Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[Chemical Alia]

All this thread has succeeded in is making me hate nerds and nerd culture even more than I usually do.

Really? Because all your comment did was make me hate douchebags with premium membership more then i already did... So yeah, looks like the hatered is mutual.

The red name just showed up one day, wasn't something I asked for. Also not sure what that has to with anything I said or the topic itself. But yeah, all this talk of "fact checking" people not suspected of being real nerds and real gamers, and looking down on others who may not match your level of geekiness doesn't sit right with me. Though, maybe those 15-year-old girls really are harming me somehow and I really should care about what they take a passing interest in, If you have any compelling reasons to warn me about, I'm all ears. This could be really important!

 

[Yopaz]

Yeah sorry, those were really terrible anologies, I was half asleep and really hungry at the time so I don't doubt it haha.

Back on track though... The nintendo commercials generally go something like this

Spoiler: 2 commercials

or this

yeah, and WE'RE the ones pushing gaming stereotypes and trying to keep it a "boys only" club... *grumbles*

But yes, it's just really annoying... Personally, I do have standards to what is and is not a gamer, but they're really low... If all you do is play Sims/Farmville you're not a gamer, in the same way someone who can only play Hot Crossed Buns and Marry had a little lamb isn't a musician; and if you're dressed in costume... at least know who you are... The only time I have ever been PO'ed at a cosplayer was on halloween at high school my Jr. Year, I don't care how attractive you are, you're not "Green Mario" you're "Luigi"! It even says on the hat!

And thank you too for being reasonable, I'm used to getting flack for everything haha.

Now those were truly bad. It explains to me why people say Nintendo is losing touch with gamers if nothing else. Now taking a look at it and seeing how it could be improved in order to pass Nintendo off as a game company that's branching out it could change the last sentence to "I'm not just a gamer, I'm also a [blank]". Still the entire thing was horrible even without that part so it should cease to exist.

Also if your only game is Farmville then I wouldn't call them a gamer either, it's a game that makes farming less fun than reality. The Sims require some thought and planning, so I'll let that one slide. Also green Mario? That's weak. I would get annoyed at that too.

Now to find a way to drown out those commercials from my brain.

 

[Vault101]

Really? Because all your comment did was make me hate commentors with premium membership more then i already did... So yeah, looks like the hatered is mutual.

because having premium membership is relevant to any of this....how? might have to explain that one

or mabye I should just ignore what you say since you don't have premium membership and therefore arent a "real forum poster" /sarcasm

 

[Ishal]

I personally don't care if any girls want to be a part of the (whatever) culture we have, I love being around the opposite sex. But I would appreciate it if they are sincere. I don't think geek checking is something that should be done to people because you'll just come off as a rude twit. People don't like fake people anywhere, why would they be tolerated here anymore than any place else?

Of my own personal experience, I had a small group of friends that I played SWTOR with (yea i know..) and a few of them played warhammer/D&D and some played magic, so we'd all sometimes sit in the college lounge or the hallway between classes and shoot the shit about whatever nerdy thing we were doing. Some of us had friends outside that circle, some did not. Of the ones that did (myself included) had some pretty attractive female friends that would always mock us for talking about whatever nerdy thing was happening that day. Generally it didn't bother me or my other friend, but to some of them it did, and they even approached me about it personally saying they didn't want attention drawn to themselves to get made fun of and mocked. So I relented and shut up when they wanted me to. But a few times some of the girls (they happened to be the more attractive ones..so make of that what you will) actually said some really nasty things and even told us to take our (obviously beneath them) conversation somewhere else, this really rubbed me the wrong way so I put them in their place. This has been common in my experience with most females regarding gaming/nerd culture. Many dabble with CoD and Mario. Angry birds, mobile games, and classic arcade Nintendo stuff. But that is as far as they go. I've recently been in a server VOIP for my Guild Wars 2 realm for its open world PvP, and there are lots of different personalities there. It is predominantly guys, but there quite a few girls there too. But most of the girls don't seem like they are there to play serious PvP or PVE. Many are there being chatterboxes and trying to draw attention to themselves, the worst of which are drama firestarters that won't get muted or banned because some have sexy voices and in a channel full of 60 dudes and 2 or 3 girls, some guys are gonna want to hear that. If I bear any animosity toward women or fellow male gamers it is this, play the game for what it is and enjoy it. Don't use it as a tool or vehicle to achieve a different end like starting drama. Being a nerd/geek is very much steeped in enjoying something for the sake of itself and nothing else, it comes from deep immersion and giving yourself to a certain aspect of the culture and enjoying the hell out of it. It is much the same as sports in this way for sports nerds.

