Japanese Game Industry Insiders Blame Endless Sequels for Declining Sales

FloodOne

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Apr 29, 2009
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Lt. Vinciti said:
Instead of copypaste of the same shit....why not...like Western Sequels...


IMPROVE ON WHAT YOU HAVE DONE!

MAKE THE GAME MORE AND MORE PLAYABLE THEN ONE NONENDING ANIMECGIMOVIE!

37,0000 Final Fantasy games...and it all plays the fucking same...

Walking thru Woods -> Encounter -> MrEvilBunny Dance -> Start Hit Each Other In the Face-

REPEAT....

I would love for Japan to produce a game that didnt include a whining emo kid for my backup...

Think of it in Call of Duty... "Jones get up there and defend us" "I cant...my mother died in the war...I cant go on!"
/rant/

/Terminate Rant
*clap...clap...clap*

Most uninformed, stereotyped and outright ignorant post of the thread right here.

Comparing Final Fantasy, which is an RPG, to Call of Duty, which is an FPS title, is apples to oranges.

Comparing each Final Fantasy to the next one, is also apples to oranges.

If you had actually played more than one of them, you would know that.

As far as Western RPGs.... Bioware has been making the exact same game with the exact same characters re-skinned forever. But nobody complains because it fits your tastes. The Japanese are a different culture, not everything has to be Americanized.

OT- The guys who have pumped out endless sequels blame endless sequels for stagnation. Stop the fucking presses.
 

Redd the Sock

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Sorry, but new properties can't seem to catch on as well as people would think. Like I've said before, Square Enix is releasing upteeen Final Fantasy remakes because Nier and The World Ends With You didn't do well enough. Meanwhile, anyone not expecting the upcoming pokemon games won't sell extremely well?
 

Tiswas

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I love how people are saying that the only Japanese games are JRPGs. That's like saying the only games in the west are FPS
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, I think sequels are a non-factor to be honest. Gaming has increased by leaps and bounds recently, and the whole "sequel-itis" problem has been there all through it. I think new IPs are going to help the situation, but not by bringing in entirely new customers.

I think Japan's biggest problem is, and always has been, keeping too many things Japan exclusive, OR releasing games in the US in such limited quantities that they are almost like ghosts on the market to minimize their risks.

There is nothing wrong with JRPGs for example, I think those who complain about them, are mostly complaining because it's not their genere and they feel that the time spent in releasing them could be spent in creating another shooter or whatever. This is the root of "genere wars" since only so many games can be translated/released at any time. People tend to feel that they need to attack the kinds of games they personally don't care for, so that more games of their genere of choice will be created.

At any rate, I think the big problem with JRPGs has been that a lot of the best titles never make it here. "Super Robot Taisen"/"Super Robot Wars", "Namco X Capcom", Soul Hackers, The Japanese "Wizardry" series, and tons of other games have simply never seen a US release, despite interest. This can also apply to a lot of fighting games and the like as well.

When we do see a lot of releases, it's again like a ghost a lot of the time. Your only chance of landing one of these games is to know it's coming out ahead of time, and hopefully getting a pre-order in. There is little or no advertisement or pre-release hype, as well. A lot of these games wind up becoming super-collectibles as a result where people hearing by word of mouth that a game is good, might have to pay three or four times the initial cost to get a copy through the collector's market. Rarely we'll see a re-release of a popular game like "SMT: Nocturne" or "Disgaea" that explodes in the shadow community, but that's rare, and by that point the games have aged and the interest has often (but not always) reduced.

Japan also has an issue where games that DO make it to the US audience see a release as much as a year or two after the game first comes out. This ultimatly means that when your looking at a lot of Japanese titles they are going to compare unfavorably in terms of graphics and the like to other new releases. "OMG this game looks like something from 2006" a gamer might proclaim in 2010, and the thing is that they might very well be right since we have seen games take that long to finally see a US debut.

