Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

ms_sunlight

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GunsmithKitten said:
Smeatza said:
Surely everyone realises that fake nerd guys get the piss taken out of them by "real" nerds as well.
.
Noone here with any kind of dealings in either the tabletop or video game sub culture will deny that. I sure as heck don't.

The point is that, lately, I've been having my card checked soley on the basis of being female, NOT whether or not I prefer 4.0 over 3.5, not over which MST3k host I prefer, not which religious parallel's were made in the first Silent Hill, ect...
Exactly. Men are assumed to be legitimate and on the level until they slip up. Women are often assumed to be fakes until they prove otherwise. There's no presumtion of good faith. Some guys will subject women to an inquisition until they slip on anything that the guys can then pounce on to "prove" she's a fake. This is in the context of a general miasma where men seem to think they are the "real victims" because boobs make them utterly powerless and other retrograde sexist shite and MRA influenced nonsense.

*seethe*
 

JarinArenos

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GunsmithKitten said:
The point is that, lately, I've been having my card checked soley on the basis of being female, NOT whether or not I prefer 4.0 over 3.5, not over which MST3k host I prefer, not which religious parallel's were made in the first Silent Hill, ect...
Yeah, this is a problem. If a guy is faulted for something not-real-gamer-ish (liking 4.0 over 3.5 or actually enjoying Battlefield 4), they just get at most a passing slight on their taste, and possibly intelligence. There's never any cries of being "fake" or the like.

HOWEVER
(here's where I try not to sound like a sexist douche while still disagreeing)

The issue here isn't really faking interest. It's how you act about it. From personal experience, I've known two different girls who were only into gaming for the attention they could get from it. How much they actually enjoyed the games themselves is actually entirely irrelevant to the discussion. They knew that these socially awkward nerd boys would fawn all over the girl in their midst, and they just loved the attention. This often included soliciting gifts and random favors from the "losers" who were apparently just grateful for a halfway-attractive girl deigning to notice they existed.

This is not being a gamer, this is emotional manipulation. Whether they're a "fake" gamer or not is entirely irrelevant to the manipulation aspect.

Now, to be fair, this highlights a problem with the MALES in the culture, as well. They needed to grow up and not be acting that way in the first place. These girls were just happy to exploit their lack of social ability.

TL/DR
Judge gamer girls by how they act, just like anyone else; not by how much you think/don't-think they know about a subject matter.
Edit: Protip, if they're licking an Xbox controller provocatively for anything other than total mocking irony, there might be something worth questioning...

------
Edit2: I should clarify before I get strung up. Making some assumption of being "fake" just because an attractive girl happens to claim to like games, without any other evidence, is wrong and assholeish. And hell, even the best of us enjoy attention. I am ONLY speaking of the rare occurance when someone is intentionally manipulating others and exploiting their lack of social interaction. Especially in a culture very heavy in light mental/social disorders that exacerbate inherent social ineptness. And this is not something you can judge on sight, it's something observed over time.

The reason this is a gender issue is that there's no situation that I am aware of where this can happen with guys. Unless there's some culture out there heavily populated by socially-awkward girls where the occasional guy can show inter-

Nevermind. It's gender-swapped high school art class. o.o (Incidentally, those guys were jackasses too, so I stand by my dislike of girls who do this sort of thing)
 

Astro

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ms_sunlight said:
GunsmithKitten said:
Smeatza said:
Surely everyone realises that fake nerd guys get the piss taken out of them by "real" nerds as well.
.
Noone here with any kind of dealings in either the tabletop or video game sub culture will deny that. I sure as heck don't.

The point is that, lately, I've been having my card checked soley on the basis of being female, NOT whether or not I prefer 4.0 over 3.5, not over which MST3k host I prefer, not which religious parallel's were made in the first Silent Hill, ect...
Exactly. Men are assumed to be legitimate and on the level until they slip up. Women are often assumed to be fakes until they prove otherwise. There's no presumtion of good faith. Some guys will subject women to an inquisition until they slip on anything that the guys can then pounce on to "prove" she's a fake. This is in the context of a general miasma where men seem to think they are the "real victims" because boobs make them utterly powerless and other retrograde sexist shite and MRA influenced nonsense.

*seethe*
Women aren't assumed to be fakes, most people are just cautious about deciding whether they think they're legitimate or not whereas they aren't for men. No-one ever says they're 'utterly powerless' because they're attracted to women, they're just aware that they are attracted to women and some women will actively seek to exploit that. Fake nerd girls wouldn't exist if acting like one wasn't effective, and I don't think anyone likes being exploited.

You're creating a false antagonist.
 

SweetLiquidSnake

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I know girls that fake interest in shit they don't care about for the sake of pleasing a man. They're called strippers.
 

JarinArenos

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SweetLiquidSnake said:
I know girls that fake interest in shit they don't care about for the sake of pleasing a man. They're called strippers.
And they're quite open about getting paid for it. Likewise, the issue of "booth babes" is separate from this one. They're doing a job; blame the person writing checks if you don't like it.
 

