Jimquisition: Damn Fine Coffee

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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I don't think Overstrike would have been a much better game. It might have had better aesthetics and it was probably supposed to be lighthearted and humorous, but I don't think the core gameplay mechanics would be any different than they are in Fuse, and reviewers aren't really praising those.

But it's easier to see all the flaws when the game is so dull that every single boring thing doesn't even have a place to hide. At least in Overstrike the boring shooting could have been hidden behind some pretty stuff.
 

I.Muir

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I remember having this particular conversation with randoms on /v/ a month ago
 

CyberMachinist

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Atmos Duality said:
CyberMachinist said:
snip
The only question now is when? When will the field that is the gaming industry stop being fertile and you won't be able to grow the same game types anymore? cause at the moment it seems like there is still some nitrates in this field.

I'm pretty sure it was entrepreneurs like bill gates and Henry ford that changed their trade businesses old mindset and made enormous profits off it, granted I'm not sure if these are good examples but you know what I'm trying to say.

This kind of thing is what happens when you let old men run the world(a little reference for you) they can't replicate the same success that their outside-thinking predecessor made so they end up doing what they think will work based on the past because they don't have the same insight as the guy who knew how it worked and how to go beyond it.

captcha; Dalek asylum? Aren't we all in an asylum in this world filled with Daleks.
 

Zeraki

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I never heard of Overstrike before... and now I'm sad that I have. That game actually looked interesting. The game it turned into, looks like just another generic pile of 'meh'.
 

Callate

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uanime5 said:
Most likely they didn't consult females because they were targeting a male audience. Seriously if 90% of the people who play this genre are male then getting feedback from female gamers is likely to make your product worse as it won't be as focused on your core audience.

I don't know what sort of changes you'd need to make to Call of Duty to make it as popular with girls as Angry Birds but these changes will probably be hated by the people who like Call of Duty because it will radically alter this game.
It's not a zero-sum game. You don't necessarily lose a male audience by gaining a female one. Actually, the tendency to pick a choice based on what you believe your peer group would approve makes it at least as likely that a product's designers taking a broader perspective will open up the possibility of introducing elements that one type of audience would enjoy, even if they aren't currently aware that they would enjoy those things because they're limiting their consumption to what their peer group enjoys. Thirty years ago, people were still making jokes along the lines of "We had sushi back where we came from; course, we called it 'bait', hyuk hyuk." Now you can find sushi restaurants hundreds of miles from the water because people discovered, hey, this "sushi" thing could actually be pretty tasty.

It isn't some either-or dichotomy with Angry Birds and long talks about feelings on one side and Call of Duty and grunting about trucks on the other. It's possible to make games that appeal to a wider audience without diluting or disparaging things that appeal to a "core" audience. But first, things like focus testing have to be judged with a caution and thought and not simply perceived to be hard data that plots an unquestionable course to the motherload.

"The Last of Us" is already seen as having taken a significant risk in including a female character who is vital not just to the story-line but to the game play. But having taken that risk, to fail to consider the possibility that the game could appeal to both a male and female audience would just be short-sighted, even from a strictly business-oriented point of view.
 

Metalrocks

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true. even games that are average at least, you still can tell more or less if the developers put some effort in to it. this impression remember me gives me and im sure i will enjoy the game one way or another.
yes, RE6 is not a RE game anymore but as a shooter its actually still entertaining.
 

Redd the Sock

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First off, I appreciate that just about every commentator on the games industry sees lack of AAA innovation as the most serious issue at hand, but this is just getting fucking repetitive. I get it. They get it. What we don't have is a solution that doesn't put their companies in immediate financial risk.

I'm honestly amazed that focus groups are still relevant int he internet age. A well place forum question can get you all the info you need and more ideas than you could implement. Proper usage comes down to the right questions: more "what you we like to see" and less "what games to you like" taking into account that some people lie, and others may have had every intention of using said feature or buying said game, but when it's a big month, sometimes you just buy Skyrim like everyone else. On our end, we need to be reasonable. Gamers want everything to be a mega epic quest with all the trimmings, but that gets expensive so it isn't a surprise they want to market to a game to the demographic they know won't ask for much. Similarly, if all we bring to the table is lists of things we don't like instead of a few new ideas, we can the "impossible to please" label and get ignored.

