Jim & Yahtzee's Rhymedown Spectacular: Taking Gaming Seriously

Jim And Yahtzee

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Taking Gaming Seriously

Put on your poetry hats and join two of the greatest wordsmiths of our generation as they fill your ears with verse.

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theyellowmeteor

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I wonder if Yahtzee is going to do more poetry centered around the Keretic. I wonder if it's a lyrical transposition of how he became a critic, or just a commentary on the immediate reality.
 

Imp_Emissary

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HA! :D Beautiful poem there Jim. A somewhat old message, but ya seem to have had fun with it.

I thought you liked Lets Players, Yahtzee. Though, I guess the point was that they aren't normally the best source for criticism.
 

Imp_Emissary

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theyellowmeteor said:
I wonder if Yahtzee is going to do more poetry centered around the Keretic. I wonder if it's a lyrical transposition of how he became a critic, or just a commentary on the immediate reality.
I thought it was just commentary, but I guess it could also be based on how he became a critic.

Though, was pewdiepie around back when Yahtzee was starting out?
 

Goliath100

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God, I hate those people that's all: "Take gaming seriously as an artistic medium." And when someone are but it's inconvenient for them, they are all like: "It's just a game." We need way more shots on those people.
 

Steve2911

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Eh I'm on the fence about the issue regarding Jim's poem. I want games to be taken seriously, to the same extent that movies, books and music are. And movies and books are no strangers to rape scenes.

Whether you think GZ trivializes rape/child rape is another issue entirely, but its mere inclusion shouldn't be considered a problem (though I agree with Laura Kate Dale that the PEGI rating should have been clear on the content), and a few too many people are up in arms that the game features such content at all, and don't even bother persuing the context/wider issue.

Basically I think having these sorts of issues come up and having them debated is a positive step towards the medium being treated with as much respect as any other. It's part of the growing pains that come with evolution, and I'm excited to see what direction this sort of thing takes in the future.
 

Darth_Payn

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Jasper van Heycop said:
Lol did Yahtzee just take a jab at Sarkeesian and the SJW crowd? If so my day has been made.
It's more like he took a stab at people who whine about games they don't like and people who act elitist about games without saying why. But your interpretation's funny too. I thought Jim was taking on SJW's.
 

Mahoshonen

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Goliath100 said:
God, I hate those people that's all: "Take gaming seriously as an artistic medium." And when someone are but it's inconvenient for them, they are all like: "It's just a game." We need way more shots on those people.
The problem is that while there are individuals that do engage in this hypocrisy, more often I feel that the perception is just conflating two different internet voices as part of the same amorphous mass that is the internet, as though all internet posters belonged to a hive mind.

More useful is to zero in on a notable personality and highlight his or her contrary opinions.

For example: in this episode of the Jimquisition, Mr. Sterling takes a very harsh stance against industry practices that he sees as harmful to consumers. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8942-Monetizing-Whales-For-The-Retention-Of-Virality] This is just the latest in a running theme of episodes where Jim hoists himself up as the defender of the common gamer.

But in this episode, Jim chastises those very same gamers for being abusive towards those that work in the industry, wondering if we perhaps deserve the shitty, samey, and consumer-unfriendly products we get when we drive off anyone with talent. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7955-Im-Going-To-Murder-Your-Children] This admonishment ignores the fact that Jim engages in this sort of verbal haranguing all the time, and even if he does it more gracefully, Jim ought to know that his notoriety is going to inspire others to do the same, and with far less tact.

But then, the hardest hypocrisy to detect is when it comes from your own mouth.
 

Fsyco

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Darth_Payn said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
Lol did Yahtzee just take a jab at Sarkeesian and the SJW crowd? If so my day has been made.
It's more like he took a stab at people who whine about games they don't like and people who act elitist about games without saying why. But your interpretation's funny too. I thought Jim was taking on SJW's.
Both are valid interpretations. Yahtzee has made it clear he has quite the unfavorable view of SJWs on his Youtube Channel. Most of his Let's Drown Out series contain at least one jab at SJWs.

Steve2911 said:
Eh I'm on the fence about the issue regarding Jim's poem. I want games to be taken seriously, to the same extent that movies, books and music are. And movies and books are no strangers to rape scenes.

Whether you think GZ trivializes rape/child rape is another issue entirely, but its mere inclusion shouldn't be considered a problem (though I agree with Laura Kate Dale that the PEGI rating should have been clear on the content), and a few too many people are up in arms that the game features such content at all, and don't even bother persuing the context/wider issue.

Basically I think having these sorts of issues come up and having them debated is a positive step towards the medium being treated with as much respect as any other. It's part of the growing pains that come with evolution, and I'm excited to see what direction this sort of thing takes in the future.
Seconded, although part of the problem is that Hideo Kojima doesn't exactly handle the issue well. Metal Gear Solid 4 had you shoot up traumatized women, and then Phantasm (50 internets to who gets this reference) would call you and tell you their backstory after they died. It didn't really contribute anything meaningful to the plot, and they didn't develop well as characters. Haven't played GZ or PW, but that might be another mistake Kojima has repeated.

