Je Suis Charlie

[webkilla]

snipped

Sunday off ...

HA!! That's a nice wish.

Anyway, you go right on a head and keep poking that bear in the hopes the bear gets over being poked, see how long it takes before the bear turns around and mauls the guy with the stick again.

I'll make sure to have the popcorn and a comfy chair ready when it happens again though, cause next time. I'm laughing at the victims.

I pity you. You say you will laugh at the next westerners who get murdered for expressing their free speech in a way that offends someone from quite possibly halfway across the world?

To think such a thing - let alone say it on a public forum like this. I pity you. You must live a very sad existence if that's the kind of amusement you hope for.

I also hope you live in a primarily muslim country - because I can assure you: Expressing that kind of opinion IRL in any western country will not earn you any favors. But then again, that's what you got your online grandstanding for. I hope you feel good about it. Make your parents real proud.


I for one stand by my opinions and will keep on exercising my free speech every may 20th. I doubt any gunmen will come for me due to my online galleries.

 

[faeshadow]

The amount of anti-Muslim bigotry (Muslim, not "Islamist". What are you guys, Fox News?) in this whole thread is disturbing to the point where I just... have nothing more to say on the matter except that.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

Before I deluge farther into this thread I'm going to lay down some facts for all of you.
1. Islam is a religion not a race.
2. There are currently more than 1.6 billion people that follow/believe in the Islamic faith world wide.
3. The Islamic faith is a religion mainly practiced by people of Muslim or Arabian decent.
4. The quran calls to kill anyone who insults the prophet Mohammad. Bukhari (4:241)

Now as far as this shooting and killing of twelve people go over a damn cartoon/comic, it's horrible. I don't have to like what the cartoonist was publishing. The fact is he was killed for running, drawing and doing a satirical news paper. You do not have to like what he was doing but no-one deserves to loose their life over it.

 

[Random Gamer]

1. Islam is a religion not a race.
3. The Islamic faith is a religion mainly practiced by people of Muslim or Arabian decent.

Huh?
Muslim is basically a believer of Islam, so that's not a race or an ethny either.
Then, Arabs make 20% of all Muslims - though they can be considered to be the plurality. But ironically, the largest Muslim populations don't even live in Arab countries - Pakistan, Indonesia, India, Bangladesh have way more Muslims than even Egypt, the heavy-weight Arab country.

 

[Pepep Popep]

Are you implying that Charlie deserved to be killed for expressing his views? If so thats low.

No, I'm not saying they deserved death for what they said, but saying it was what got them killed. They had the courage to risk their safety to speak openly and a lot of us (of course I'm including myself) simply lack that.

But stating their solidarity in any way they wish to does. You don't get to decide what makes them Charlie.

I don't get to decide that, the meaning of word does. Being Charlie makes you Charlie, most of us, remember them. And some newspapers join the je suis Charlie train, but republish their cartoons censored.

 

[cathou]

Not even close to being Charlie. Charlie exercised its right to blasphemy and paid for it dearly. So I'm not terribly impressed by all this "solidarity". Murder and hate aren't cool, thanks for the insight. But being as politically correct as possible, afraid of offending, won't make you Charlie.

Are you implying that Charlie deserved to be killed for expressing his views? If so thats low.

no, i think what he say is that a lot of people say today "Je suis Charlie", but saying it, doesnt make you Charlie. When news papers say that they are all with Charlie, but yet refuse to publish any of the front pages of Charlie with Mahommet on it ( NY times i'm looking at you) because it's not politically correct, you are approving the views of the extremists, not the views of Charlie Hebdo

 

[awesomeClaw]

So of the 100% that give a fuck about politics and how the land is governed, over 60% supports Islamists, and that is somewhow not proof that islamism has wide popular support?

Talk about an over-simplification. Need I remind you that this was the first sort-of democratic election held in Egypt in.. ever? And that the very same power that was voted in to power that year was ousted just a few years later? There are so many variables included in that situation that it's impossible to draw any such conclusions and have them mean what you think they mean.

Islamism stands in the way of progress. The only way to get rid of islamism, is to change the islamic culture so that fewer people turn to it.

I'm sorry, but that's a load of bollocks. Here's another thing to think about: maybe fewer people would turn to militant islamist extremism if fewer nations were bombing their homes and killing their families. Giving people weapons, military training and a reason to hold a grudge is a very good recipe for conflict.

