Jimquisition: Accepting the Isms

[Hazy992]

Yeah I agree, I don't know how the hell this black or white, all or nothing mindset of where you're either for something completely or you're completely against it has gained so much traction these last few years. There is a middle ground you know. I mean the whole 'Girlfriend Mode' thing was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Borderlands 2 as a whole does it?

And if you truly loved a series you should be the harshest critic of its shadier aspects as you don't want something like that repeated.

 

[Pinkamena]

I agree with your ideas and opinions when it comes to games, but your opinions on movies? No way in hell.

 

[MarlonBlazed]

I didn't realize that I was afraid of people taking away video games, I just thought all these things had a place contextually. Boy is my face red.

 

[luvd1]

And movie defence force is not a "thing". It is a movement.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile.

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Yeah, I saw how long the thread was about the dead island torso and I didn't even want to touch it. It didn't help when I indirectly found out that mid debate, one poster had gotten suspended for posting a picture of a middle finger to a guy he was debating with, and saying that he didn't even care if he got suspended. I personally never really liked that poster, but it really does show how volatile this website can get at times.

I think I posted in one of these threads... Shame on me.
And why would anyone post the PICTURE of a middle finger? Did the poster lack the necessary vocabulary to adequately express the feelings he had towards the forum member that invoked his wrath?

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

That Skyrim example is a bit crap. Firstly because the game itself never states that a woman having sex with different men consecutively is wrong, secondly because the quest is given to you by a woman seeking to embarrass another into easing up on her in terms of workload rather than believing what she's doing to be wrong. Your point was solid, just conversely saying that being offended by something in a game, while fine in itself, does not inherently mean the problem is with the game.

 

[MortisLegio]

I whole heartedly agree with you Jim. I don't know why some people get so defensive about small things like discussions on sex in games or other similar topics. People have different views on any given subject and could bring to light something you (the person reading this and not necessarily Jim) never thought of before. I mean I guess people are closed minded to certain things (and I do mean ALL people, not just a particular group) and just don't want to find any fault with something they care a lot about...

Did I just answer my own question?

Anyway, I think discussion of ideas should happen more than just "pick a side" debates that are very common.

 

[wizzy555]

Oh and I call bullshit on using screenshots of modded versions of skyrim to promote the sexism angle.

Predictable reply: Oh but this just proves that the community is sexist because they use mods.

yes but you were talking about the game design not the community.

 

[Stemer]

I actually really agree with all of the points you raise in the video, but you are one massive hypocrite.
There are really obvious parallels between the ways you criticize gamers for behaving with regards to sexism and the way you and other gams jarnalists behave whenever anyone dares to imply that there could be any link, no matter how small between violent video games and aggression.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Personally, I loved Duke Nukem Forever. I can obviously understand why people would find it offensive, and I'll admit the strip club level bothered me a bit and was completely unneeded. To me, Duke Nukem is pretty much the South Park of games in the sense that it just trashes everything. Yeah, he is a sexist asshole, but how is that any different from some white trash racist in a movie or TV show?

 

[Erttheking]

To be perfectly honest I think this website in general has made me more paranoid in general. I don't want to talk about racism sexism or homophobia in video games, Hell, I'm starting to reach the point where I don't want to talk about ANYTHING in video games because this website can be rather volatile.

YOU HAVE A VIDEOGAME AVATAR, HOW DARE YOU, YOU ARE CLEARLY RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND AN ATHEIST FUNDAMENTALIST AS WELL AS A CREATIONIST. TO THE TORCHES EVERYONE!!11!!!

On a related note:
I am getting weary of talking about anything related to gender, race, etc..., simply because I feel that I have heard most every argument already and that regurgitating them won't make them any fresher.

Yeah, I saw how long the thread was about the dead island torso and I didn't even want to touch it. It didn't help when I indirectly found out that mid debate, one poster had gotten suspended for posting a picture of a middle finger to a guy he was debating with, and saying that he didn't even care if he got suspended. I personally never really liked that poster, but it really does show how volatile this website can get at times.

I think I posted in one of these threads... Shame on me.
And why would anyone post the PICTURE of a middle finger? Did the poster lack the necessary vocabulary to adequately express the feelings he had towards the forum member that invoked his wrath?

I dunno. I only looked at his post, I didn't even know which side of the debate he was on, I bailed right after that. I don't mind debates, but frankly when the Escapist isn't talking about how much something sucks (That recent thread about which ME squad mate they hated the most was particularly stuffed with bile and cussing) we're having rage fueled debates on how someone in wrong for thinking a certain way (I recently got called a sheep for owning an Ipod) and really it seems like debating via yelling is all we ever do. I mean there's a time and a place for it, but it just feels like it goes on all the time and it just makes me feel weary. I just want to talk about video games without shouting and without saying what I hate about them every once in awhile.

