I said as soon as origin was announced people bitched not when the spyware thing was uncovered so that just isn't trueSonic Doctor said:
Jimquisition: Piracy - Trying To Kill It Makes It Stronger
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
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God another lame diatribe from Jim Sterling and not only that its so flawed its hard to listen too.
One simple method to prove you wrong.
If a company say Valve were to release their entire library for free yet make it so difficult to get it for free say have to send in your birth certificate, drivers license...etc Then at the same time make it easier than reaching down and scratching ones own balls to just purchase it...Which do you think will be more actively pursued by the consumer? thats right the free method Making comments of but not all pirates are in it for the freebies and some are forced into it by certain practices...yep about 0.0001% of them yes the rest are in it to get free games.
Piracy wont ever die theft has been alive and well since well the first microbes were stealing energy from other microbes to survive...that doesn't mean these companies can just sit there and ignore piracy and frankly concepts of make it easier to get ahold of your games, make it cheaper just doesn't work people will always go the free route...There's a reason people come up with concepts that the best things in life are free. In todays morally bankrupt world our children are believing that they deserve the illegally downloaded files and are on masse incapable of seeing the harm they are doing and yes I am a pirate and I fully admit it without making such stupid excuses as but but but the demos there is none, but but if it didn't have this drm...etc..etc I pirate cause I don't have the money to buy all the games I'm interest in and am unwilling to pay prices for older more rare games.
One simple method to prove you wrong.
If a company say Valve were to release their entire library for free yet make it so difficult to get it for free say have to send in your birth certificate, drivers license...etc Then at the same time make it easier than reaching down and scratching ones own balls to just purchase it...Which do you think will be more actively pursued by the consumer? thats right the free method Making comments of but not all pirates are in it for the freebies and some are forced into it by certain practices...yep about 0.0001% of them yes the rest are in it to get free games.
Piracy wont ever die theft has been alive and well since well the first microbes were stealing energy from other microbes to survive...that doesn't mean these companies can just sit there and ignore piracy and frankly concepts of make it easier to get ahold of your games, make it cheaper just doesn't work people will always go the free route...There's a reason people come up with concepts that the best things in life are free. In todays morally bankrupt world our children are believing that they deserve the illegally downloaded files and are on masse incapable of seeing the harm they are doing and yes I am a pirate and I fully admit it without making such stupid excuses as but but but the demos there is none, but but if it didn't have this drm...etc..etc I pirate cause I don't have the money to buy all the games I'm interest in and am unwilling to pay prices for older more rare games.
I bought Spore pre-release.
The DRM wasn't working...something in my uni accomodation was messing up the DRM and EA and for 2 days I could not play.
On the third day I visited my mate who was laughing her ass off and enjoying a pirated non-drm riddled version. I had to ask her help to crack into a game I bought legally because the legal bollocks piled on top of prevented me from actually playing it.
Spore wasn't all it was cracked up to be either...but without pirates I would have never of been able to play a game that I legally bought. A cruel bloody irony.
The DRM wasn't working...something in my uni accomodation was messing up the DRM and EA and for 2 days I could not play.
On the third day I visited my mate who was laughing her ass off and enjoying a pirated non-drm riddled version. I had to ask her help to crack into a game I bought legally because the legal bollocks piled on top of prevented me from actually playing it.
Spore wasn't all it was cracked up to be either...but without pirates I would have never of been able to play a game that I legally bought. A cruel bloody irony.
WilliamRLBaker said:
Well, the problem here is that the methods being used affect the legitimate purchusers, not the people who are pirating who ignore those things anyway. What's more attempts to do things like destroy the used game industry are direct attacks to prevent consumers from doing what they want to with their own purchused property. The industry is going so far as to insist that you give them money for nothing, and have no rights, they can take your money, and then revoke your right to use the product they are generously providing for any reason they want, including simply feeling like it. That's bloody ridiculous.
The thing about piracy is not a matter of whether it's theft or not, because it is, but the simple fact that it's existed since media has. The gaming industry, music industry, and other media based companies have grown into huge, multi-billion dollar empires despite it's prescence. They show constant growth despite it's existance. Sure, like any business there are companies that fail, layoffs, and everything else, but media is strong.
The issue isn't one where it's wrong for them to want to protect their property, but rather that it's wrong to do it in a way that takes away the rights of their customers, or intrudes on their enjoyment of the product. It would be one thing if the industy as a whole was in some kind of danger, but it's not.
I frequently liken the current battles as being a war betweeen gang bangers and the mafia. Both groups are deplorable, corrupt crooks, neither side being remotely right, with lots of innocent bystanders (the users) getting mowed down in the crossfire.
The thing is that what the gaming industry is doing is acting on behalf of very rich men who want to be even richer, that's their entire stake in this thing. As a result I have no real sympathy when they want to cut into the used game market, cram my system with DRM and Malware, or make me jump through hoops with codes. As things stand now if they can target the pirates without influancing the legitimate consumers, then go for it, otherwise they should just bugger off.
