Jimquisition: Hardcore Hypocrisy

[Sylveria]

I don't hate casual games.

I hate the industry for dumbing so many games down so that those smug, middle class cunts in those video excerpts might consider playing them.

The industry is in love with the idea that their games will gain wider recognition and acceptability - which translates either into being played at parties by 'non-gamers' or, on the flipside, being played by the multiplayer jock crowd - how else explain Bioware's desperate whoring to multiplayer other than their acceptance of the stereotype that single player is for nerds, brah... Each is as bad as the other.

.....I dont think single player is going anywhere though...depth and complexity sure

It may not be going anywhere, but we see it becoming an afterthought rather than the focus and it'll likely get worse as time progresses.

I have to agree with Six though. We've seen many-a-game where the sequel had a lot of "complicated features" stripped out or over-simplified to appeal to people who are, quite frankly, dumb and lazy. There's become this big thing in current gaming where people seem to just want the game to drag them, kicking and screaming if necessary, to the end credits. They've started making games to accommodate that "let's just get this over with" mentality.

They don't allow people to explore or experiment. Some games, like one of the recent shooters of this season, actually would fail your mission if you decided to explore. But I think FF13 is probably the most grievous example of this; there was nothing but a 1 way tunnel to the end game with 2 exceptions, a little 'fix this robot" quest in a ruined city, and the "Kill this named" missions in Pulse; half of which couldn't even be completed until after you've beaten the game because it limits how much you can level.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

While I did grow up with sonic and other such simpler games, I do not any more enjoy playing them much at all and haven't done so in the last 15~ years. I tried to get into mario galaxy and it was just dull. I indeed wouldn't play any such game over the ones I am currently playing (blazblue, disgaea, persona, you know the deep stuff)


The funny thing is that I wouldn't call infinity blade a casual game, though other games do deserve that title I feel that for what it is it's about as non-casual as it gets. In a world where Wrpgs are all button-mashy action games with looting ant stat elements like Diablo it's a breath of fresh air.


Oh and call of duty is indeed a casual game. If you have millions of people all on one game you can't expect everyone to be pro.

 

[nick2150]

JIM! Enunciate your T's. I know youve been in America for a long time, but a more English pronunciation is perfect for your style of pseudo arrogance and smugness!

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

World of Goo and Sword & Sworcery are 2 of my favourite games of all time. That is all.

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

The whole casual vs hardcore argument is pointless and stupid

 

[Something Amyss]

I've seen kids that can play the shit out of an FPS but can't beat World 8-3 because of the Hammer Bros. In other words, modern day hardcore games aren't as hardcore as older Mario games.

And I've seen my mom beat the game.

This is kind of the problem with personal anecdotes, which is why I noted it didn't really prove anything.

 

[Something Amyss]

Super Mario is casual and accessible by the standards of Ninja Gaiden and Contra, not Super Mario Galaxy or Portal.

And my parents could play the games rather proficiently, despite only one of them being technically adept.

There were a lot of people picking up and handling these games casually back when. Give people a little credit instead of assuming they're too stupid to make it through a game experience without their hands being held.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I will, when IOS gaming has been around long enough to establish itself as a true gaming platform. Those games weren't exactly early in the PC's life cycle.

Console games have been around just as long and haven't seen that level of depth.

lol

You honestly believe that? You really think that no console game has ever equaled the complexity of a PC game?

That's just...

The...

Forget it.

A console game that matches the complexity of Europa Universalis.

That's a laugh. The only place where a game of that complexity can exist is on the PC.

Even if that's the case, complexity =/= good game.

I know that's hard to swallow coming from a dirty peasant console gamer.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

I don't like Infinity Blade or Punch Out! because they don't allow free movement. It's a nitpick, and not much to go on in terms of quality, so I say: "I don't like it because of this.", not "It's bad because of this.".

 

[SimGrave]

Good timing with my state of my mind.
This week I became fed up with all these stupid battles.
- Hardcore vs casual... retarded.
- Forza vs Gran Turismo... retarded.
- PS3 vs Xbox... retarded.
- Call of Duty vs Battlefield... retarded.
I still don't get why it is important for people to win these points. There are no valid arguments. Yes one could say that technically one is better than the other.
But enjoying something is subjective. UN-Quantifiable.
So there is no ways to win these battles. NO WAYS!
And if it did, you it really affect my appreciation of something?
Let's say that an intelligence from above with unquestionable truth would say that PS3 is greater than Xbox... would that make me appreciate my PS3 more? NAH, I doubt it.
This is all retarded.
We want our industry to be taken seriously... it's not going to happen with that attitude.

 

[Marudas]

While Complexity does not ensure a good game, it gives much more potential for a compelling experience than simplistic experiences. Both deserve to exist and fill specific roles, but I just want to lay down one very targeted criticism here. "Older games were simple, and they were our forerunners, great games and the foundation of the industry" is not a good argument for simplistic games. The Model T was a revolutionary car and a forerunner for future automobiles, but you don't make it anymore because that would just be silly. Video games don't quite have the hardline differences as my previous comparison, but there is a point there. Older games weren't simple because they thought it was a better experience, they were simple because that was the limit of what they could do. They were still plenty fun, and current simple games can also be such, but so far as my opinion goes, complexity can always offer you a more satisfying experience if you do it right.

 

[CodeOrange]

This video is silly, Sterling was just recycling some of his old content. It's probably in response to the alleged claims that his credibility as an unbiased journalist has been discredited by his recent musings: first backing CoD as a legitimately non-casual game; then stating that Kirby and Dynasty Warriors are his favorite games; and now giving Skyrim a 10? Seems to me that only the easy games curry his favour. My guess is that like all other people who think Skyrim is good for some reason, he was offended that someone online or irl called him a "featherweight" or whatnot for not knowing what RPG or game mechanics are or something like that.

