that most of the mascot characters from Japan simply have several decades on anything notable from the west. The west however if fond of both stereotypical and archetypal characters and uses them regularly.
The key difference I think has little to do with substance of character but rather style of presentation, and even here it would be impossible to say that one does better than the other. Sure, everyone in the Halo universe is dressed in an uninteresting way but then they are also dressed in a very pragmatic way. Their garb is not stylized; it is functional. Perhaps the best example of a distinction between the two comes from various giant robot games. The western interpretation tells us that the giant military robot is simply a bipedal tank with tremendous firepower but rather limited agility. By contrast, the japanese interpretation says that such a vehicle is essentially an incredibly large and super powered human with incredible mobility and agility. Where the western interpretation is grounded in realism and pragmatism, the Japanese interpretation is governed almost entirely by the rule of cool.
In the end, given that the difference is one of style, there is no "better"; there is only "different".
I'm too lazy to quote. But in reference to earlier conversation...
Battletech > Gundam.
Its stupid to compare them against each other, Just as stupid as most crossovers really are.
When I evaluate them individually I have to give the edge to Battletech. The designs are better, the "realism" (i understand giant robots are not exactly realistic, but battletech at least makes an effort to explain how it might work) is better, and the overall cannon is better. Gundumb robots do not look like machines of war. Battlemechs do.
Battletech > Gundam.
Its stupid to compare them against each other, Just as stupid as most crossovers really are.
When I evaluate them individually I have to give the edge to Battletech. The designs are better, the "realism" (i understand giant robots are not exactly realistic, but battletech at least makes an effort to explain how it might work) is better, and the overall cannon is better. Gundumb robots do not look like machines of war. Battlemechs do.
you do realize that every single character that appears in "anime" "videogames" "manga" and other stuff like that are stereotypes?Sean Hollyman said:
seriously, the silent strong man, the beautiful brawler, the smart with glasses girl, etc etc etc
and those "guys with guns" actually have a back-story that at least is a little bit plausible, relate able and/or interesting
i do love anime and their stories are amazing, but its hard to think the "Characters" are "cooler" than the other characters because they all come from the same spreadsheet just to try and appease as many people by giving them what they want, "stereotyping" the characters, reaching more audience.
show me one anime and i can tell you what the personality is of every character by looking at least one episode where that character appears... the things that are "Cooler" are the stories because they contain very very Japanese customs and values that we are not used to see and can relate to.
Ok, just so you know, Power Rangers was inspired by a Japanese version Spiderman, an American character, so you just disproved your own argument.Sean Hollyman said:
Second of all, watch Yahtzee's Final Fantasy 13 review, and behold as all those crazy characters and over the top plots you think are so awesome suddenly turn out to be cookie cutter remakes of previous games. The giant sword, planet busting, drug trip apparel shenanigans has been done to death so much that it's become a whole family of tropes (seriously go check out TV tropes. A good chunk of the stuff there comes from Japan alone)
HEY! Spartans are cool.
I'd say Japan is better at making characters, not just people. They have personalities, change, adapt, respond, etc. It's refreshing to play JRPGs because it's very much like playing through a novel, a very fun novel (most of the time). For example, the Tales of Symphonia characters are amazing. Each one has their own quirks, their own attitude, their own story, etc., which Americans just expect you to fill in with your choices and some mixture with your own life so as to get the "immersion" feeling.
I'd say Japan is better at making characters, not just people. They have personalities, change, adapt, respond, etc. It's refreshing to play JRPGs because it's very much like playing through a novel, a very fun novel (most of the time). For example, the Tales of Symphonia characters are amazing. Each one has their own quirks, their own attitude, their own story, etc., which Americans just expect you to fill in with your choices and some mixture with your own life so as to get the "immersion" feeling.
You do know that Japan weren't the first ones to start up the whole 'giant robot' thing right?
Do us a favour and read War of the Worlds and Starship Troopers.
I love both immensely by the way.
Do us a favour and read War of the Worlds and Starship Troopers.
Yeah but the West did 'Virtual Musician' and 'Live' first.CkretAznMan said:
I love both immensely by the way.
Well, just coming from that Escapist video 'The Myth of the Gun', I have a theory.
Japanese game developers feel the need to create the characters for you and, through them, master the game as your character masters his abilities. If they're giving you a role ready-made, it has to be an interesting role, so that you'll want to keep playing. American developers, on the other hand, prefer blank slate characters so that their audience can project themselves on to what they're doing.
Just a thought off the top of my head; I'm not saying I'm necessarily right.
Japanese game developers feel the need to create the characters for you and, through them, master the game as your character masters his abilities. If they're giving you a role ready-made, it has to be an interesting role, so that you'll want to keep playing. American developers, on the other hand, prefer blank slate characters so that their audience can project themselves on to what they're doing.
Just a thought off the top of my head; I'm not saying I'm necessarily right.
*facepalm* Read further up this page. Power Rangers comes from the Super Sentai branch of the Tokusatsu Genre, not Spiderman. Toei/Marvel-Spiderman simply provided host to where the Giant Robo for Battle Fever J (1979) came from as Sentai (Team, Squadron, Task Force) was already around from 1975 in Goranger and JAKQ.The Heik said:
And since the Giant Robo came from the Japanese version of Spiderman, that means it's still a Japanese invention (otherwise how the frack else would Spidey fight Godzilla or Mothra or other Kaijin which Japan gave us?!). Even if Toei didn't work with Marvel for the 1978 Spiderman, we'd still have gotten the giant Robo in Sentai in one form or another.
Well, that's certainly true for Bethesda's RPG's, and also table-top games like D&D, the emphasis in these RPG's is making your own characters and playing them rather than playing AS a certain pre-made character.DarkenedWolfEye said:
Generally though, i've always thought the Japanese were good at characterisation, and that comes through in a number, but not all, of their games, and same for their anime. Overall, the general quality of Western video game characters maybe isn't quite as good as Japanese ones because so many Western game characters are gritty, macho soldiers. Then again, notable exceptions include John Marston, Big Daddy, Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, Faith Conners and Cole Phelps. Baically, when Western dev's arn't making FPS's, they can make decent characters.
Still, if you look at Western literature and films then you could compile a massive list of intriguing and well developed characters. Beowulf, Sherlock Holmes, Ellen Ripley, the Doctor, Amile, Dr Frankenstein and numerous Shakespeare characters for instance.
Coming to think about it, you could also include Western god's whom seem to be pretty interesting and complex characters- Thor, Zeus, Loki and Wotan come to mind, but i'm sure Oriential god's are just as interesting as Western ones, if you count them as fictional characters.
