If all of the creative blood keeps disappearing from the aaa market then it?s going to crash, nothing can survive without innovation and evolution.
Jimquisition: Irrational Decisions (Or Freedom In Chains)
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Or new blood comes in to replace it. If the old guard leave, I suspect there are plenty of new designers who'd be quite happy to take their place. The best-case scenario is that the publishers realise that working under "marketing constraints" might be unfeasible and give the new bunch a bit more freedom and creative control. Leave the marketers out of the creative process, and let 'em do what they're good at instead: working out how to publicise a game when they have more of an idea of what the developer's vision is and who it should be sold to.themilo504 said:
The abolition of some "big-name" game designers doesn't mean that the AAA games industry is heading for meltdown. Hell, I think it would probably be a bad thing if it did. D'you think I want to miss out on the next big single-player "Fallout" or "Elder Scrolls" game just because somebody dropped the ball with "Call of Duty"? To get games like "Skyrim" made, you NEED the big investors, you NEED the money and the voice actors and the rest.
Activision is selling three separate games. When you buy Broken Age, you get the whole thing. You won't be able to play the second part until it comes out later this year. You won't have to pay more for it. Another example is when elements are clearly ripped from the game to sell as DLC. That's not happening with Broken Age.Scow2 said:
I really couldn't follow Jim's logic in talking about Broken Age here. I don't see how the developement was at all compromised by the budget. When Tim got the extra money he planned for a bigger game. As it became clear that would cost more, they simply found ways to pay for it without resorting to outside money.
They retained control of the product throughout and are producing exactly what they wanted. Their plan appears to be working too; they've already made the money needed to cover part 2.
The fact that big people are leaving the aaa industry is more a sign of how bad things are starting to get, I highly doubt it?s the cause of a potential crash.TheMadDoctorsCat said:
and I do agree that the aaa industry crashing would be very bad, but I think that something very bad has to happen before publishers start changing their ways.
Problem is that "new blood" is only making mobile games. The crash is coming, and thank god when it does.TheMadDoctorsCat said:
I don't see how arguing that one side of the coin is a good thing means that Jim or others are missing the fact that a lot of people lost their jobs. Thing is, the video isn't really about Ken Levine. It's about him and other big names moving to smaller studios so they can be more creative.hermes200 said:
It is a shame that he didn't mention this because, let's face it, Levine did this in the dumbest and most insensitive way possible. But it's also not really relevant to the points Jim is making. And is it even a point that needs making? Are there really a ton of people out there that don't realize that when you cut a major studio down to 10-15 people it means everyone else lost their job? I'd think that's pretty obvious.
I was sadder to hear that BioShock was being handed over to 2K, not that they're a bad publisher, but just that we'll likely see another 'okay' sequel instead of another fantastic one.
In Ken Levine died, that would be tragic, but moving onto something else is interesting.
In Ken Levine died, that would be tragic, but moving onto something else is interesting.
No. Just no. I absolutely love Dead Space, but I really don't want it to continued. The Awakened DLC ends the series in a very definitive way, and only the largest and lamest of ass-pulls could continue the series. The only thing that could be made are prequels. In the age of rehashes and remakes, I kind of like the fact a series can end. Granted, it was more murder than suicide, but still.SnakeoilSage said:
Hmmm, well for all the comments about smaller budgets not being an entirely bad thing, I can't help but feel that a big part of the problem, and the cause of gamer dissatisfaction, is simply that your not seeing decent RPGs and such given the AAA treatment. Your basically left with either say a good RPG experience that looks like refried crap, and no offense but the more stylized artwork becomes the more subjective it's "beauty" is and really it seems like style in many cases amounts to you know... people trying to dress up crap with fancy, positive sounding words.
The thing is that these games involving tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars are almost always directed at the most profitable seeming market. It's not that your AAA RPGs and such won't make a profit, it's that they won't make enough of a profit, and in that lies the problem and why the industry winds up under such fire. The industry equates arbitrary projections with reality, it doesn't matter if you make 20 million dollars in profit, if someone projected your going to make 40, they report that as a 20 million dollar loss and treat it as such. This is how you wind up with a multi-billion dollar industry reporting record profits as a whole many years, full of dozens of developers and publishers crying poverty and QQing about all the money they are allegedly losing.