It's really hard to portray anything like that, though, without being accused by somebody of trivializing or glorifying the issue, regardless of context. Some people just have a knee-jerk "WE SHOULD PRETEND IT DOESN'T EXIST" reaction to such content.
 

geier

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Sorry for beeing "that guy", but what do the abbreviations "GZ", "PW" and "SJW" mean?
 

Fsyco

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geier said:
Sorry for beeing "that guy", but what do the abbreviations "GZ", "PW" and "SJW" mean?
PW=Peace Walker, a Metal Gear Solid game on PSP later ported to PS3 and Xbox360 where you play as a mercenary named Big Boss and go do sneaky things and build a base.
GZ=Ground Zeroes, a prequel/demo thing for the next Metal Gear Solid game, The Phantom Pain.
SJW=Social Justice Warrior, a term that describes people who lash out against things in the name of Social Justice or equality, and generally a derogatory term. They're like the liberal versions of white supremacists, basically.
 

Zealous

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geier said:
Sorry for beeing "that guy", but what do the abbreviations "GZ", "PW" and "SJW" mean?
If I'm not mistaken, "GZ" and "PW" are abbreviations of two Metal Gear Solid titles (Ground Zeroes and Peace Walker respectively) which feature objectionable content in some people's eyes. "SJW" is an acronym for Social Justice Warrior, people who go out of their way to find offence in anything and everything.

Edit; NINJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!
 

Evonisia

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Jim, what a lovely take down of people who can't own up to gaming's faults. It kinda reminds me of when MovieBob did the whole "Why are we talking about this stuff? Just tell me about the fps and the -" etc.
 

UNHchabo

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Mahoshonen said:
More useful is to zero in on a notable personality and highlight his or her contrary opinions.

For example: in this episode of the Jimquisition, Mr. Sterling takes a very harsh stance against industry practices that he sees as harmful to consumers. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8942-Monetizing-Whales-For-The-Retention-Of-Virality] This is just the latest in a running theme of episodes where Jim hoists himself up as the defender of the common gamer.

But in this episode, Jim chastises those very same gamers for being abusive towards those that work in the industry, wondering if we perhaps deserve the shitty, samey, and consumer-unfriendly products we get when we drive off anyone with talent. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7955-Im-Going-To-Murder-Your-Children] This admonishment ignores the fact that Jim engages in this sort of verbal haranguing all the time, and even if he does it more gracefully, Jim ought to know that his notoriety is going to inspire others to do the same, and with far less tact.

But then, the hardest hypocrisy to detect is when it comes from your own mouth.
Umm... in the second video, Jim said it's not okay to issue death threats when a developer or publisher does something you don't like. In what way did he turn his back on the consumer by saying that?
 

Fsyco

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Mahoshonen said:
Goliath100 said:
God, I hate those people that's all: "Take gaming seriously as an artistic medium." And when someone are but it's inconvenient for them, they are all like: "It's just a game." We need way more shots on those people.
The problem is that while there are individuals that do engage in this hypocrisy, more often I feel that the perception is just conflating two different internet voices as part of the same amorphous mass that is the internet, as though all internet posters belonged to a hive mind.

More useful is to zero in on a notable personality and highlight his or her contrary opinions.

For example: in this episode of the Jimquisition, Mr. Sterling takes a very harsh stance against industry practices that he sees as harmful to consumers. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8942-Monetizing-Whales-For-The-Retention-Of-Virality] This is just the latest in a running theme of episodes where Jim hoists himself up as the defender of the common gamer.

But in this episode, Jim chastises those very same gamers for being abusive towards those that work in the industry, wondering if we perhaps deserve the shitty, samey, and consumer-unfriendly products we get when we drive off anyone with talent. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7955-Im-Going-To-Murder-Your-Children] This admonishment ignores the fact that Jim engages in this sort of verbal haranguing all the time, and even if he does it more gracefully, Jim ought to know that his notoriety is going to inspire others to do the same, and with far less tact.

But then, the hardest hypocrisy to detect is when it comes from your own mouth.
I don't see any hypocrisy here. Jim's not defending all consumers, he's defending the medium from threats in both the consumer side and the corporate side. He's dedicated many videos to shitty practices on both sides of the fence, and those two videos illustrate it. Business practices that antagonize consumers are just as harmful as consumer activity that hurt and antagonize businesses. Just because he's pro-consumer doesn't mean he can't call out consumers on their awful behavior. In fact, if he didn't, he'd be perpetuating lies and harmful ways of thinking. Thank God for Jim Sterling.
 

Master_of_Oldskool

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This Peace Walker/Ground Zeroes controversy is totally new to me. Anyone care to explain things to the dumbass?

Also, good poems, good points, hoping to hear more about the Keretic.