Not all women are drama seekers out to get attention, and I would be foolish to label them as such. Like anything else it is the few that spoil it for the many, and by reading this thread it seems there are many female gamers out there that would be an absolute JOY to play with. Anyone who wants to experience this wonderful aspect of technological culture I welcome you with open arms. Just please enjoy it for what it is, don't come here expecting to use it for some other means, especially if it is destructive.

PS. Most peoples ability/desire to delve so deeply into a culture might not be the same as your own, that said our gamer culture is still male dominated. That is why finding a woman like in this video should be considered a mythic/legendary accomplishment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx6BupgRmI

 

[theultimateend]

If the last 19 pages are what gaming "culture" is about, horrible elitism, mistrust, crass barely hidden misogyny, then maybe it's not worth saving at all from whatever imaginary threat it is facing. Let's burn it to the ground and salt the earth. Let people enjoy games like they enjoy movies or books. Let's stop pretending like we know what a REAL gamer or a REAL geek is. It's a pathetic attempt to reduce people around you and yourself to your hobbies.

I am marginally surprised it has gone this many pages.

Kind of seems like an open and shut case.

Anywho, color me surprised. Got on to see if I missed any videos and saw this as latest activity and was like "Really? No way..."

Odd stuff, odd stuff indeed.

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

I'm delighted to have someone to talk about my favorite things with, if they don't actually like what I like they get to suffer through my rants about how much I like it, if they do like it they'll enjoy the conversation, and if they don't like it but enjoy my prose they'll end up becoming a real fan.

Shit if someone came up to me in a bikini and wanted to talk about Prime numbers I'd be on board.

Well...after I got the OK from my better, otherwise I might take a boot to my prime number.

 

[Astro]

Actually, the reason why a lot of girls wear sexy costumes is because they like wearing sexy costumes. A person capable of self-reflection and not wanting to attract a certain type of attention would think "hhmm it appears my enormous breasts are about to explode out of my costume" or "maybe I'll cosplay a different more reasonable-looking character." Women aren't idiots and there are plenty of solid female characters despite what gaming media would have you believe.

Q.E.D

I never said women are dressing up just for me, in fact I elaborated on this very concept. Women dressing up like this are capturing male attention in general, not just my attention. Also, the reason why girls go for this demographic is because it's easy, lucrative and non-threatening. Why the hell wouldn't women seeking this kind of attention target this culture? And I explicitly stated multiple times that it's within anyone's rights if they want to dress up in a couple of bits of masking tape at a gaming convention, I've just said a person doing this is worthy of contempt.

So girls arnt allowed to cosplay any game character who happens to wear clothing, designed by dudes, that appears slutty without being an attention whore. There is NO way they can do one without the other. At all. So that girl has large boobs. I dont think we can change that, the moxxi girl btw, so what can she do? Is she forbidden from cosplay? Must she adhere to ONLY cosplaying women with the correct amount of clothing? She has the same body type as moxxi. Maybe she LIKES moxxi? Maybe she likes borderlands? I can play ANY dude i want in gaming. Any at all. Without judgement if my body type is the same as the dude im playing. Spartan or otherwise. But women just cannot cosplay a large section of it because the characters were designed too raunchy and that makes them forbidden. Stop being so gorram judgmental of people. Stop assuming that just because someone does X their reasoning MUST be Y. Unless you talk to a person you have no right to guess what their motivation may be.

So a woman learns about a character and forks over a lot of money for an accurate cosplay and THEN attends a LONG event which is also expensive JUST for "General male attention" while weathering the storm of judgement from people like you for daring to do so. Sorry no im not buying that this happens in anything but a minority if at all. Basically no one goes to this level of fakery.

Here is a fake nerd girl as i imagine one to be:

"I love games, RPGS are my favourite!"

"Oh me too!"

"Oh what ones do you like?"

"Erm...."