Understand though that my opinion would be differant if the industry as a whole (as opposed to a few companies within it) was not so massive and was in actual danger of dying due to things like used games and piracy... but that's not the case. It's not about them needing to take these kinds of actions to survive and profit, it's all about trying to see how much money they can wring out when they are already wallowing in more money than they could probably spend.
I used to pirate like a bastard when I was younger. I would just torrent any PC game I wanted, because I had no financial options of my own (all the money locked in a back account) and my parents weren't so keen on lending a credit card for some game over the net. Piracy was the only thing that could work for me, and it worked extremely well. DRM just wasn't that good back then and it hasn't really improved.
Eventually I pirated Half Life and then Half Life 2, and so on until I had the whole Orange Box. Realising HL was amazing, I was lead to download Steam and after a period of downloading only the free demos that were available, starting asking my brother if I could use his PayPal. Suddenly I was buying pretty much every current Valve game and by now, since I've got my own PayPal account, I've got an absurdly large library.
The point is, it wasn't a lack of money or willingness to pay for games that lead me to torrent, it was the fact that retail was far too hard and my cash was effectively inaccessible. Steam solved that problem for me, and now Valve has ALL OF MY MONEY. If you show me a game that has GFWL in it, I won't even bother after going throught the trial that was just signing up for it.
tl;dr For me (and maybe a couple of other people out there like me) it was never a money problem. DRM didn't stop me torrenting. Steam did.
Eventually I pirated Half Life and then Half Life 2, and so on until I had the whole Orange Box. Realising HL was amazing, I was lead to download Steam and after a period of downloading only the free demos that were available, starting asking my brother if I could use his PayPal. Suddenly I was buying pretty much every current Valve game and by now, since I've got my own PayPal account, I've got an absurdly large library.
The point is, it wasn't a lack of money or willingness to pay for games that lead me to torrent, it was the fact that retail was far too hard and my cash was effectively inaccessible. Steam solved that problem for me, and now Valve has ALL OF MY MONEY. If you show me a game that has GFWL in it, I won't even bother after going throught the trial that was just signing up for it.
tl;dr For me (and maybe a couple of other people out there like me) it was never a money problem. DRM didn't stop me torrenting. Steam did.
This issue seems like it might have much to do with the omnipresent "maturity" and "image problem" issues in videogame culture. I wonder if the people at the top of the money-chain in game production really understand that they have customers.
Producers of other media do; maybe they didn't always, maybe back in the fifties, record store owners dreaded stocking any of that newfangled rock-and-roll, afraid some ne'er-do-well would shoplift it. I wonder if that was a step in the process. But now they must know that the people who enjoy their products enough to keep coming back for more are adults, people with jobs and busy lives, people who demand respect.
Despite demographic research, the producers of videogames might be locked into thinking that they're catering to a bunch of kiddies, and kiddies need to be supervised. They need to be given discipline and boundaries, since they have no self-control of their own. And piracy happens when those kids get a little too rowdy. SOPA showed that many powerful people utterly failed to understand piracy as "a regrettable economic issue that can be understood and countered," viewing it instead as "naughty kids that need to be punished."
For a long time, they were probably very right.
When Jim Sterling first appeared on The Escapist, I thought he was a whiny kid who commanded no respect. I don't anymore, and these recent videos really hammer home why. He's changed for the better, and why not. So should we all.
I think the same thing about the way I was even a year ago: what a whiny idiot.
I hope these revelations reach producers; when they realize they're dealing with better people than they think, these misinformed, paranoid and punitive counter-piracy measures may fade away.
Producers of other media do; maybe they didn't always, maybe back in the fifties, record store owners dreaded stocking any of that newfangled rock-and-roll, afraid some ne'er-do-well would shoplift it. I wonder if that was a step in the process. But now they must know that the people who enjoy their products enough to keep coming back for more are adults, people with jobs and busy lives, people who demand respect.
Despite demographic research, the producers of videogames might be locked into thinking that they're catering to a bunch of kiddies, and kiddies need to be supervised. They need to be given discipline and boundaries, since they have no self-control of their own. And piracy happens when those kids get a little too rowdy. SOPA showed that many powerful people utterly failed to understand piracy as "a regrettable economic issue that can be understood and countered," viewing it instead as "naughty kids that need to be punished."
For a long time, they were probably very right.
When Jim Sterling first appeared on The Escapist, I thought he was a whiny kid who commanded no respect. I don't anymore, and these recent videos really hammer home why. He's changed for the better, and why not. So should we all.
I think the same thing about the way I was even a year ago: what a whiny idiot.
I hope these revelations reach producers; when they realize they're dealing with better people than they think, these misinformed, paranoid and punitive counter-piracy measures may fade away.
Didn't Steam sales double once again this past christmas sale? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115085-Steam-Sales-Double-Again-in-2011] Obviously they're doing a good job fighting pirates; so why is this not catching on with publishers? How is seven consecutive years of sale figures doubling not enticing enough? Will all my sentences in this post really be questions?