 

[GenGenners]

Given the links and attitudes the wider population attributes to videogames, and what certain groups have historically ripped on videogames for, I would say that gamers are entirely justified in being paranoid. By the way Jim, those groups DO try to take our games away from us.

 

[Entitled]

I'm not so sure the issue with criticizing games triggers some reaction where people think their games will be taken away. Essentially, when you call something 'sexist', you are pointing a finger at something that you find immoral. When that sort of thing happens, I think people extrapolate the essence of the criticism beyond the game. People will think, "If the game sexist is, then that means the developers were," and, "If the game is sexist, are you calling me sexist for enjoying this game?" That line of thinking immediately puts people on the defensive, and they then spew out a bunch of nonsense.

I agree about that, that's why I try to use the "ism"-s restrictively. These should be about either authorial intent, or at least subconscious negative implications, not about coincidences and justifiable-in-context situations.

For example, a movie can fail the Bechdel test for being in an accurate historical scenario, for having a satirically sexist setting that it's message mocks, or even just by a coincidence. There is no point in calling either of them sexist.

BUT the fact that such an overwhelming majority of movies keep failing the Bechdel test while they would pass it's reverse, certainly tells us something about Hollywood's nagative treatment of women.

There is a lot more reason to worry about a game that appears to willingly enforce actual sexist stereotypes that are present in our society, than the ones where the characters are not "equal" in some arbitary way.

 

[maninahat]

Even once you get around the issues raised by Jim, people fall back to the next like of defence: filling the comment section with "I didn't see anything wrong", "you're being over-sensitive" and "you're just looking to be offended" remarks. These aren't smart things to say, people. You're basically either admitting being oblivious, or simply dodging the issue by confronting the person instead of their argument. Neither are very convincing and there are better ways to tell someone they are wrong.

 

[Erttheking]

Even once you get around the issues raised by Jim, people fall back to the next like of defence: filling the comment section with "I didn't see anything wrong", "you're being over-sensitive" and "you're just looking to be offended" remarks. These aren't smart things to say, people. You're basically either admitting being oblivious, or simply dodging the issue by confronting the person instead of their argument. Neither are very convincing and there are better ways to tell someone they are wrong.

*sigh* I guess I could see the problems some people have with Tomb Raider. I highly disagree and I would be eager to explain and debate why I don't think it's sexist though.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

So you mean instead of trying to destroy things we don't agree with, we should listen to the points people make, and then make our counterpoints until we both come to an impasse and make a compromise that both parties can agree on?

<_< Hmmmm.... Well I like it and I'll support it, but I don't know if such a strange new idea will gain popular support.

Good luck, and thank God for you Jim!

 

[franksands]

I think it depends, we should not always forgive a game for offensive material. If the offensive material is a core part of the game, for example DoA Extreme Beach Volleyball, which can be considered sexist and misogynistic and it's a core part of the game: we cannot take off the bouncing boobs and etc without virtually removing the whole game. I think that should be the rule of thumb: if removing offensive bits the game as a whole is still functional and engaging, it's acceptable.

 

[maninahat]

This helps compensate for the badly-missed point of the "Easy Mode" video

Aww, you don't have to feel like compensating for missing the point of my video.

So Jim, all this talk about "compensating"...
Are you trying to tell us something?

Yes.

Instead of a penis, I have a really small talking car between my legs. It sings at night.

It's driving yur nuts!

 

[franksands]

Even once you get around the issues raised by Jim, people fall back to the next like of defence: filling the comment section with "I didn't see anything wrong", "you're being over-sensitive" and "you're just looking to be offended" remarks. These aren't smart things to say, people. You're basically either admitting being oblivious, or simply dodging the issue by confronting the person instead of their argument. Neither are very convincing and there are better ways to tell someone they are wrong.

*sigh* I guess I could see the problems some people have with Tomb Raider. I highly disagree and I would be eager to explain and debate why I don't think it's sexist though.

Please tell me in a civil and logic manner why Lara being a victim of rape, just so we as the player could try to "protect her" is not sexist?

 

[T3hSource]

If only this was possible actual conversations about sexism in general media could be had,but so far the conclusion is: most people are OK with it to a certain extent where it becomes uncomfortable. My example would be not killing Lady Boyle in Dishonored,maybe I should have just thrown her into the river,the investigation would have found out that she was just drunk
As for Hitman 4B0M1N4T10N nun trailer,while spectacular,it didn't appeal to me with the Saints, and I just find the Dead Island marketing stunt just to be distasteful.

Also Jim...this might interest you: http://tmblr.co/Zmo4ytby_kd-