Thanks for proving my point, Jim's point and most peoples point. Its fascist assholes like you why this thread exists. Maybe you should get a life then you wouldnt need gaming to find a sense of accomplishment. Life is a very challenging game, you really should try it instead of trolling.JustanotherGamer said:
Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
You haven't proven anything, and neither has Jim or any of these pro easy mode people here, except that showing that all of you have no clue whatsoever what you are even talking about, most of all showing a complete lack of any actual understanding of the issue here. You are just dismissing all the No easy moders out of hand as "fascist assholes" that need to get a life, as if yours was actually any better, and last you cover up your own trolling by calling others here trollers. This blatant dismissal of the problem the no easy moders have with putting in an easy mode to the Soul series let alone any attempts to understand it is the reason this thread and video itself exists. You aren't just missing the forest for the trees you aren't even willing to admit the trees are there, even as you stubbornly run straight into them.VampLena said:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that what you just said was just a unthinking furious outburst from you, still a dick move regardless.
You didn't miss anything, Jim himself just missed the entire problem so he could make yet another video about how gamers are just whining about a nothing issue, despite the fact that it ISN'T a nothing issue, but that doesn't matter to him since he doesn't care if the people complaining about the problem have a valid point, but about making a video with as much views as possible. I actually agree with Jim a lot of the time, but I never agree with him when he doesn't even try to understand the problem and calls everyone that complains about it just a bunch of whiny idiots, especially with nothing valid to back it up like he did with this one.FriedRicer said:
I can't remember having 1000 post long threads about easy-mode back when Demon's Souls was released or back when Dark Souls was released. People who didn't like that simply didn't buy it. Has worked out great for you, hasn't it? Now the developers are thinking about attracting a wider audience because they see potential for more sales.chikusho said:
Gamers are not very good at doing boycotts:chikusho said:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/kotaku/2009/11/1258035395841.jpg
Would you seriously not buy a Dark Souls with an easy-mode when everything else stays exactly the same? Doubt it. Jim also had a while back a video on why boycotts are not such a good idea, also worth a watch.
So why exactly can't all that learning happen in an easy-mode before people move on to normal-mode? Why is it for you ok to have an training mode before going to NewGame+, but not ok for others to have a slightly less difficult training mode?
I am referring to the fact that the game does not have very good checkpoints and forces you to replay large sections over and over again.
Publishers see that a little different.
They have with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. That's why the publisher now wants the game to be easier. As already said a few times: Not buying the game is not a solution, that's the very thing causing the problems you complain about.JustanotherGamer said:
Yes, the publisher is changing things in the hope to sell more copies, but I think that's a rather poor standard of "enough". That's the publisher being a greedy asshole, especially since the Souls series has been doing remarkably and all of Namco Bandai's other new IPs have been failing.grumbel said:
No, publisher's complete lack of ability to think long term is the problem. A publisher should be trying to cultivate and keep a strong and loyal fanbase that will consistently and reliably give them sales, and thus a much greater profit over the long term like hardcores than trying to cater to as unstable and unreliable short term gains as the casual market.grumbel said:
Thanks for clearing that up.It seems that Jim can't decide when a game should be protected by artistic merit or changed for profit like a product.I hope the Souls series stays away from a "proper" tutorial.It would ruin the games sense of experimentation/exploration and uniquely intended approach at created its varied difficulty.To give a player access to many mechanics at the beginning,and the more of them you mix/match-use the easier the experience.It is an approach that expresses ones own interest in NOT DYING.The thing they told you to prepare to do.It feels entirely canon to see the bloodstains of other peoples failures and hear the ringing of the bells-success.Or to have a more observant player give you a message of a hidden path.A change in this-and Souls becomes less of itself.immortalfrieza said:
Exactly, but good luck getting any of the pro-easy moders here to admit it, I've been trying for quite some time now. Jim seems to just be trying to make videos that royally piss a lot of people off so he can get views, he's basically the troll of the escapist video contributors, and much of the time he's correct despite that, but definitely not this time. He couldn't be any more wrong if he tried in fact.FriedRicer said:
Because Demon's Souls was a niche hit that was hardly advertised, and became a success largely due to word of mouth and hype generated within the niche group that enjoyed it. Due to that success, more people were anticipating Dark Souls and it was more heavily advertised. When more people became aware of the games existence there were more people to complain about the game not being accessible to them, many without even giving it a go.grumbel said:
The problem is that a simple "easy mode" wouldn't fix the issues that people are complaining about with Dark Souls difficulty, so allocating resources into rebalancing the entire game into being more accessible would ruin the core philosophy that made Demons and Dark Souls into the successes that they have become.