Either way, if you're going to make blanket statements like that, let's be fair here. If we assume that the islamic culture is solely to blame for islamic extremism, islamic culture is equally solely responsible for creating:

Malala Yousafzai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Fawzia Koofi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fawzia_Koofi

Malcolm X
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X

Shirin Ebadi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirin_Ebadi

Mohammed ElBaradei
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei

Tawakkol Karman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawakkol_Karman

And organizations like

The Quilliam Foundation
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/about/

Alliance for Iranian women
http://allianceofiranianwomen.org/

Muslim Aid
https://www.muslimaid.org/

Islamic relief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Relief

Which turned up quickly with some cursory googling. Basically, Islam is kicking all sorts of ass. By this metric, Islam should just keep up the good work!

A first step could be deemphasising the importance of religion, which was what happend in Europe during the Enlightenment. Before, religious extremism(burning witches, inquistions, religious conflicts etc) were common. Afterwards, these problems disappeared fairly quickly.

Except for that guy a couple of years ago who went out and invaded countries on a self professed mission from god.
You know, George W. Bush. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

This is preposterous. He doesn't "grab facts out of the air", he made a slight mistake when compiling all the statistics.

He literally got every aspect of the statistics wrong, and used them for a disingenuous misleading and islamophobic purpose. What's preposterous is that you defend him for it.

Muslims are not a race. Get it right.

I'm fully aware. And yet it's used interchangeable to discuss the population of entire nations, which is what makes the islamophobic rhetoric so incredibly inane. You included, you say that muslim culture needs to change, yet "muslim culture" can mean a million things. And many things that have nothing at all to do with Islam.

Also, the statement wasn't that "rape was a form of expression" it was, "rape is deeply rooted in islamic culture". And it is. Just like it's deeply rooted in our culture. Not that long ago women were considered possesions of men. Those things stick. But it's much more disconcerting in the muslim world, because again, no enlightenment.

First of all:
"Självklart är våldtäkt ett uttryck för muslimsk kultur, det måste bero på något att män från muslimska länder är överrepresenterade i den här typen av brott. Det är en följd av den kultur som genomsyrar de här länderna."
http://www.blt.se/karlskrona/jomshof-islam-en-forklaring-till-valdtakt/

Shoddy translation: Of course rape is an expression for muslim culture, that men from muslim countries are overrepresented in this type of crime has to be because of something. It comes from the culture that permeate these countries.

If he wasn't deliberately trying to create an image of the 'muslims savage', why didn't he just say: "Rape is an expression of all culture"?

Secondly, "no enlightenment" is also inaccurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Wut? Being fascist and racist has nothing to do with being chrisitan? What kind of comparison is that? All fascists are not christians. All islamist extremists are muslims. The most important ingredient of an islamist extremist, is Islam. You cannot be an islamist extremist, if you are not a muslim.

Pedophilia has nothing to do with being christian, yet pedophile priests are all christian. No, the most important ingredient of an islamist extremist is extremism.

If christians in Europe were running around saying that the bible needed to be made into law and joining the "Lord's Liberation Army", I would be the first to admit that christian extremism was a serious problem. And it, for example in America, where women's bodies are controlled with religious scripture as motivation. That is bullshit. But that's not as big a problem as the islamists.

There are all kinds of people running around saying that the bible needs to be made in to law, and using religious scripture as motivation for controlling womens (and mens) bodies.
Here's a handy list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organizations_designated_by_the_Southern_Poverty_Law_Center_as_anti-LGBT_hate_groups

I suppose you're right. Can't draw any conclusions about underlying sympathies or feelings, nope, none at all. Just like you can't claim that there was underlying anti-semitism in Germany when the nazis were voted into power. I mean, it was like, their third or fourth election? No conclusions can be drawn. Too many variables.

Of course Islam can inspire some people to power through hard times and help people. Just as it can inspire people to take up the sword and slay the infidels. Things are not always all bad or all good. Islam has potential for good - but it (currently) has far more potential for harm.

George W. Bush was/is a fucking lunatic, and so are all religious extremists, everywhere. And yes, America has really, really serious problems with religious extremism and religion still being too big a part of society. You have me there.

Muslim culture = how religion is viewed in society, how the holy scripture is interpertated, how non-muslims are viewed... That may not be constant across all muslim nations(far from it!) but most have serious enough problem(20-99% support sharia) that a culture change is neccesary.

What's preposterous are your wild accusations. He got one number wrong, a number that's very easy to get wrong if you're compiling statistics. He used those numbers, combined with many others, to prove that the issue is not related "to a small minority", because IT ISN'T.