AngloDoom

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SweetLiquidSnake said:
I know girls that fake interest in shit they don't care about for the sake of pleasing a man. They're called strippers.
I've pretended to like football to continue a conversation with a man I liked, I never realised until now that I was a stripper.
I've also faked an orgasm - sometimes it's just polite to fake interest, non?

OT:

Personally, I just think this is the result of the whole 'geek culture' thing springing into popularity. People have accused me of swapping from contact-lenses to glasses in recent years because I'm trying to keep up with fashion.

I am. What of it? I think it looks nice, it makes people give me compliments and it makes everyone think I'm about twice as capable as when I had contact-lenses. I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.
 

JarinArenos

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AngloDoom said:
Personally, I just think this is the result of the whole 'geek culture' thing springing into popularity. People have accused me of swapping from contact-lenses to glasses in recent years because I'm trying to keep up with fashion.

I am. What of it? I think it looks nice, it makes people give me compliments and it makes everyone think I'm about twice as capable as when I had contact-lenses. I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.
Nothing wrong with this sort of thing. It's really a matter of intent and degree, which is why I say it's not something you can ever make immediate accusations about. Likewise, that one guy in art class surrounded by all the girls probably is interested in the art as much as the company. I use this example deliberately. I was that one guy in art class in college, and yes it got me some attention, and yes it felt nice. However, I never tried to manipulate any of the girls into anything more than conversation. I wasn't there for them, I was there to learn how to draw.

Really, though, I'm not referencing a stereotype people aren't familiar with, am I? We all knew that jackass who just took Art and Home Ec to sleeze girls into the sack, right?
 

AngloDoom

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JarinArenos said:
AngloDoom said:
Personally, I just think this is the result of the whole 'geek culture' thing springing into popularity. People have accused me of swapping from contact-lenses to glasses in recent years because I'm trying to keep up with fashion.

I am. What of it? I think it looks nice, it makes people give me compliments and it makes everyone think I'm about twice as capable as when I had contact-lenses. I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.
Nothing wrong with this sort of thing. It's really a matter of intent and degree, which is why I say it's not something you can ever make immediate accusations about. Likewise, that one guy in art class surrounded by all the girls probably is interested in the art as much as the company. I use this example deliberately. I was that one guy in art class in college, and yes it got me some attention, and yes it felt nice. However, I never tried to manipulate any of the girls into anything more than conversation. I wasn't there for them, I was there to learn how to draw.

Really, though, I'm not referencing a stereotype people aren't familiar with, am I? We all knew that jackass who just took art and home ec to sleeze girls into the sack, right?
But that sort of implies the reason that these guys are railing against women 'pretending' to like games is because these women want to manipulate these men into sleeping with them.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.
 

JarinArenos

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AngloDoom said:
But that sort of implies the reason that these guys are railing against women 'pretending' to like games is because these women want to manipulate these men into sleeping with them.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.
Kinda missing the point, I think. Emotional manipulation is emotional manipulation.
 

Toy Master Typhus

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Has anyone posted yet on the irony of The Escapist yet? About the fact most people who don't believe you should be offended about the fact a person (in this case female) fakes information you care about unless she is an attractive booth babe.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here with wild assertions. First of all to the person above it isn't about her wanting to sleep with you. The entire fake nerd girl sparked from the social event of a person inserting themselves into a conversation by using bullshit or fake information that made them sound like a dumbass. It was then associated with the stereotype of females who when the conversation strayed off into pop culture they didn't know or didn't care to know that they would precede to say something stupid and be shunned for it.

It really is no different then when someone says something stupid on the internet and we probe them for sources, or disregard them as a moron.
 

Astro

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GunsmithKitten said:
Astro said:
Women aren't assumed to be fakes
Did you not read the near three page crapstorm in this thread?
I didn't, and I don't think I need to. I'm speaking broadly, like the post I replied to, and not about one or two people spouting quantifiable shit that no-one is convinced by.
 

Something Amyss

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AngloDoom said:
I've also faked an orgasm - sometimes it's just polite to fake interest, non?
*rimshot*

I really don't see what everyone's problem is with trying to fit in - we all do it and it's fun to do it.
You know, you just went from snarking at a generalisation about you being a stripper to making a generalisation about trying to fit in.

I'm pretty sure I don't. I also don't try not to fit in, because I'm not into counter-culture any more than culture.

I also don't think it's fun to try and fit in. Ask your average closeted homosexual or transsexual how they feel.

AngloDoom said:
Call me a pessimist, but I don't really think that most of these men would be doing this if they genuinely thought the woman involved wanted to sleep with them.
Probably true.

JarinArenos said:
Really, though, I'm not referencing a stereotype people aren't familiar with, am I? We all knew that jackass who just took Art and Home Ec to sleeze girls into the sack, right?
We do?

Toy Master Typhus said:
Has anyone posted yet on the irony of The Escapist yet? About the fact most people who don't believe you should be offended about the fact a person (in this case female) fakes information you care about unless she is an attractive booth babe.
You mean the site where people can (and do) frequently say they don't care about booth babes unless we're talking about getting rid of them, then suddenly it's a nightmare? The site where people frequently espouse those views within sentences of one another?

