Jimquisition: Hardcore Hypocrisy

[Waaghpowa]

1: @0:21-0:36 I believe the proper name for this subset is "PC Gamers."

You're trying really hard to get flamed, aren't you?

Just go through all his posts and find every instance of hypocrisy in which he flames, acts smug or superior to PC gamers for being arrogant asswipes. No matter how often people prove him wrong, he just ignores it and continues on his crusade.

 

[Treblaine]

Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

You know Call of Duty right? That thing that gets repackaged every year?

I'm not a fan of Mario Kart myself, in fact, I prefer CoD to MK, but to see such a huge scoring difference is bizarre.

Because if you actually look BEYOND the superficial, then MW3 has been a brilliant addition.

I've taken a look at the weapons stats and you know they are really really impressive how they have been balanced. The mathematics of it is quite impressive as at times its like a card game like blackjack only you are adding up to 100 rather than 21 in choosing the ideal weapon to take people down quickest without being redundant.

Its got so many great little quirks and has such significant differences from weapon to weapon like the difference between a rifle that deals 35 damage or 49 damage or 45 damage that really matter when factoring in cover-penetration, ballistic armour and the new killstreak of juggernaut.

Then you have the hugely variable recoil-profiles and hipfire patterns, movement speeds, ADS times. It all makes for a really good game. And more than that a DIFFERENT game! Yeah, the premise and pace is very similar but you DO have to think about the depth in such different ways.

It is SUCH an improvement over Black Ops that had such incredibly similar weapons. Raging Amish complained bitterly about how all the weapons he tested so many were clones of each other. But he has said that is definitely not the case here with MW3, every weapon seems to have a completely unique playstyle and strategy.

The perk structure is now so well defined. In MW2 for almost every single class there was very little reason to use anything other than "Slight-of-hand + Stopping-power + Steady-Aim". MW3 things have been changed around so much every weapon really does need a completely different perk setup.

I haven't played Mario Kart of 3DS but looking at the reviews for it and the Wii version, it does not indicate the many small but critical differences that have been made to improve the COD series. I can understand how from a distance it looks like both games franchises have done the same thing, but I think it may be the case that Mario Kart 7 has failed on the important details.

 

[Red Roark]

These last string of Jimquisition videos have been some of the best IMO. Looking forward to it every week.

I remember my roots. Every time I get fustrated by loading ques I play some classic sonic or tetris.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Does anyone actually consider themselves a hardcore, or casual gamer?
Seems a bit two dimensional and restrictive...

I consider myself a casual hardcore gamer, I love games, but don't dedicate my life to them. There's very little I wont at least try.

 

[weirdee]

Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

You know Call of Duty right? That thing that gets repackaged every year?

I'm not a fan of Mario Kart myself, in fact, I prefer CoD to MK, but to see such a huge scoring difference is bizarre.

Any game can be as hardcore or as casual as you make it. Mario, for most people, is a casual experience, but there will always be the speed run fanatics.

I take it that you've seen that one video that shows the same building being used in every CoD game they've made, right?

 

[DustyDrB]

Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

You know Call of Duty right? That thing that gets repackaged every year?

I'm not a fan of Mario Kart myself, in fact, I prefer CoD to MK, but to see such a huge scoring difference is bizarre.

If you're scoring based solely on them re-releasing and not changing much every year, then yeah, they should be the same.

But that's where any similarities between the two end. One is a shooter, the other is a kart racer for fuck's sake. How anyone can even compare them is just... ridiculous. They're two entirely different games with entirely different styles aimed at entirely different markets.

Or if you want an actual explanation, it's because Call of Duty is really, really good at what it does, which is set-piece campaign, solid shooting controls, and addictive multiplayer and MW3 continued that. Whereas Mario Kart didn't do so well at what it does, which is kart racing. And it didn't do so well at that.

Again, one's a huge-budgeted shooter aimed at the console market. The other's a kart-racer aimed at the handheld market. They have NOTHING in common beyond being games that don't change much with each release.

When I read his MK7 review, it seemed that it wasn't just about not changing. It was about not changing the obvious problems that have been in the series for several games now.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Not to defend what tyson did or anything, but Punch out came out before he raped that girl, and I dont think the people at Punch out could see into the future (otherwise they all would have played the lottery and said fuck off to punch out). A lot like how Michael Vick is on the cover of Madden 2004 while he was with the Falcons back before he got into to the dog fighting thing.

Besides, Kobe Bryant is on the cover of NBA 2K10, so what really would it matter if they started just slapping on Mike Tyson's name to Punch Out for the celebrity endorsement?

EDIT:

Its gonna be funny when Jim has to make a video here defending himself for his mario kart/cod "controversy"

 

[geizr]

I thought Hardcore gamers were determined by how many and how often they play games but not what games they play...Nevertheless, the most "simple" games can be the hardiest to play.