There are many thing that permeate almost the entire muslim world. The approval of Sharia, for example. And the like of Muhammed. And the importance of god, etc etc.

The reason he didn't say that, was because they were talking about Islam, and that Islam still hasn't fully abandoned the whole "women below men" thing(not that we have), but in muslim countries it's more pronounced. That's what he means.

The Islamic Golden Age is not at all comparable to the Enlightenment. Where, in the Islamic golden age, did they arrive at the conclusion that secularism is the best? Point me to a muslim philosopher from 1000 B.C who said that women should be equal to men, that religious influence in the civic life needed to be limited, and that democracy was a superior system of government.

Pedophilia and christianity is not related. That seems to be difficult to understand.

Being against abortion and being a christian, IS related. Being an islamist and being a muslim, IS related.

There sure is. Those people are dumb. Tell me an organisation in Sweden which has a similar motive, and consists of more than 1% of the population. And no, saying "Those dang racistfascistislamophobe Sweden Democrats", isn't going to cut it.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

1. Islam is a religion not a race.
3. The Islamic faith is a religion mainly practiced by people of Muslim or Arabian decent.

Huh?
Muslim is basically a believer of Islam, so that's not a race or an ethny either.
Then, Arabs make 20% of all Muslims - though they can be considered to be the plurality. But ironically, the largest Muslim populations don't even live in Arab countries - Pakistan, Indonesia, India, Bangladesh have way more Muslims than even Egypt, the heavy-weight Arab country.

Thank you for correcting me on those 2 key points, I should've realized this but I made a mistake.

 

[Lunar Templar]

sniped again

Freedom of expression will endure this, and end with even more staunch support then before, and probably lead to a new wave of Terrorist hunting. Cause you know the authority's are gonna wanna find they're buddy's before they can do anything.

In the end though. Nothing will have changed. Freedom of expression will remain intact, and unmolested. Terrorist will continue to exist, and no one will do anything to actually try and address the issues that lead people to becoming Terrorists, and will instead continue to do things to inspire more Terrorists to be created.

So you'll have to forgive me if I see these deaths not as 'tragic' but 'pointless' and as something that will really only another gear in the cog that keeps this cycle of hate we're stuck in going.

and why shouldn't I laugh at that?

 

[weirdee]

antilgbt hate crimes in russia, fueled by putin's law and backed by the church as one single, massive powerbase

attacks weekly, if not daily, against strangers, their own family members, property, firebombings, driveby shootings, using social media to trick people into what they think is a safe meeting, mob beatings, gangrape, murder, even on camera, proudly posted online, with almost no repercussions (every once in a while the police actually have to look like they're at least trying to do something, but it's always after the fact, and have been employed, many times, to uphold putin's law instead)

people randomly surveyed in the streets of russia either actually believe all the lies, or claim to in order to avoid being destroyed by their society

but nobody's jumping up to claim that the russian orthodox church represents the majority viewpoint of christianity, despite that russia is a pretty big nation

you don't see this stuff posted in all of the news sites, you don't see citywide vigils for the countless deaths and suicides

and then

what if i told you about all of the OTHER nations this is happening in, also in the name of christianity, who spout lines like "not adam and steve" even though none of them even knows what that means, as if somebody fed them lies about western demons even though those people wear their own masks to hide their intent

what if one of those nations was the us

I think an important distinction needs to be made here. What happens in Russia is propagated by russian Officials (putin in particular), upheld by law enforcement, is flat out made illegal and the Orthodox church is merely used as an excuse due to aligning ideals. Majority of people that commit these acts are not doing so in the name of Orthodox church (i never saw even one claim to) but instead they are doing it for other purposes.

In contrast, people that act like in this shooting are doing it excplicitly for their religion with the reasoning that their religion does not allow caricatures like that. They are doing it because of Islam.

That is why i think Islam is blamed in this case whereas Orthodox Church is not being blamed as much in the Russian case.

look, when people kill other people on the basis that those people are "immoral" and then start listing the same, highly specific reasons over and over, don't even try to pretend that it's not connected back to religion somehow, none of this shit happened as much as it did after the church took over, same as radical islam when they forced progressive leaders out of power, before that it was pretty normal

of course people have their own agenda, but they feel more empowered as part of a mob mentality and find it easier to propagate their goals when they have religion behind them, just think of how hard it has been for civil rights all these years, do you really think that religion just had a minor role in that, where do these ideas come from and how do they tie back into the present day

how do you think putin rose to power, and why is it that his campaign to solidify his power specifically focuses on weeding out made up corruption from people that the church singles out for condemnation

 

[epthorn]

It's a lot easier to express solidarity than actually join the fight for free expression.

