Jimquisition: Joy Begets Anger

[Thanatos2k]

See, the source of the problem here is that people get really mad when you like something they dislike. And yes, paradoxically it's worse than someone hating something you like.

When someone hates something you like, you KNOW they're wrong. After all, you played it, you liked it, and no one can take that away from you.

When someone likes something you hate, there's that small terrifying possibility that....maybe you're wrong. That provokes the biggest rage every time, because you now have to PROVE you're not wrong to yourself, by protesting in the loudest most obnoxious way possible.

One addendum though: Hating a review/review score is not quite the same as hating someone else because they like something. That perfect Dragon Age 2 score IS a travesty, not because the reviewer liked the game, but because professional reviews are supposed to be more than just whether the reviewer liked it or not, they're supposed to be a rational objective analysis of the components at play, and any objective analysis of the quality of Dragon Age 2 will find it wanting.

 

[Ruisu]

"I don't get it" is one of the things I see myself saying a lot when talking about gamers and moviegoers. So much hate. Why can't we go back to that time when we loved the things we loved, and just leave things we don't like be?

 

[shrekfan246]

You say you want to love all games, but do you really?

Do you really want to even imagine a world in which Ride to Hell: Retribution was a title which brought you unadulterated joy and cheer?

If it was a world in which Ride to Hell: Retribution was somehow actually a good game, sure, why not?

I cannot believe that this is actually a thing. I think "idiot" is being far too kind to people like that.

I've seen far too many sneering comments about Dragon Age II's 5/5 review to not believe it's a thing.

OT: I like to think I keep my composure fairly well in circumstances where I'm discussing games I dislike with people who like them, though I wouldn't be surprised if I've been guilty of becoming angry at some point during the discussion myself.

Speaking as someone who has been rather outspoken about his loathing of Final Fantasy XIII in the past, it does always make me stop for a moment whenever I see somebody say they enjoyed it. I don't begrudge them that, but there does tend to be that nagging voice in the back of my mind which tries convincing me that their opinion is incomprehensible. At least, if they had played any previous Final Fantasy games aside from X.

But I try to just eventually settle on the position that it's good for them that they could find enjoyment out of something I couldn't. At the end of the day, is it really worth getting angry about such trivial things as people loving video games?

 

[Gizmo1990]

When I read some of the stuff people posted to Jim on his DMC review I was ashamed to call myself a gamer for the rest of the week. I really, really hated it but I was glad that Jim and others did as to me a game that nobody likes is just a waste.

But this is stating to effect simple game discussions. Recently it seems like I cannot even say why I like or dislike something when talking to someone before they close up in case I start insulting them simply because they like something and I don't.

 

[ex275w]

Rushed games like Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.

What exactly was rushed about ME3? There was nothing rubbished about ME3 at all, people were just upset that they didn't like the ending, which was pathetic really.

Oh it was more that there were less dialogue options than other, wonky mechanics (the space bar did the same), and I remember loads of animation and gameplay glitches. Nothing Game Breaking but the game should have spent another year in development, 2 years wasn't enough, especially for a big RPG like the ones Bioware do.

 

[carnege4]

That's actually /v/ on a nutshell.

 

[Toilet]

As someone who spends more time talking about video games rather than playing them and my opinion on games that I have played and finished recently is an astounding "meh". People who like video games are usually busy playing games while people who spend more time talking about video games used to like them. It is either due to their older, cynical mindset or video games suck compared to what they were 10 years ago.

I don't get the tickle magic feeling when I play games now, I finished Link Between Worlds a few days ago and like I said my reaction was "meh". Then again games like Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen, Binary Domain, Valkyria Chronicles and MegaMan Zero can still get me going from time to time. Games might not be as good back when I was younger but I reckon I have changed more than video games. (Dragon Age 2 was an abortion of a video game though, I don't understand how anyone can give it a 10/10.)

Spoiler

Bioshock Infinite is still one of the most medicore shooters I have ever played and I think people rate it highly due to the 2deep4u story and "Elizabeth is my waifu." rather than the actual gameplay which is what games are supposed to be about.

That's actually /v/ on a nutshell.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. I like /v/, the community speaks to me.

 

[ex275w]

See, the source of the problem here is that people get really mad when you like something they dislike. And yes, paradoxically it's not as bad as someone hating something you like.

When someone hates something you like, you KNOW they're wrong. After all, you played it, you liked it, and no one can take that away from you.

When someone likes something you hate, there's that small terrifying possibility that....maybe you're wrong. That provokes the biggest rage every time, because you now have to PROVE you're not wrong to yourself, by protesting in the loudest most obnoxious way possible.

One addendum though: Hating a review/review score is not quite the same as hating someone else because they like something. That perfect Dragon Age 2 score IS a travesty, not because the reviewer liked the game, but because professional reviews are supposed to be more than just whether the reviewer liked it or not, they're supposed to be a rational objective analysis of the components at play, and any objective analysis of the quality of Dragon Age 2 will find it wanting.

Reviews can't be 100% objective, they have to mix subjective opinion and objective facts (this game has 10 missions, it costs 60$, etc.) and form those objective facts write why the game is worth buying, renting, stealing from Gamestop, breaking or waiting until the price goes down. (For example the game has 10 missions, that's not a whole lot of variety 1/10)

 

[Custrd]

*Claps at the end of the video* You sir have made a difference!