As a gamer, tons of talented people leaving the AAA side of the industry and moving on to smaller companies doesn't strike me as a good thing, it just continues the divide, and ensures that the industry is a shadow of what it could be. Granted it DOES mean we'll see better, smaller-scale games, but it also means that say RPG fans are still going to be waiting absurd amounts of time before they get any real AAA level games aimed at them, and arguably Survival Horror fans have it even worse, I mean at least RPG gamers had the Bioware stuff for a while, the only decent IP coming out of Survival Horror is the as of yet unproven "Evil Within".
I'll also be fairly blunt about something when it comes to survival horror which is my second favorite genera (RPGs, Survival Horror, Strategy/Tactical War Games, and oddly enough Fighting Games in that order are my favorites), "Outlast" is a rare exception within that area of gaming as far as indie development goes, and honestly it, like the original Amnesia, largely stands out due to long term neglect of the genera. As good as they seem currently none of them have the "wow factor" of the original Resident Evil, Silent Hill, or Fatal Frame, titles. Heck I'd even argue they didn't even do as well as the "Obscure" or "Condemned" series. A big part of it is of course that they skipped the more complicated parts of the game design, such as trying to have a combat system that still allows the game to be a horror experience, while some would argue the focus on forced stealth and evasion is a "good thing" I suspect it's mostly a kneejerk reaction to all of the alleged "horror" games becoming action titles (namely Resident Evil and Silent Hill). For every halfway decent title like the ones mentioned, you wind up with some pretty big failures as well, "A Machine For Pigs" showed that a creepy atmosphere can do a lot for a game, but at the end of the day you still need to do something with it more frequently other than the occasional puzzle, "Huntsman: The Orphanage" seemed like it was going to be an interesting title, but it basically amounted to listening to amateur voice actors prattle on for hours and hoping you'd pick up on the important bits for the eventual puzzles, and there are of course others, last year I thought was going to be a sort of renaissance for the genera and honestly out of the bunch "Outlast" was the only one that I came away thinking was particularly good, and indeed it was so good in the deprived climate that I couldn't stop comparing "Machine For Pigs" to it, even if they were going for different things, and that probably reduced my opinion of the second Amnesia accordingly despite what is an immensely impressive environment...
The thing is that these games involving tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars are almost always directed at the most profitable seeming market. It's not that your AAA RPGs and such won't make a profit, it's that they won't make enough of a profit, and in that lies the problem and why the industry winds up under such fire. The industry equates arbitrary projections with reality, it doesn't matter if you make 20 million dollars in profit, if someone projected your going to make 40, they report that as a 20 million dollar loss and treat it as such. This is how you wind up with a multi-billion dollar industry reporting record profits as a whole many years, full of dozens of developers and publishers crying poverty and QQing about all the money they are allegedly losing.
As a gamer, tons of talented people leaving the AAA side of the industry and moving on to smaller companies doesn't strike me as a good thing, it just continues the divide, and ensures that the industry is a shadow of what it could be. Granted it DOES mean we'll see better, smaller-scale games, but it also means that say RPG fans are still going to be waiting absurd amounts of time before they get any real AAA level games aimed at them, and arguably Survival Horror fans have it even worse, I mean at least RPG gamers had the Bioware stuff for a while, the only decent IP coming out of Survival Horror is the as of yet unproven "Evil Within".