I'm not sure this is ironic enough to even be a blip on my Escapdar.

It really is no different then when someone says something stupid on the internet and we probe them for sources, or disregard them as a moron.
Except it's largely a default assumption when people see a girl showing nerd interest at all. After all, what female would EVER lower themselves to geek culture without an ulterior motive?

This is indicative of a larger problem--a rather deep-seated mistrust and possibly even hatred towards women. Nerd culture is very territorial, and doubly so when it comes to teh wimminz. Possibly more than double.

Not every issue comes down to misogyny, but when it comes to double standards in a culture known for suspicion of women, yeah, it kinda does here.
 

Astro

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Considering the different dynamics men and women have when interacting with each other, not having the exact same standards, expectations and assumptions of either gender doesn't mean it's totally unjustified and born out of petty hatred. Men and women are different, they're treated differently, and you react to them differently. Chalking something uniquely disadvantageous up to an irrational hatred of women (or men) is a cheap and easy answer.
 

Rheinmetall

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I believe that fake nerd girls exist only in the context of games advertisment and games marketing in general. I don't think I have ever met an ordinary female gamer in real life, not even a faker I would say.
 

jmarquiso

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Haefulz said:
jmarquiso said:
getoffmycloud said:
The only issue I can think off is these people is they do exist are likely to be the same kind of people who 10 years ago would have bullied someone for liking games so I can see the problem there.
People who at one point would not like a thing, than ten years later do? That's what people call progress.
It's tough for the old fans to swallow though. I understand the frustration. My friend was a huge fan of all the superhero comics and cartoons when he was a kid, and he got ridiculed in school for it. Now everyone that was making fun of him is watching the new Marvel movies and he's seeing them claim to be "huge fans of Marvel!" There's nothing really wrong with the person changing and enjoying superheros now, but from my friend's perspective, I'm sure it's tough to swallow.
I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't.

I got ridiculed, too. I dealt with the jocks and the guys who actually had lives. We set up a LAN party in the computer lab in our library, us nerds and gamers. We had our own sanctuary.

And then I got ridiculed on both sides. There was a pretty elitist gamer group at my high school, you had to work hard to get in that club. I made it briefly. So did a friend of mine. A friend of mine who got nabbed for credit card fraud because he WAS THAT DESPERATE to get the latest PC (Pentium at that). The gamer elitism was THAT bad. If you didn't have it, you were thrashed by our "friends". I got out, I couldn't abide by it*. I was ashamed of my hobby for years - though I continued to play. It was THEM worse than the ones that made fun of me for it. So this kind of talk sickens me.

No, I don't own a console, my PC is medium powered, I buy the games I like, and rarely pre-order. I love discussing games online, especially in a cultural or artistic sense. What's happening here is that Library on a larger scale. Our hobby is getting popular, and they're all invading our space. Instead of celebrating that others are recognizing the merit or potential gaming could have, we decry it for a loss of authenticity. You know what I suffered for? I suffered for that to HAPPEN.

*No, I'm not blaming my friend's credit card fraud on this club, I'm just stating how extreme it was. I didn't back that either.
 

Orekoya

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Rheinmetall said:
I believe that fake nerd girls exist only in the context of games advertisment and games marketing in general. I don't think I have ever met an ordinary female gamer in real life, not even a faker I would say.
Meh, even that rings hollow, I mean if they truly did not care about video games why would they be doing this as a job. I don't see how putting up with mealy-mouthed jack-offs that constantly treat them with open belligerence could be born from anything other than a labor of love.
 

Aardvaarkman

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acosn said:
We're talking about the ads that are obviously half baked because it features four women apparently having the time of their lives playing a console that isn't even plugged in. Or the woman proclaiming that she is such a nerd for having logged two hours of actual game time in the last month.
That may be what you were talking about, but it wasn't what Jim was talking about and a lot of others here were talking about. A lot of discussion has baan about females getting harassed at conventions and whatnot, and being given the third degree over their nerd "credentials."

acosn said:
And yes, the term does mean to an extent, that you are a social out cast. That's the cut between simply being smart or bright, and being a nerd. Generally the term "nerd" is associated with people who are so entirely devoted to their hobby, interest, what have you, that they'll neglect eating, social lives, and even person hygiene.
I disagree. What makes your definition of "nerd" the only valid one? Also, people change - somebody who was a socially awkward and unattractive nerd in high school might mature into somebody who isn't. Lots of kids are awkward-looking as teens, but then grow into good-looking people. Does it mean they suddenly stop being a nerd once they have developed socially or physically? The very idea of reclaiming the word "nerd" is that it doesn't have to mean you are a social loner anymore.

And the idea it is about the neglect of hygiene is ridiculous. Just look at the classic nerds of the 50s and 60s who worked on things like the Apollo missions at NASA - they were extremely clean-cut and well groomed. Being able to shower and groom yourself does not in any way reduce your intelligence or obsessive interests. In fact, it can give you more energy to devote to them.