SO its a casual conversation where someone fakes knowledge of a subject to try and be accepted by the other person. That person isnt a "Fake nerd girl". They are a liar. There doesnt need to be a name for it. It happens in ALL hobbies by anyone who wants to fake something to get accepted. You cannot tell who these people are by looks. Ever. Not even slightly. Its a certain type of person who does this and it doesnt restrict itself to "Nerds" or "Girls" or anything. Its just liars. A simple title that needs nothing added to it.

Someone at a con who took significant time and effort to appear like a character as well as attend an ALL DAY event about gaming is NOT someone i will ever assume is there JUST or primarily for attention unless i speak to them and they, personally, tell me that its the reason they turned up. Im alright with judging someone for their actions. Im not ok assuming i know anything about a person by looking at them, especially when i narrow that focus only to only women. Im pretty heavily against slut shaming anyway. If a woman wants to look sexy thats not always for you OR men generally. If it offends you that people like looking nice because you assume its to "Manipulate the poor liddle mensies" try thinking that its for THEMSELVES rather than you.

And also how "Into" a character does a woman have to be before we accept that shes doing it because she likes the character rather than BECAUSE they have a slutty outfit? Ive wanted to cosplay characters i dont know THAT much about just because i look like them (Light Yagami even though i never finished deathnote to the end). Some characters i love so much id cosplay even if it was a "Slutty outfit" like Scott Pilgrim so power to people who love a character enough to not give a shit. I think fake nerd girls are a tiny minority. These are people who intentionally lie when its easy in casual conversation to appear knowledgeable. Whats far more common is people with varying levels of interest in games.

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

 

[Sylocat]

No one is geek checking 15 year old girls on the basis of gender, they are geek checking people who say they are geeks.

An with good reason. Lets say you and i are hypothetically talking about higher order mathematics, something we are both experts in & some random person comes up & says "hi, i totally know all about like maths & stuff, can i join in?"

If that person cannot tell me what a happy prime number is, then no they can't join our conversation, on the basis that nothing we say is going to be on there level. We've now got one of three choices.
1. Refuse this person access to our conversation, after checking there hypothetical credentials.
2. Let them in & talk about something else, something at a level this person can understand.
3. Keep on with our conversation, constantly being stopped by the third party to answer basic questions like "whats that number that comes after the number 8 again?"

The geek checking is done to assess the basic requirements for our conversation. Even more so, if this conversation is happening at a convention on higher order mathematics & the person who asked to enter our conversation shows up wearing a bikini & calling her self "Happy Prime Numbers."

Its not done out of malice, its done out of convenience for our conversation. That third party may really have an interest in higher order mathematics (while lacking any knowledge on the topic), that doesn't mean either you or i have some sort of obligation to teach this person in our time, or even to stop our conversation on the basis that this other person can't keep up.

Thats not elitist, its just not pandering to people who actually have no real interest or knowledge of what we are talking about. This is made even more true at a location like a convention. We geeks specifically go to higher order mathematics conventions to discus higher order mathematics, to listen to lectures on higher order mathematics & to have lively debates in the hotel bar with other people with an interest in higher order mathermatics.

Swap out higher order mathematics for prefered geeky time-sink & you've got the current situation.

So, I assume you also want to geek-check every male con-goer, right? And exclude every male geek who isn't as knowledgeable on every aspect of geek culture as you insist every woman must be? Or has the possibility never crossed your mind that such people could exist?

 

[themind]

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

How is it contemptible? Merely because it is provocative? Did the woman in question ACTUALLY DO anything to warrant that description, or is it you enforcing your bias on her outfit?

How do you know she is not indulging in a hobby? She may be a fan of the cosplay character, and alternately she may be a hobby of going to conventions.

You are arguing from a position that you know her motives, her sexualization, her inappropriateness... did you actually go have a conversation with the woman? Was she actually a dunce with no clue about the character she was playing? Did she go out of her way to attract the attention of males only?

I suspect the answer is no, you didn't speak to the woman, because she would know about Moxie, she could tell you about Borderlands, and she just may shatter your well constructed delusions about her.

Oh, the horror, when I go to comic cons and sci-fi cons in the year 2012 there are attractive Batgirls and Supergirls, sexy women who fill out sexy Star Trek uniforms, Princess Leia's, and a dead-ringer for #6 in Battlestar, oh the HORROR the young people face in the circle of geeks these days!!

I went to a comic con in 1989 in Buffalo. There wasn't an interested female within 25 miles of that venue. There wasn't even a REAL nerd girl, let alone a throng of them, along with the "fake" ones.