I'll also say yet again that I think a lot of the problems are ultimatly a matter of racism. While a lot of people don't like to hear it. I went through a phase where I was pretty interested in reading translated Japanese magazines to keep up with nerd-culture over there. A recurring theme I noticed with both Video Games and Anime was simply that the Japanese base over there seems to feel that a US release/translation of a product cheapens it. Customers in many cases claiming that they will not buy a product that they know is going to see release in the US, wanting things to remain "Japan Only" and kept just for themselves. This most notably seemed to be the case where "Final Fantasy X" was turned into perhaps the most epic troll of video game history by not seeing the final chapter answering all the questions released outside of the US (It's called "Final Fantasy X: Final Mission"), I honestly think that bit is what tanked "Final Fantasy X-2" since few people wanted to play a game knowing they weren't going to see the actual end of the story. The second most epic troll was probably connected to the same game/series when an "International" edition was released to pretty much all countries except the US with expanded content and increased difficulty levels (International indeed!).

Japan is really good at making excuses for the lack of US releases, either due to not wanting to fight against censorship, or nonsensical arguements about liscencing fees which don't hold up to scrutiny given that just to make those games these had to have been dealt with (and let's be honest, any property introduced to the US market even indirectly has some chance of catching on and seeing more sales, racism and keping "things to ourselves" is a big motivation here).

The bottom line is that if Japan wants to start making more money in their game industry, why not you know... actually release games simultaneously to the global community when they are new. What's more instead of saying "wow, this is an awesome game, let's keep this to our own fans", perhaps releasing those games to the rest of the world will ALSO result in more money, I mean it's a novel concept, but it might result in the Japanese industry not getting clobbered by *mostly* pitting outdated second rate games even in their own market against the best rival developers can produce. When Japan was ahead of the curve they could sort of get away with that, but now that people have caught up, it's time for some humble pie and to put their best up against the best the rest of the market has. The old maxim of "it takes money to make money" also applies, in this case one thing Japanese developers are liable to need to do is invest money in PACs (Political Action Comittees) and Lawyers, and actually fight against censorship policies internationally (as well as domestically nowadays), as opposed to backing down since capitulation isn't going to result in more money than fighting.

As a side note, I think that one of the things that is catching up with the game industry is their refusal to fight against censorship. Even in the US it literally took until the 11th hour for the gaming industry to mount any kind of a signifigant defense (the current Supreme Court battle), in other countries it seems even worse. Japan's recent "adult content" woes seem to me to have occured largely due to half-arsed opposition, with very little counter campaigning in any kind of a public sense. Like in the US you saw tons of politicians buying air time to talk about the crisis, but very few people from the games industry doing the same kind of thing to produce pro-video game/free speech messages to also reach the mainstream. If your not a gamer, you probably didn't hear a lot of the counter-arguements in any official seeming capacity because they just weren't made publically.

As a result, the games industry is making less games that people want to play, especially the increasing number of older gamers who are now a market force. It's not surprising that the Japanese industry is one of the first to feel the shockwave (both from domestic and international causes) because they produce a lot of the most "extreme" and "mature" games that aren't intended for children. People recognize when things are being watered down or made "politically correct", and it's not surprising that market goes elsewhere, or stops buying games entirely if they aren't having fun with it. It's sort of like running a bar in a place where there is a law regulating water to alcohol level (which has ironically happened, but rarely lasted), a lot of people are going to go elsewhere, or if they can't stop drinking because simply put having a shot of whisky loaded as a "double" to include the required amount of tap water as "filler" to help prevent public drunkeness kind of defeats the purpose of ordering a shot of whiskey. The same applies to "Mature" games without "Mature" content.
 

Tiswas

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To be fair it's not just Japan with the sequels.

Halo is on what? 5? 6? now?

GTA is on about 7 too (excluding Lost and Damned.)

COD is on about 10 or so. Same with Medal Of Honour.
 

Aurgelmir

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Nov 11, 2009
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Will these Japanese guys stop playing the blame game and instead make good games!?

I mean Final Fantasy had 10 sequels before it all whent to hell, most of those games was pretty good (and some were at least not horrible) then 3 more sequels later they stopped making fun games and made something only a mother could love... So how is the endless sequels to blame.


That said I would love some more new titles, but not all of those sell well either. Take 'Valkyria Chronicles' for instance, it was innovative and pretty fun. But did it sell well? Not really? Why? (Personally I think its because people thought it would be another crappy JRPG, but thats another question for another day)

I don't think the games themselves is where you need to look, but I think as the teams making games grew bigger Japan and the West used this resource in different manners. Where as Japan continued on the "director based" model, where the director "creates" the game, the west seems to have gone for a more "team based2 model, where the director leads a creative team.

I think this difference in how games are created is the root of all the problems Japans games industry is having.