I'm always mystified as to why games companies don't learn from the mistakes of the film and music industry, for all their huffing, puffing, congress lobbying ways have they managed to eradicate piracy?
It's time companies accepted that some people will always pirate, doesn't matter if you give them a free pony and dancing girls with a game, they'll still nab a free copy. In the meantime, like Jim says, punishing the people who pay to play games and giving them an inferior product experience to the pirated one - then being surprised when more people pirate?
It's not rocket science!
It's time companies accepted that some people will always pirate, doesn't matter if you give them a free pony and dancing girls with a game, they'll still nab a free copy. In the meantime, like Jim says, punishing the people who pay to play games and giving them an inferior product experience to the pirated one - then being surprised when more people pirate?
It's not rocket science!
Game Publisher Executives aren't going to get it until they get the same front-door protests that the Bank of America execs got 2 years ago during 2010. Hundreds of people stood shoulder to shoulder and griefed the very people's homes that made the decisions and called the shots.
If gamers aren't as committed to doing this as those protesters were, then we really deserve the DRM and online passes they foist on us. If it makes us uncomfortable, then we start making them uncomfortable. Simple as that.
E3 would be the perfect venue to kick start this movement. Mobs rush the stage of the EA and Ubisoft conferences. I can already hear the common shouts:
"D-R-M, go to hell!" or "No-more-D-R-M. NO-MORE-ONLINE-PASS." SOMETHING! Anything to make them acknowledge how pissed off we are! It isn't enough that we choose not to buy their stupid games, because there are too many indifferent gamers to begin with, and those with not enough time to get out the message. They need to sweat and fidget and feel embarrassed and humiliated for getting away with this "100-strings-attached" free market philosophy.
Man I'm angry. It reminds me of some motto that some online show uses on their home page whenever there's a new episode... oh yeah.
If gamers aren't as committed to doing this as those protesters were, then we really deserve the DRM and online passes they foist on us. If it makes us uncomfortable, then we start making them uncomfortable. Simple as that.
E3 would be the perfect venue to kick start this movement. Mobs rush the stage of the EA and Ubisoft conferences. I can already hear the common shouts:
"D-R-M, go to hell!" or "No-more-D-R-M. NO-MORE-ONLINE-PASS." SOMETHING! Anything to make them acknowledge how pissed off we are! It isn't enough that we choose not to buy their stupid games, because there are too many indifferent gamers to begin with, and those with not enough time to get out the message. They need to sweat and fidget and feel embarrassed and humiliated for getting away with this "100-strings-attached" free market philosophy.
Man I'm angry. It reminds me of some motto that some online show uses on their home page whenever there's a new episode... oh yeah.
Just need to rant on this topic. F**k Ubisoft with a rusty spoon.
Bought anno 2070, and their multiple layers of DRM keep breaking so I actually haven't been able to play it. Seems the only way I'll ever get to play it is to crack it. I think piracy because you want free stuff is wrong, but when cracks and piracy become the only way of actually playing a game, you must have less brains than a rock to realise that you are encouraging it.
Bought anno 2070, and their multiple layers of DRM keep breaking so I actually haven't been able to play it. Seems the only way I'll ever get to play it is to crack it. I think piracy because you want free stuff is wrong, but when cracks and piracy become the only way of actually playing a game, you must have less brains than a rock to realise that you are encouraging it.
WilliamRLBaker said:
actually, jim is more correct. I dont doubt there are plenty of people like you. however piracy isnt always as cut and dry as ... click button .... get game ... movie... porn .... whatever you fancy.
maybe you get a virus instead that toasts your computer
maybe no one seeds what you want , in your language or at all
maybe the thing you want is available but is either lower quality or missing features.
maybe you use megaupload ... and are now fucked......
but that is for everything not just games.
my point being is that , yes there are people (YOU) who are willing to accept those flaws to get the free stuff. But they are flaws. And many people (ME) don't feel like spending hours dicking around the internet to find a seeded torrent , or a torrent that is not a virus. For that reason alone is why I buy steam. it is a click of a button or two and bam game installing , things rarely ever get so simple.
I am just getting around to watching the pirate episodes you have up and I agree with most of what you are saying, but I do have one question for you. If the best way to eliminate piracy is to remove DRM and the like why was The Witcher 2 pirated so much? They removed the DRM for customer convenience and it ended up that about four copies were pirated to every one sold.Jim Sterling said:
Why do you think this happened if it is indeed the security systems that are making people feel that they can get better service from pirates?
netflix would reduce piracy if it was freaking available. when netflix states "ahh you fithy pirate country we will not sell you products" that pretty much what forces us to pirate it.
and i agree totally with you for companies encouraging piracy.
P.S. capcha: funny farm
and i agree totally with you for companies encouraging piracy.
P.S. capcha: funny farm