An attractive girl spends a pay cheque on a costume, gets an all access pass to the event, spends an entire weekend dressed up to meet people while getting sneered, jeered, and leered at by a pack of ungrateful pricks. DOESN'T LEAVE because of those pricks, and she is still considered a "fake".

If I could trade Comic Con 1989 for 2012, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and so would a ton of older nerd and geeks. You (not the quoted person specifically, but this generation of teenage male nerds) have hot women with an interest in your interests at your conventions. At or nearing your sexual peak, and you are COMPLAINING???

I am starting to sounds like my dad on this one, but I do not understand this generation.

 

[mechalynx]

No one is geek checking 15 year old girls....

*snip*

So, I assume you also want to geek-check every male con-goer, right? And exclude every male geek who isn't as knowledgeable on every aspect of geek culture as you insist every woman must be? Or has the possibility never crossed your mind that such people could exist?

I can't speak for Matthew, but no, I wouldn't geek check a guy OR a girl unless they came up and initiated the conversation with ME regarding the topic of gaming/sci-fi/comics/anything deemed nerdy by society.

Besides, I don't consider this geek checking, more like feeling out the level of knowledge and interest so that I can start a decent discussion without boring the other person to death; not to see the "geek street cred".

 

[Astro]

You keep missing my point. It doesn't matter what you think about a certain character, it's contemptible to be intentionally overly sexually provocative at a gaming convention - even if you really like Mad Moxxi. A person who does this isn't just indulging a hobby, they're purposefully assuming a role that's guaranteed to have men giving them a lot of sexual attention. If it were a pornographic convention it would be fine, but the people at gaming conventions are there because they like videogames, not because they want to be manipulated into being enamored by someone who isn't contributing anything of worth. I should also mention that a person who's in a scantily clad costume whose intention isn't to draw attention to themselves isn't necessarily contemptible, but they are a dunce and oblivious to their own blatantly inappropriate behavior.

I don't care how you feel about the rest of my position, and I'm not particularly interested in convincing you that women dressing in absurdly sexualized costumes at a focal point for an interest that is predominantly enjoyed by dorky males aren't doing it for attention.

Technically people can do a lot of things which other people don't like without any repercussions, but following that up with 'that must mean it's appropriate and it's ideal that they're allowed to do whatever they want within the confines of the law' is weepy bullshit. I don't care that you want to cosplay Mad Moxxi and you happen to have huge breasts, it's disruptive and inconsiderate if you choose to do so.

How is it contemptible? Merely because it is provocative? Did the woman in question ACTUALLY DO anything to warrant that description, or is it you enforcing your bias on her outfit?

How do you know she is not indulging in a hobby? She may be a fan of the cosplay character, and alternately she may be a hobby of going to conventions.

You are arguing from a position that you know her motives, her sexualization, her inappropriateness... did you actually go have a conversation with the woman? Was she actually a dunce with no clue about the character she was playing? Did she go out of her way to attract the attention of males only?

I suspect the answer is no, you didn't speak to the woman, because she would know about Moxie, she could tell you about Borderlands, and she just may shatter your well constructed delusions about her.

Oh, the horror, when I go to comic cons and sci-fi cons in the year 2012 there are attractive Batgirls and Supergirls, sexy women who fill out sexy Star Trek uniforms, Princess Leia's, and a dead-ringer for #6 in Battlestar, oh the HORROR the young people face in the circle of geeks these days!!

I went to a comic con in 1989 in Buffalo. There wasn't an interested female within 25 miles of that venue. There wasn't even a REAL nerd girl, let alone a throng of them, along with the "fake" ones.

An attractive girl spends a pay cheque on a costume, gets an all access pass to the event, spends an entire weekend dressed up to meet people while getting sneered, jeered, and leered at by a pack of ungrateful pricks. DOESN'T LEAVE because of those pricks, and she is still considered a "fake".

If I could trade Comic Con 1989 for 2012, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and so would a ton of older nerd and geeks. You (not the quoted person specifically, but this generation of teenage male nerds) have hot women with an interest in your interests at your conventions. At or nearing your sexual peak, and you are COMPLAINING???

I am starting to sounds like my dad on this one, but I do not understand this generation.

Literally every argument you made was addressed in the post you quoted.