 

[MrMan999]

It's a lot easier to express solidarity than actually join the fight for free expression.

For a lot of us, expressing Solidarity is really all we can do. A lot of us are in different countries, various financial situations. A lot of us can't even afford to donate anything. So showing solidarity is all we can do.

 

[dalek sec]

All I have to say is the following:

If you need a fucking AK to defend yourself against some cartoons, you have massive problems.

I hope their next issue sells out just to spite these monsters.

Je Suis Charlie.

 

[Arluza]

that doesn't change the fact that a lot of CH's work is racist and that "solidarity" with them is not exactly what we need.

Islam is a religion, not a race. Being a Muslim is a choice. You can not choose to be born black, Asian, white, or whatever.

Solidarity with CH is exactly what the world needs, because 10 years is half a lifetime to the Muslim Extremist morons who killed Denmark cartoonists in 2005. The same thing happened then too. The world solidified its idea that radical muslims are a cancer to this world. The difference between this event and Denmark is mostly which country we're talking about. It's a shame Hitchens is dead and can't call bullshit when people like you call this a race thing and defend Islam's extremists.

 

[chikusho]

I suppose you're right. Can't draw any conclusions about underlying sympathies or feelings, nope, none at all. Just like you can't claim that there was underlying anti-semitism in Germany when the nazis were voted into power. I mean, it was like, their third or fourth election? No conclusions can be drawn. Too many variables.

Exactly my point. When the Nazis were voted into power, they got around 18 percent of the votes, during a time of great turmoil known as the great depression. At most, before banning parties and passing laws that turned Hitler to a dictator, they got around 30 percent voter support. And they got many of those votes by promising to fix the economy, to save Germany from communism and to restore law and order from military skirmishes in Germany (that his party actually instigated). That is, not necessarily because the German people wanted to kill the jews. The anti-semitic rhetoric was rarely stated outright, but implied and insinuated throughout their campaign.
Hitler did, in fact, not have the support of most of the German people. Most of the German people were ordinary people just like you and me who just wanted to get through the day.
Funnily enough, Hitler has many times outright stated that the Nazi part is a Christian party, and that he would not tolerate attacks against christianity. By your logic, the Vatican should probably have tried to change christian culture to make sure people weren't attracted to the nazi army..

Of course Islam can inspire some people to power through hard times and help people. Just as it can inspire people to take up the sword and slay the infidels. Things are not always all bad or all good. Islam has potential for good - but it (currently) has far more potential for harm.

That's simply inaccurate. You can't actually be saying that a belief system held by way over a billion peaceful people has "far more potential for harm". Because if you do, you might as well say that western society can both inspire people to lead good productive lives as well as to pick up the drone and slay the 'terrorists'.

Muslim culture = how religion is viewed in society, how the holy scripture is interpertated, how non-muslims are viewed... That may not be constant across all muslim nations(far from it!) but most have serious enough problem(20-99% support sharia) that a culture change is neccesary.

So, by that reasoning, it might just as well be political, national, international, socio-economic or other problems. Not necessarily religious ones. Besides, 'Sharia law' means different things in different places, and "islamist" is nothing even bordering on a united movement. Besides, an expression of passive support far from militant extremism.

What's preposterous are your wild accusations. He got one number wrong, a number that's very easy to get wrong if you're compiling statistics. He used those numbers, combined with many others, to prove that the issue is not related "to a small minority", because IT ISN'T.

I broke it down for you a few posts ago. If you have put together the details of his statements like a puzzle to even understand what he's talking about, he's basically gotten everything wrong.
Wrong numbers attributed to the wrong thing for the wrong election. All to support an point and an insinuation that doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

There are many thing that permeate almost the entire muslim world. The approval of Sharia, for example. And the like of Muhammed. And the importance of god, etc etc. The reason he didn't say that, was because they were talking about Islam, and that Islam still hasn't fully abandoned the whole "women below men" thing(not that we have), but in muslim countries it's more pronounced. That's what he means.

Exactly, he's singling out a global aspect, attributing it to 'scary foreigners', insinuates a connection between them and then lets paranoia and confirmation bias do the rest. Classic propaganda technique.