But then, as others have said, innovation is more a buzz word than something we truly want. There's a lot of indy games to sate the thirst for something new, but somehow that $5 is too big a risk on a new game, even though we spend more than that for burgers made of pink slime and grease.So many metrics go back to companies through achievements, trophies and digital buying systems, that they probably have a better idea of what we'll buy than we do as we claim to want something new, but play the umpteenth sequel, or the COD clone.

And just for the record, I hate coffee. I don't even really like coffee flavored things.
 

likalaruku

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Needs at least half of cup of 1/2 & 1/2 & half a packet of Sweet'n'Low, & that's only if I'm not in the mood for one of a billion different flavored creamers. I bore with flavors quickly so I rotate them. If the coffee-to-flavor ration is imbalanced by being too sweet or too diluted, I'll dump it out & start with a fresh cup.

You could say I like my games the same way.

Am I the only one who adds cream until the coffee is the exact same color as my skin?
 

mbarker

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It's a classic case of the snake eating its own tail. Its not that focus groups are bad or inefficient and stupid. The biggest problem is that the publishers have already told everyone on the focus group what they want and they are just paroting that. Using a small group of profesionals to judge and anylize a problem is a common method used in statistics, of course these views are usually kept unbiased.

The only real solution to using a focus group is to get one that is completely untainted by industry nonsense and the only way to get one of those is to wait till the industry realizes that it needs to change.
 

lastjustice

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Yes Thank God for you Mr Sterling. I almost have to doubt many of the game industry actually watch this show or take any of it on face value or you'd see someone else trying make sense of it all.

They want to make check list of what I want here we go...

- Make me a pile of damn Good Jrpgs....remember back in the PS1 and PS2 you couldn't walk down a game aisle and not almost trip over them. They re on the verge of extinction nowdays. Square has become the emperor with no clothes as they don't seem remember how make games that you actually can play. (I've been recently replaying Chrono trigger, Final fantasy 1,4 and 6 on GBA looking back like how far the mighty have fallen.) and Suikoden never seemed to get a big enough following in the states to keep making them. I'd like some turn based, some actiony ones, and some strategy based ones. Give me a ton of different ones with whatever crazy ideas you want to add. Go nuts, just start making them again. I'm tired of them being banished to Handhelds and DLC. Someone out there make them in earnest. This is a corner of the market greatly under served.

- Games I can play co op with people in the same room. Yes we have the internet and who wants to share a split screen right....wrong. I miss the days of playing 4 player multiplayer in the same room. Tearing thru waves of bad guys in an action game with my brother. Alot of games seem to not want to make the co op local. (which I hated about War for Cybertron.)Wii seems be the only system that still tried give us that experience. PS3 and Xbox 360 have dried up this well for most part.


I'm sure I can add more, but these are things Id like to see more of in the future.
 

kburns10

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Sep 10, 2012
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Never saw that original trailer for Fuse. The cartoon look was really cool and reminded me of Team Fortress 2. I would have much rather played that than what they ended up releasing!
 

JohnnyDelRay

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Maybe I'm a total ignoramus (rhetorical question ok, shutup) but I thought people answer anonymous surveys and provide statistical results more truthfully than they otherwise would when speaking to their buddies/colleagues/partners or whomever? In any case, this proves to be very different, or maybe that's because we are on forums. So I can think of 2 different scenarios going on here, in the case of GAMES, because that's what Jim's explanation refers to:

A) Gamers are simply providing superficial results to the focus groups, because they don't go parallel with what gamers are actually buying; they say they want innovation but in fact continue to buy the big franchises as quick as they can be released.