Your definition of "causal" or "hardcore" can easily be determined by the style of play rather than the game itself so I wouldn't be too quick to judge others for being causal/hardcore gamers.

People who say that a game isn't a game are being arrogant and are not worth a single breath to explain how that game is a game.

Chess is one of the most "hardcore" casual games you could ever play. All the rules fit in less than half a side of a single sheet of paper, yet, it could take you years to learn to play effectively.

I agree that distinction of hardcore gamer versus casual gamer has become distorted. Back in the day, the hardcore gamer was one who spent a great deal of time with games of many different varieties and absorbing copious amounts of gaming information. Not only that, the hardcore gamer back then was the type of person who typically shunned the exact kind of mainstream titles that today are considered hardcore and spent significant time and effort searching for the more obscure and underground titles that few people knew about or played. These titles were often the extreme end of the quirky Japanese games, and the hardcore would often import these games and modify their systems to defeat the region lock-outs that would, otherwise, prevent them from playing these titles. Back then, it was not unusual for the hardcore gamer to own 3 or more different systems and 100+ games for each system. Can any of this be said of the so-called hardcore gamers of today?

Today's hardcore gamer seems more defined as simply someone who owns at least the one most technologically superior system(in terms of features and graphics capability) and who owns sequel after sequel of the same 5-7 high-budget triple-A titles(and triple-A no longer has any relation to overall quality as it once did, just high-end graphics and lots of money spent on production). Back in the day, we would call such a person a mainstream gamer, because they only focus on the most highly marketed and visible games.

However, going past this silly holy war of "hardcore" versus "casual", at the end of the day, it's all just games. It doesn't matter to call it hardcore, casual, mainstream, quirky, or whatever. It's a game. There are people it will appeal to and people it won't. These classifications we impose are immaterial. We play games because we like playing games. Period. End of story. If playing a game is one of your main modes of deriving fun and entertainment, then you are a gamer, independent of what kind of game you may like.

And it doesn't matter what platform you play upon, console, handheld, mobile device, PC, or Mac. It's all just games. These holy wars are nothing more than conceited justifications for rationalizing one's own self-importance and compensation for insecurities and lacking self-esteem.

 

[chstens]

The main problem is that the people who need to hear this aren't watching this show.

 

[4173]

Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

So when you said "this," I assume you were describing your own post? Or are you suffering from that same "self awareness" problem Jim mentioned with the "Casual Shooter" thing?

Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...

I can't speak for every new Mario, but The original SMB and SMB 3 both qualify as "shit my mom" played. And my dad, too.

My mom also seemed to have no problem with Super Mario Galaxy, despite having not played a video game since like 1989 or so. And she's not exactly the type of person you expect to dive into video games.

Does that make it the rule? No, but it does make it hard for me to buy the notion that a Mario game is a poor introduction.

SMB and SMB 3 (and SMW) are definitely the games I had in mind. I don't deny their importance to history, they were some of the first games I played too, but video arcades were still a widespread thing and pinball machines were in places other than museums. At that time there was no Pokemon or Angry Birds or Plants vs. Zombies. Mario fit fine in that paradigm; games were always trying to fuck you over and we accepted it because there wasn't anything else.

Super Mario is casual and accessible by the standards of Ninja Gaiden and Contra, not Super Mario Galaxy or Portal.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

A bit of a waste of an episode to be honest. Everyone knows to ignore people who go on like this as they aren't hardcore gamers they are trolls and everyone should start using the actually definitions of hardcore and casual so this stuff can go away. A Hardcore gamer is someone who plays all games, has played games for a long time and goes out of their way to devote time to gaming. A Casual gamer is someone who does not take the hobby seriously and only dabbles in it rarely playing games or only 1 game. That is pretty much as close as an actual definitino you will get.

 

[scorptatious]

All I have to say to this Jim is:

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Finally, someone who also sees how ridiculous "harcore gamers" are being.

As for me, I enjoy any kind of game that I find appealing. Shadow of the Colossus is my most favorite game of all time, and yet I also enjoy games like Angry Birds. Just because the latter is pretty simple compared to the former, does not make it any less of a game to me.

 

[Nenad]

a bit tangential, but the only real gripes i have with IOS games are not that they're too simple. or that they're too casual; its that i cant get them on my pc! seriously! i would fling money at my laptop hard enough to blow a hole through it if i could get a pc compatible version for angry birds or infinity blade!... and no i wont buy an i-phone.... unless apple makes a deal with bethesda and you can buy an apple pip boy...

And now you can [http://chrome.angrybirds.com/]! Gasp!

 

[Nurb]

Just to bring up, some people who want a "deeper" experience in some games (I have no idea what infinity blade is), do acknowledge gaming's roots, but realize it's grown and developed beyond them and have higher standards.