The Islamic Golden Age is not at all comparable to the Enlightenment. Where, in the Islamic golden age, did they arrive at the conclusion that secularism is the best? Point me to a muslim philosopher from 1000 B.C who said that women should be equal to men, that religious influence in the civic life needed to be limited, and that democracy was a superior system of government.

It's right there in the link:

"Perhaps the most significant feature in the Fatimid era was that freedom which was given out to the people and liberty was given to the minds and reasons. Man may believe in whatever he likes provided that he may not infringe other rights. Fatimids reserved separate pulpits for different Islamic sects, where the scholars expressed their ideas in whatever the manner they liked. Fatimids gave patronage to scholars and invited them from every place, spending money on them and neglecting what they believed in, even though it was against the beliefs of the Fatimids."


Also, there's this guy called Muhammad that maybe you've heard of.
"And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer - those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, [even as much as] the speck on a date seed."
http://quran.com/4/124

Pedophilia and christianity is not related. That seems to be difficult to understand.

Not anymore than extremism and Islam. They are separate things that occur separately for different reasons.

Being against abortion and being a christian, IS related. Being an islamist and being a muslim, IS related.

But being against abortion is not exclusive to being a christian. And being an extremist is not exclusive to being a muslim. Ergo, the problem is not with the religion, but with the extremism.

There sure is. Those people are dumb. Tell me an organisation in Sweden which has a similar motive, and consists of more than 1% of the population. And no, saying "Those dang racistfascistislamophobe Sweden Democrats", isn't going to cut it.

Oh, so THOSE people are just "DUMB"? NOT caused by a set of beliefs shared by billions of people? Interesting...

So a racist party in parliament isn't good enough for you for some reason? Even though their electorate is most obviously signified by being xenophobic? And also, for an equally strange reason, only in Sweden?
Fine, how about the fact that about 14 percent of people in Sweden support government sanctioned murder.
http://fof.se/tidning/2013/3/artikel/dodsstraff-pa-fallrepet

 

[Draconalis]

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/01/in-the-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

This article is so fucking stupid... I don't even know where to begin.

I wanted to comment on how stupid it was on the actual page, but I couldn't figure out how... so now I'm making myself content with making this comment no one will read.

Fuck that Jacob guy. He's an idiot.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I'd really rather not be Charlie, except in the very broadest sense of the term. Sure, it's necessary to support them as far as "free speech" and all that, and any loss of life is tragic. But after seeing their work, I can safely say that in any other circumstances, they'd strike me as a bunch of homophobic, misogynistic, racist assholes. Being a "satirist" who "makes fun of everyone" doesn't insulate you from being that, and kind of makes you a terrible satirist besides.

Sure, they weren't doing anything that deserved death, but there is no inherent conflict between "I think you're horrible" and "you didn't deserve to be victimized." Frankly, even seeing this as a "free speech" thing is kind of missing the point. 12 satirists weren't killed by Islamic extremists over cartoons. They were killed to try to make the extremists look like a necessary evil to a group of Muslim civilians who otherwise consider them nothing but violent lunatics.

 

[NeutralDrow]

4. The quran calls to kill anyone who insults the prophet Mohammad. Bukhari (4:241)

...what are you citing? I have a Qur'an in front of me, and Surah 4 only goes up to 176.

 

[ZiggyE]

To all these people saying that muslim extremists are a minority and, for this reason, it isn't a problem with Islam are being ridiculous.

There have been three terrorist attacks in three different western nations in the past few months, Canada, Australia and now France. Here are some fun statistics as well.

Spoiler

Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.

http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/10/31/sixty-percent-of-us-muslims-reject-freedom-of-expression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/poll-nearly-half-of-us-muslims-believe.html

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

http://people-press.org/report/206/a-year-after-iraq-war

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda?s attitude toward the U.S.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

Informal poll of Saudis in August 2014 shows 92% agree that Islamic State (ISIS) "conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law."

http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.

http://cnsnews.com/node/53865 (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Poll%20Nov%2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Nov04.asp

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

So, is it a minority? Yes. But it is a significant minority. We can't close our ears and say "it's just a few extremists, it has nothing to do with actual islam", because it DOES have to do with Islam. It is a significant portion of muslims who are committing these actions or believe these actions to be justified because of their religion. The very act of trying to distance Islam from Islam-inspired terrorism committed by Muslims is ridiculous. Sure, there's nothing wrong with being a muslim and holding moderate views, and the majority of muslims in the west are moderates, but we can't pretend that extremism isn't relevant to muslim culture.