Simply changing monster health and damage would not create an experience that the people asking for an Easy mode would just suddenly enjoy. Also, labeling such a mode as an "easy" mode would be a dishonest trick to get more people interested in buying, which in turn could lead to bad publicity.
Boycotting isn't the only issue. If the next game is designed with a different goal in mind, less hype and activity within the community will be generated, and this in turn will lead to less people being interested in picking up the game.grumbel said:
And, no, if the next entry is lacking fundamental parts of the experience of previous games, there would be nothing attracting me to spend time and money in that world.
I didn't buy Condemned 2 because they tried to make it into a supernatural combo driven action brawler, I didn't buy Dawn of War 2 because they removed base building and many defensive aspects from DoW1 and I didn't buy Red Faction: Armaggeddon because it removed the open world aspect and destruction parts that made Guerilla a sleeper hit. Remove core mechanics and make the experience less enjoyable and naturally I won't be interested.
Also, there's a difference. CoD is mostly about the competetive aspect, responsive gameplay and military setting, and you can have all of that without dedicated servers.
Because the normal mode is designed to force you into being good enough at the game to finish it. If you want a training mode, you can always use a strategy guide or ask for advice on forums if you can't figure things out in the game. There's however no reason for the developer to encourage you to do so if the core experience is to remain intact.grumbel said:
The game has excellent checkpoints. The kind you have to search for and find yourself, and the kind where you trade some progress for having a safe haven. And the kind where you unlock shortcuts to save progress in an area. If there was no need for you to replay large sections, there would be nothing threatening and no sense of loss when dying, no sense of relief and safety when finding a bonfire and a much lessened sense of accomplishment when getting through a difficult area.grumbel said:
This is what game design is all about, you want to invoke an experience for the player by making decisions around how you interact with the game.
Then, let's hope the publishers let the people who made the game a success will get to do their jobs at least one more time before they start watering down the franchise.grumbel said:
It wouldn't make the game accessible for FarmVille players, but it would open up the game to most regular gamers.chikusho said:
Nobody is talking about removing parts, just adding some.
I don't understand that logic. How is easy-mode the root of all evil, but a walkthrough is totally ok, even so it spoils the very essence of the game, the "figuring stuff out" part, which an easy-mode would not?
Can't comment on Dark Souls, but Demon's Souls definitely did not.
That's a pointless way to stretch the game for a lot of people. If you like it, fine, but I don't see a reason to force it on everybody. For me having to replay section is the very thing that destroys immersion, it pulls me out of the moment and highlights how mechanical and repetitive a game is.
No, simply changing enemy health and damage wouldn't open the game up to most regular gamers. It would simply lessen one aspect to be cautious about in a game where caution is everything, possibly making you underestimate the mechanics you need to be wary of in order to make progress. If you want dark souls to be easier, changing enemy health stats will do nothing for you and the game will still be inaccessible. Why waste development resources adding a pointless mode that doesn't improve the game for anyone?grumbel said:
Removing difficulty that is inherent to the design and splitting up large parts of the online aspect is a problem.grumbel said:
I've never said that developers should include walkthroughs into the game. Those will pop up online as they do for every game though. If you find Dark Souls to be so impenetrable, you can make the extra effort and learn the things you need from outside sources.grumbel said:
Also, there's the part where you share discoveries and experiences with friends and other players. The more obscure an item and rulesets hidden within the game, the more fun it is to test and figure things out within a community of your choice. This is another thing that extends the life of the game that clear explanations and accessible design would completely eliminate.
It's not pointless in the slightest. If all you want to do is see the environments and mess with some of the enemies and equipment, I'm pretty sure you can find a modding community that would be able to provide that.grumbel said:
Either way you look at it, demanding that developers adding in a "Skip the experience we have worked for years to create"-mode is not only a waste of effort and resources, but also kind of insulting.
Don't appreciate or agree with what they've created? That's fine, maybe it's just not for you.
Yes, From Software and Namco Bandai are businesses. Businesses pursue profit and want to maximize profits. But they were already doing that.
From Software tapped into a market and a niche that no one really expected and it was a huge success, especially considering Dark Souls and Demon's Souls are very low budget compared to most other big name games out there.
A lot of shooters have come out trying to be the next Call of Duty. A lot of them have just outright failed and the ones that haven't like Battlefield were already established big name games. Copying what is more popular doesn't guarantee increased profits especially when something else already dominates that market.