I realized that I have done this myself once when a friend of mine thought uncharted was the best game ever made. I can personally say that Jim's videos actually make me better as a gamer in a community. Thank God for Jim!

 

[ron1n]

While this Ep was correct, I'd argue this issue is widespread across all forms of media. Don't agree? Take a trip to a music forum some time and see how much rage and bile gets thrown around toward certain positive reviews.

The gaming media do probably cop some of the worst abuse though and I think there's two reasons for this:

1. Demographic: No the stereotypical nerd gamer isn't a realistic representation of most people playing games, but there are still plenty of angry comic book guys out there who take pleasure in writing walls of dismissive text and tend to be pretty anti-social to begin with.

Add to that mix competitive players and 12 year olds etc. and you have a smorgasbord of insecure, angry douchery.

2. Format: This is where I do think that gaming media (and the industry) has brought this kind of vitriol upon themselves to some degree.

More so than any other entertainment medium, gaming is OBSESSED with scores and lists. When publications repeatedly emphasise 'top tens' and X/10 scores and sites like Metacritic are getting far too much attention, its inevitable that rage is induced. Instead of reading what people are saying or understanding view points, idiots just see a review score like a bull sees red and instantly jump on it.

 

[WildFire15]

And so the war between Jim Sterling and Fantasy Miniature Willem Dafoe begins.

It's good logic though, getting pissed about someone liking something is utterly ridiculous. If you enjoy it, fine. If you do and someone else does, also fine. If you're sick of every game copying the most popular one of the moment, don't blame the players, blame the lazy and scared publishers. I loved City of Heroes, spending over six years played while World of Warcraft bored me to death by level 16, but I'm not bothered people enjoy it because everyone's different. If we did all have the same tastes, I doubt we'd have even advanced as far as the wheel, let alone the computer as everyone would be happy with using a couple tree trunks for sled tracks.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

To be honest, at least a third of the "GREG TITO DRAGON AGE 2 WTF WHY" is done as a joke. Sadly, the other 2/3rds actually hold it against him.

Spoiler: Also, obligatory

Even when I don't like games others like, I'm not about to attempt to convince them its wrong or that their joy is a lie. Why would I bother? I'm too busy looking for my own joy to care!

Nice picture and Happy New Year Jim!

 

[Magmarock]

I think most of the anger at positive reviews and opinion on games comes from the negative reviews and opinions on games of the past.

For example Jim, you said the Witcher 2 was decent, but that DMC was great.

I agree with what the points you're making in this video, however I can empathizes just a little as to why people react negatively to a positive view point.

An example for me personally would be Yahtzee. In his Zero Punctuation videos he often cynically rips games a new one which is the whole point of the show. But now and then he'll give it a positive review to game that I personally don't like. For example COD 4 Modern Warfare. When I first played COD 4 I hated it in spite of every even Yahzee licking it and it what frustratingly trying to find anyone who agreed with me even remotely.

Today I think COD Ghosts is the most disgusting and offensive game I have ever played. I will not harass anyone about it but I do think to me self "WHY!" when people praise it.

 

[Hunter Grant]

I really think you see this attitude in games so much, just because of the chasing success phenomenon. Lets use CoD as the example. People who don't like CoD see it being bought up in droves and know that as soon as the other AAA studios see that, they will chase after it and the result will be more games they don't like entering the market taking dev resources away from someone trying to find a blue ocean and make something different. That's the logic I can at least wrap my head around. Its still dumb, and Jim has said time and time again how dumb it is that the games industry does not counter program well. So I blame the industry not CoD fans even though its not my kind of game. The multi I see the appeal of, but I'll never be good enough to care, but I did not like the Single Player.

The Link Between Worlds hate was a harder bit to understand, Nintendo is so far off in their own space it does not really affect the situation I mentioned above. Only thing I can figure its insecure people who see something not dark gritty etc. being lauded and they loose their shit, because AAA games is comics from the 90s and if it does not seem like Alan Moore wrote it, its dragging the industry back. Guess how that story ended, not great for the comics industry.

This is not that new to me, I like party games and still get enjoyment when a new Mario Party comes out, people have been attacking me and calling me "part of the problem" for years. I just stopped paying attention and went back to playing the game I loved.

 

[Hunter Grant]

I just knew this was going to be this week's topic...

Meh I am easy.
I am sad one of my favorite games of the year did not get any awards. I also disliked that episode on Ludonarative Disonance simply because it was not my own issues, nor what I think the majority of the people that don't like Infinite were really thinking of as a problem in the game.
Otherwise I simply have to agree. If it brings people joy then its nice. Games are subjective. Only real rule I have is to NEVER even use words/phrases that may sound absolute or in any way condescending when comparing/talkig about a game;s quality. In other words for example one of the sentences in the last paragraph here:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/13/metro-last-light-review
It should not have been written like that. Too adamant on something extremely subjective. When thrown into the volatile internet... also the way it comes off is... kinda not good really... It also indirectly led to flamewars.

I have brought up the absolute language thing before too, its a great point that people will dismiss as too wishy washy in writing, but I agree.

 

[LaughingAtlas]

I laughed harder than I probably should have at that end bit, thank god for you, Jim.

I wonder if it ticks anyone off that I've rather enjoyed Jim's descent into madness (unless he's always been that way and I'm just slow to notice) since coming to the escapist?

 

[VikingKing]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but would there already be a Trope that covers this situation?

Otherwise someone needs to get to work on Joy Begets Anger right now. :3 To TV Tropes!