B) Gamers are providing truthful results, and would go more in-line with what we read on forums, but they just continue buying the stuff that comes out anyways, because of....other reasons? The higher quality, better graphics, what? And don't tell me "customer service"
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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JohnnyDelRay said:
Maybe I'm a total ignoramus (rhetorical question ok, shutup) but I thought people answer anonymous surveys and provide statistical results more truthfully than they otherwise would when speaking to their buddies/colleagues/partners or whomever? In any case, this proves to be very different, or maybe that's because we are on forums. So I can think of 2 different scenarios going on here, in the case of GAMES, because that's what Jim's explanation refers to:

A) Gamers are simply providing superficial results to the focus groups, because they don't go parallel with what gamers are actually buying; they say they want innovation but in fact continue to buy the big franchises as quick as they can be released.

B) Gamers are providing truthful results, and would go more in-line with what we read on forums, but they just continue buying the stuff that comes out anyways, because of....other reasons? The higher quality, better graphics, what? And don't tell me "customer service"
Focus Groups aren't surveys, they are where you get a 'random' sample of potential clients/customers stick them in a room and show them the product, all the while allowing them to chatter amongst themselves.

There is a little more to it but that is the gist of it.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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Ed130 said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
Maybe I'm a total ignoramus (rhetorical question ok, shutup) but I thought people answer anonymous surveys and provide statistical results more truthfully than they otherwise would when speaking to their buddies/colleagues/partners or whomever? In any case, this proves to be very different, or maybe that's because we are on forums. So I can think of 2 different scenarios going on here, in the case of GAMES, because that's what Jim's explanation refers to:

A) Gamers are simply providing superficial results to the focus groups, because they don't go parallel with what gamers are actually buying; they say they want innovation but in fact continue to buy the big franchises as quick as they can be released.

B) Gamers are providing truthful results, and would go more in-line with what we read on forums, but they just continue buying the stuff that comes out anyways, because of....other reasons? The higher quality, better graphics, what? And don't tell me "customer service"
Focus Groups aren't surveys, they are where you get a 'random' sample of potential clients/customers stick them in a room and show them the product, all the while allowing them to chatter amongst themselves.

There is a little more to it but that is the gist of it.
Thanks for the heads up! I guess I should have read a bit more about what a focus group is before posting (no sarcasm! Honestly I thought it was more of a survey as well).

But now that I have had a quick glance at wiki-P, my comments are still kinda the same, only now, there's even less of a sense of anonymity, because you are actually talking to people about it and giving feedback, even if it's with total strangers.
 

Korolev

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Jul 4, 2008
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If you have your coffee club meetings in that shack.... that must be a pretty grim coffee club.
 

IronMit

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daxterx2005 said:
I've honestly never heard of "New Coke"
It's a 1985-1992 thing.
It might not of been a failure - coke eventually re-released classic coke and everyone went wild.
people think it was a publicity stunt
 

Toxic Sniper

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...Is "black fine roast" drip? I'm not a coffee connoisseur.

I like drip coffee, but that's mainly because it's so strong tasting that it actually wakes me up on the late nights or early mornings I need coffee.
 

Gunner 51

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I think there are a few reasons why publishers don't listen to you, Jim. I should warn you that you're not going to like them.

1.) Let's start off with you - your attitude is off-putting to say the least - especially to genteel boardroom types. They don't want to see or hear some guy with an ego the size of Jupiter mouthing off and hurling abuse at them like some sort of anti-EA strawman.

I know that your ego is part of your schtick, but if you truly wanted boardroom types to listen to you - ditch the ego and replace it with maturity. I'm not telling you to become a corporate brown-noser like those in IGN (screw those guys) - but be a little more mature in future.

2.) Publishers won't listen to you or anyone because some of them are still making profits and have since adopted an "I'm OK, Jack" attitude. Until they are all in complete freefall, no-one will truly get listened to. However, with the X-box One about to tank - this may be a situatation that remedies itself.

3.) The Frat-boys, CoD Bros, CoD Kids and Console Peasants or whatever derisive name everyone here calls them are still the backbone of gaming. They're the ones who buy most of the games or at least have games bought for them - those who like a little imagination, story and a little context put into the games like us - are sadly the minority.

Remember those days when gamers wanted to share their hobby with everyone and for more people to become gamers? It'd seem some financial djinni were listening and have since granted that wish. Like you, I will lament the fact that games are no longer the art they once were but are turning into business products. I can only hope that this mythical crash will come soon and purge the money-men out of gaming.