PS: Of course, churning out crap titles never help :p
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Apr 2, 2010
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Where do reboots sit with this? How many games are reboots, reimaginings, or remakes? There are a lot of sequels in cinema - are they turning off cinemagoers? Y'see sequels are just titles with interchangable numbers on the end, unless there's a definitive narrative stream running through a series like a trilogy of books or films, the more games you have in a series I'd imagine the easier it is for newcomers to get into it.

Or, you know, you can keep overseeing the very death of industry you predict.
 

pokepuke

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Dec 28, 2010
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I thought it was pretty obvious that what they meant was the big franchises are creating a monopoly and a barely penetrable market. They may make 5 million sales on Mario 26, but other games are suffering and their devs are possibly suffering as well. The devs may die off and you're now stuck relying on Mario most of the time.

Consider it as the infamously failed trickle-down economics.
 

Azabondiia

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Feb 18, 2010
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Bringing a new product to market is a very difficult thing to achieve - it takes years to do, and in order to make an impact in the market place, it also has to be heavily marketed (which costs a fortune).

When people talk about "surprise" hits, what they really mean is games that came out without any marketing, but still managed to get known by the game buying public - and through word of mouth (and internet), get pickup by a good percentage of the game buying public.

It's easier for publishers to make and sell sequels because there is already an established market for the game, but you also need to be reasonably quick at getting the sequel to market, or be able to get the public interested with a bit of hype that reminds people they enjoyed the previous one.

I don't believe there is a lack of new ideas in the games industry - but I do believe that the publishers do not want to risk too much money on untried games because its risky.

We'll get a steady drip of new stuff.

One glimmer of hope is that development companies (Like Rockstar for example), start to get reputations for making great games - so the public start to believe that ANYTHING that developer makes will be top draw stuff. So they get to make anything they want and it will be blessed because its "from the makers of" (remember that tag line on movie posters).

I'm a big fan of Jerry Bruckheimer - who is a producer, and I trust him to make good movies - so I generally watch anything he is involved in because I feel it will be good. - I suppose some people may feel the same way about Peter Molyneux or Shigeru Miyamoto, but we have less of that kind of thing in our industry (for now).

In time perhaps game makers will become part of that marketing that keeps a profile high - so that a "insert name here" directed game - helps boosts sale - no matter if its a new concept or a sequel.
 

LazyAza

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May 28, 2008
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These guys are kinda out of touch if they're only just noticing this. Sequel-itus has been a problem with the game industry since around 2000. The 90s was the last time I remember playing alot of quite diverse unique games on a regular basis.

I guess between insane budgets, fear of failure and overall just a lack of creativity in the industry we just aren't going to get more unique games until things change.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Im not convinced coming from guys that have been rehashing old franchises and generating countless sequels. (Kirby and Yakuza, really you're gonna blame old ideas and sequels for the decline when you're guilty of doing just that?)

If say the Head of ATLUS were to say something like this i'd give him more heed. Catherine sure as hell looks fresh. Who woulda thought to make an Erotic Thriller/horror game lol
 

Zero=Interrupt

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Nov 9, 2009
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Really, they're focusing too much on the whole sequel thing and not on the two essentials:

1) Good Gameplay
2) Good Gameplay

I have to want to keep playing the game for hours on end, because I just spent sixty goddamn dollars on it.

And when you have that down, Japan work on these:

3) Good Writing (an engaging story with characters I care about)
4) Good Art Direction (pick a good art team; also you will NOT use the egotistical creative director as a model for what the lead looks like unless she's a really, really hot girl.)

Arguably, they're far less guilty of violating number four than a certain other jerkbag studio who was just handed a hot property with guaranteed sales.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Zero=Interrupt said:
Really, they're focusing too much on the whole sequel thing and not on the two essentials:

1) Good Gameplay
2) Good Gameplay

I have to want to keep playing the game for hours on end, because I just spent sixty goddamn dollars on it.

And when you have that down, Japan work on these:

3) Good Writing (an engaging story with characters I care about)
4) Good Art Direction (pick a good art team; also you will NOT use the egotistical creative director as a model for what the lead looks like unless she's a really, really hot girl.)

Arguably, they're far less guilty of violating number four than a certain other jerkbag studio who was just handed a hot property with guaranteed sales.
Games don't need good gameplay anymore as they sale games on looks alone these days....