It's like when you were a kid; everyone was gushing over your ability to spell "cat", but when you grow and head in for that job interview, they expect more than you knowing the cow says "moo".

I'm not defending the people Jim is talking about (I can dig simplicity in newer games), but that people demanding more effort be put into games than the current "goldrush" to simpler platforms when the bigger budget games are left so shallow more often than not have a point.

 

[Darth Rahu]

Thank you Jim for holding up Infinity Blade as an example of just how awesome iOS games are getting. if I'm not waiting for an update to download or I'm waiting for a food order to be completed, I wind up blowing a lot of time on both Infinity Blade games. Not for the graphics, that's pretty stupid on an iPhone game I mean if you want pretty colors watch a movie, but for the simple controls yet deep mechanics. Being able to watch enemies, learn their tells, parry their strikes then get in some swift combos, ohh man it's like crack! On top of that, Infinity Blade 2 adds the ability to dual wield weapons and go two-handed with maces and the like as opposed to the basic Sword and Shield fighting style. Also, you get different weapons with different abilities, different rings with diverse magic spells, and customizable gems to help tweak certain weapons. This is a "AAA" iPhone game for about seven dollars American, and I've been getting a lot of mileage out of it. As you said, simple interface, but lots of depth underneath, that is a great game, "hardcore" or "casual". And if Hardcore gamers want to dismiss it because its an iOS game, well hopefully they'll come around, but until then it's ours...ALL OURS!!! O_O

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I don't think I've never known a term to be so confusing to people as "casual gamer", and I'm a fair bit older than most escapists. The term has been thrown around on gaming sites for years and I still can't find two people who agree on what it means. Even the infamously variable meaning of "RPG" tends to be better defined, and better understood, than "casual gamer".

I'm a PC gamer. I also consider myself a "hardcore gamer". And yet I've been enjoying iOS games for years. To my mind, a game is not automatically "casual" because of it's platform. Infinity Blade certainly isn't. Anyone can get the hang of Tetris in no time, but games like Infinity Blade assume a certain amount of (hardcore) gaming knowledge that most hardcore gamers don't even realise they have.

 

[aescuder]

I agree with the overall message although I'm sure there are many other facets to the casual gamer culture other than simplicity that "hardcore" gamers do not like. Questionable marketing schemes as well as the way they sometimes abuse gamification mechanics are a few that pop up from my head. Although yes I absolutely agree that the overall gaming community should be more inclusive and not exclusive and smug.

That aside, the one thing that I do find rather irksome about this video and other Jim Sterling videos is the way he uses the love for simple classic games as a crutch and completely ignoring its context in time (I believe he uses that same argument in the discussion about difficulty in games). Most of the time people are deeply enamored with retro games not really because they hold up in modern context, although sometimes they absolutely do, but I think its because they were absolutely gorgeous/groundbreaking/addicting FOR ITS TIME. I love simple games as much as the next casual gamer but you would forgive me if I expect more out of my $400 console and $60 blu-ray. If I could get a game like Skyrim for $60 you best have a lot more under your belt than simplicity and retro nostalgia in order for me to pay the same amount.

I absolutely love the classics like Punch Out, Super Mario Brothers, and Contra, but there is no way I would be playing it again anytime soon.

 

[XDravond]

I consider myself a "gamer" because I play games (quite often, like daily...) but would not put myself in "casual" or "hardcore" categories because there is always a sliding scale.
To a "non-gamer" I would probably be seen as hardcore, but to the "hardcore" I would seem more of a casual gamer, so what then?....

Games do not have to be "deep" or "impressive" brilliant, awesome, cool, best, and so on... I want my games to be fun TO ME, I don't need someone to tell me "that game you are enjoying are bad" it's fine to think that but do I have to care, no.
But say "Skyrim" sure it's a great game but why is it getting 10s all over have anyone watched the graphics (blocky faces, unimpressive ground/trees etc) should that not at least get some negative points? Sure the gameplay is awesome but why do the modding community have to "fix" such basic things as face-graphics? ... Will I enjoy it even though I "have" to modd it? Oh yes.. ;-D

 

[Trishbot]

Whatever happened to the litmus test of gaming, "easy to pick up, hard to master." There ya go. Length, complexity, budget... all those are secondary.

 

[Jennacide]

You know Jim, you're both right and wrong. You're right on the mark for the subject, but I'd wager your wrong on the group that is doing the slander. You're in the same age group as me, people that grew up with the fucking Atari and NES. I'm fairly confident the "hardcore haters" subset is all people that came in during the PS1 or PS2 era, and that's all they know is the more modernized games, where titles with the simplicity of Pac-man or Space Invaders was fewer and far between.

Which is honestly a fucking shame. As Pac-man Champsionship is the most played game on my Xbox360, bar none.