The amount of resources and marketing to create something as popular as Skyrim is overwhelming. The simple fact is that like Call of Duty for the online FPS genre, they've mostly established a stranglehold on that genre. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls managed to do very well regardless because while they're both "Action RPG' games, they cater to very very different tastes and extremely different markets.
Look at the Metroid series. It's a popular series, yes but they aren't mega successes like the Super Mario series and Legend of Zelda. Metroid still managed to tap into their own unique market and is still a successful series. Metroid Prime 3 was a lot more "accessible" than Metroid Prime 1. It's more linear. All of the major zones are separated from each other, they aren't interconnected like they used to be. There was a greater focus on combat and action over exploration. And yet despite this Metroid Prime 1 outsold Metroid Prime 3 by nearly twice as much.
Dark Souls and Demon's Souls tapped into a new miche market, and one shown to be very profitable. Just from a business point of view, it's risky and foolish to throw that away for the sake of being more mainstream.
From Software tapped into a market and a niche that no one really expected and it was a huge success, especially considering Dark Souls and Demon's Souls are very low budget compared to most other big name games out there.
A lot of shooters have come out trying to be the next Call of Duty. A lot of them have just outright failed and the ones that haven't like Battlefield were already established big name games. Copying what is more popular doesn't guarantee increased profits especially when something else already dominates that market.
The amount of resources and marketing to create something as popular as Skyrim is overwhelming. The simple fact is that like Call of Duty for the online FPS genre, they've mostly established a stranglehold on that genre. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls managed to do very well regardless because while they're both "Action RPG' games, they cater to very very different tastes and extremely different markets.
Look at the Metroid series. It's a popular series, yes but they aren't mega successes like the Super Mario series and Legend of Zelda. Metroid still managed to tap into their own unique market and is still a successful series. Metroid Prime 3 was a lot more "accessible" than Metroid Prime 1. It's more linear. All of the major zones are separated from each other, they aren't interconnected like they used to be. There was a greater focus on combat and action over exploration. And yet despite this Metroid Prime 1 outsold Metroid Prime 3 by nearly twice as much.
Dark Souls and Demon's Souls tapped into a new miche market, and one shown to be very profitable. Just from a business point of view, it's risky and foolish to throw that away for the sake of being more mainstream.
I remember that one idiot said that in Starcraft 2, custom games were for people who can't handle the actual Starcraft 2. I think that the actual rts's have a lot of bs work. I liked playing Warcraft 3 until I discovered that you have to micromanage everything. Micromanaging has almost nothing to do with outsmarting your opponent and creating crafty and innovative strategies. Micromanaging prevented me from enjoying the game. It makes me cringe when someone says that micromanaging is part of the genre.
"Prepare to die... unless you don't want to, in which case... Prepare for Easy mode" <--- Doesn't sound silly in the slightest does it. It's a tough road to walk though, while you don't want your favorite games to get dumbbed down you also want to get a sequel. That, i'm guessing is jim's stance on the issue. More people playing equals more money for your favorite franchises equals more of your favorite franchises. Sounds like good math, but one only needs to turn an eye to resident evil to see it's not that simple.
If dark souls "easy mode" generates more fans of the series, we're more likely to see a new dark souls. Now you have a new set of fans with their own special needs. This means Nether souls, is now going to have to be designed with easy mode in mind from the start to appeal to it's new fan base. Looking at megaman 9 and 10, the easy mode added to 10 because 9 was too hard kinda diminished the overall experience for some gamers.
This industry is however, a Business with an A number 1 goal of making money. Your not going to be able to change that fact, so this issue is kinda irreverent. Whatever they need to do to get more money, it shall be done. So anyone complaining about the retarding of our games needs to can it. Eat your wallpaper paste or get out of the way for someone who will.
If dark souls "easy mode" generates more fans of the series, we're more likely to see a new dark souls. Now you have a new set of fans with their own special needs. This means Nether souls, is now going to have to be designed with easy mode in mind from the start to appeal to it's new fan base. Looking at megaman 9 and 10, the easy mode added to 10 because 9 was too hard kinda diminished the overall experience for some gamers.
This industry is however, a Business with an A number 1 goal of making money. Your not going to be able to change that fact, so this issue is kinda irreverent. Whatever they need to do to get more money, it shall be done. So anyone complaining about the retarding of our games needs to can it. Eat your wallpaper paste or get out of the way for someone who will.