I'll also be fairly blunt about something when it comes to survival horror which is my second favorite genera (RPGs, Survival Horror, Strategy/Tactical War Games, and oddly enough Fighting Games in that order are my favorites), "Outlast" is a rare exception within that area of gaming as far as indie development goes, and honestly it, like the original Amnesia, largely stands out due to long term neglect of the genera. As good as they seem currently none of them have the "wow factor" of the original Resident Evil, Silent Hill, or Fatal Frame, titles. Heck I'd even argue they didn't even do as well as the "Obscure" or "Condemned" series. A big part of it is of course that they skipped the more complicated parts of the game design, such as trying to have a combat system that still allows the game to be a horror experience, while some would argue the focus on forced stealth and evasion is a "good thing" I suspect it's mostly a kneejerk reaction to all of the alleged "horror" games becoming action titles (namely Resident Evil and Silent Hill). For every halfway decent title like the ones mentioned, you wind up with some pretty big failures as well, "A Machine For Pigs" showed that a creepy atmosphere can do a lot for a game, but at the end of the day you still need to do something with it more frequently other than the occasional puzzle, "Huntsman: The Orphanage" seemed like it was going to be an interesting title, but it basically amounted to listening to amateur voice actors prattle on for hours and hoping you'd pick up on the important bits for the eventual puzzles, and there are of course others, last year I thought was going to be a sort of renaissance for the genera and honestly out of the bunch "Outlast" was the only one that I came away thinking was particularly good, and indeed it was so good in the deprived climate that I couldn't stop comparing "Machine For Pigs" to it, even if they were going for different things, and that probably reduced my opinion of the second Amnesia accordingly despite what is an immensely impressive environment...
^Dead on the money. And what I was going to say, only probably more concise.gargantual said:
AAA doesn't care, and hasn't cared, about uniqueness or "artistic integrity" for some time.
They make products for money and no other reason. It's just a paycheck. And chasing the paycheck means bending fully to whatever trends is making bank at the moment. Gotta get on the big-bucks bandwagon or someone will beat you to it and eat your lunch.
"Online Multiplayer" is just the latest in the series of those trends.
When AAA trots out "online" as the future of all gaming; they aren't envisioning great concept gameplay, or new and interesting mechanics performed in ways that only two or more human beings can accomplish; they're envisioning putting you and your friends in their digital crack house, with them as your dealer.
They're envisioning persistent payments for microtransactions and/or subscription fees; backed by an easy to control, easy to prepare drip line of content delivered as DLC and sequels. Their gameplay will pander directly to the lowest common denominator, because to do otherwise is asinine.
Basically, all of AAA wants to become Blizzard Entertainment.
Eh, everyone has their preference. I think there are still new directions it can go, however.LysanderNemoinis said:
As much as I want to think Levine did something good, I really don't see it. If he wanted to break away to be an "smaller studio" thats fine, but shuttering his studio and leaving a lot of people out of work just seems wrong to me. I understand that his publisher said they would help find work in other studios, but at the same time that will mean relocation and if a person has a family it means uprooting their entire family.
The other issue I have is Levine isn't leaving Take Two, he is just starting a new studio with them so I don't consider what he is doing the same approach as someone going indie or trying to do something new, for he is still going to have the demands of a publisher with expectations of what he needs to be doing.
The other issue I have is Levine isn't leaving Take Two, he is just starting a new studio with them so I don't consider what he is doing the same approach as someone going indie or trying to do something new, for he is still going to have the demands of a publisher with expectations of what he needs to be doing.
I took it more seriously than the assumption that this was a beneficial move done with the spirit of gaming in mind.canadamus_prime said:
As much as I don't see this as a positive move, I'm curious: what is the solution, then? To prop up a bunch of people for....How long?Sanunes said:
At this point I'm more than a little sick of indie games. There are wads of arty thinky depressing/horror games each with a cute hook of some variety. There are gobs of deceptively smart funzos-for-days games too. But indies cannot pull off the gaming equivalent of the B-movie.
Sometimes I want to see a big meaty dude and his annoying best friend shoot some bad guys in the face, get double-crossed by the femme fatale, have their little gay moment where the annoying best friend dies and they declare undying love for each other (nohomo), and eventually save the princess and ride of into the sunset. To be totally honest, that's what I want to see most of the time. Because that is fun.
Sometimes I want to see a big meaty dude and his annoying best friend shoot some bad guys in the face, get double-crossed by the femme fatale, have their little gay moment where the annoying best friend dies and they declare undying love for each other (nohomo), and eventually save the princess and ride of into the sunset. To be totally honest, that's what I want to see most of the time. Because that is fun.