Oh how I miss the days when the Jimquisition wasn't popular, where he explored unknown facts facts and countered misguided tropes in the game industry as opposed to just speaking his mind. His show is still entertaining to watch though, albeit with a pinch of salt.

OT: Hardcore gamers and causal gamers are here to stay; they exist and will never go away. I do hope that one of his later shows explains the effect that purist hardcore gamers have on the market despite being a minority and the irrelevance of casual gamers do have in the long term. You don't become a gamer because oh wow my iphone/facebook has games! Like hedonism or philanthropy, gaming (or rather escapism, if you pardon the unintended plug) isn't a hobby or occupation (in most cases), it is a lifestyle choice. And there will always be people who tap into this medium to experience said behaviors. How many of you started gaming seriously around the same time you entered adolescence?

 

[Ashley Blalock]

Hardcore was okay when it was a way to celebrate someone pulling off something insanely hard in a game or the dedication to pull off something that only a few people could accomplish.

But somewhere along the way it moved from congratulations for beating that game or congratulations on picking up that gear to being elitist. Instead of just enjoying your accomplishments it became look down your nose at players who aren't in the top raiding guild, who didn't complete a game on hard mode, or gamers who play on anything other than the X-Box 360 or PS3.

Tough hard games have their place in gaming and it would a sad state of gaming if there weren't touch accomplishments to strive for, but there is also a time and place of just a bit of fun and no worries about who is better that who.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Even if that's the case, complexity =/= good game.

I know that's hard to swallow coming from a dirty peasant console gamer.

And I believe that you legitimately think that. Console gamers will naturally reject more complex games because they can't handle it.

Sorry to disappoint you, but even though I mostly play console games, I play PC games too.

I don't think they're as complex as you think they are.

 

[Embz]

Also speaking of IOS, anybody ever played Game Dev Story? Best $2 I ever spent. We need more of these type of games.

My boyfriend has this on his ipod, it is sooo addictive! I have now been banned from his ipod cos I keep running the battery down playing it XD.
Probably one of the best IOS games Ive ever played!

 

[LordFisheh]

Casual and hardcore. In the end, it's just people creating meaningless groups for a sense of identity and hating on anything else nearby. I don't care if you don't like x, that doesn't mean the industry is dead because you don't agree with it and it doesn't mean there's some kind of gaming moral imperative that just happens to coincide with what you wish was true. This is like arguing over whether painters are better than novelists or blue is better than green.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Sorry to disappoint you, but even though I mostly play console games, I play PC games too.

I don't think they're as complex as you think they are.

Because they keep getting dumbed down for the console crowd.

Ah, right, you're one of those people.

And here I thought we were going to have an intelligent conversation.

I'll just be over here, not knowing which why to hold my controller, because I'm a fucking idiot who doesn't know a good game when I play one.

 

[Kingsnake661]

Ah, i remember well the day i lost my "teh hardcoz" title. It was the night before the Wii launch. I gotten 2 calls that day to camp out and wait for a WII. One over night in target parking lot from one friend, another to go sit in a 24 hour Walmat store for the next 13 hours in a group of 6 chairs that had lined up for the only 6 systems they had.

I turned both friends down and went to sleep in my comfy bed. I got up about 2 hours eairly then normally, drove around the city for about 2 or 3 hours and put together a system, extra controller, and about 3 or 4 games, dispite my lack of "hardcoz" effort. LOL. Friends didn't talk to me for a week... but i wasn't a kid anymore and i didn't care enough about the wii to camp out in the snow of a parking lot for the system. And thus, i was no longer "teh hardcoz..."

*shrug*

LOL, loved the show. And i tend to agree with everything you said. back then, before the Wii, hardcore just kind of ment a decadited gamer. It's a different meaning now a days and one i'd rather not be assouated with to be honest. I'm fine with being casual now a days. LOL.

 

[Sir Prize]

Sorry to disappoint you, but even though I mostly play console games, I play PC games too.

I don't think they're as complex as you think they are.

Because they keep getting dumbed down for the console crowd.

So making a game that can be used on more than one console is dumbing it down, or is it simply making easier to control?

No offense but it's people like you who make me feel like giving a middle finger to PC gaming as a whole. Just because something has easier controls doesn't make it better, in fact it can do be an improvment. Because here's the thing the only big difference between the console and PC version of a game is normaally the controls,sometimes the graphics as well.

I've played my fair share of PC games, an MMORPG and some very interesting ones without DRM. I didn't awe at how complex they were or think how amazing their more complex controls were, I liked them for the experience and the handling wasn't a big deal!

The big thing I envy from PC gamers is that they have modding, which is awesome in the right hands. Other than that I see no ground breaking difference between the two and believe that PC and console gamers like yourself need to STFU and just enjoy games. Without all the 'WAH GAMES ARE GETTING TO SIMPLE' whining, because really there's no need for it.

EDIT: You'll have to excuse any bad spelling and such, I've got a bit of a cold right now and while I can type, my brain isn't working as quickly as it should be.

OT: Agreed, a simple game isn't any less enjoyable and the platform of which the game belongs to shouldn't be used to cheapen the experience.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

I wonder where the odd idea that there is only so much room at the gaming table so everything must be for one type of gamer came from? With it seeming like more and more things to play games on and more and more games being released that the table is bigger than ever instead of smaller.

Is the games industry really so small that games can only be made for one type of player or there should only be one device to play games on? Even within games the last time I checked Azeroth was big enough that you didn't have to do heroic raids if that wasn't your thing.