Jimquisition: Rape vs. Murder

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
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Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
Father Time said:
medv4380 said:
You covered the topic very well. I was hesitant to even watch given the title.

In terms of Rape in Games I think it boils down to context. I think the titles that where mentioned that the player participated in the Rape should only have AO ratings, and should be rejected by the community as they have been.
AO should be reserved for porn, you can have rape in a game or a movie and have it not be porn.
No AO is intended to be the Movie equivalent of NC-17 which because it's normally a death sentence for a movie results in it being cut down to an R rating, and as the MPAA states
An NC-17 rated motion picture is one that, in the view of the Rating Board, most parents would consider patently too adult for their children 17 and under. No children will be admitted. NC-17 does not mean "obscene" or "pornographic" in the common or legal meaning of those words, and should not be construed as a negative judgment in any sense. The rating simply signals that the content is appropriate only for an adult audience. An NC-17 rating can be based on violence, sex, aberrational behavior, drug abuse or any other element that most parents would consider too strong and therefore off-limits for viewing by their children
M is the equivalent of an R rating and means that if an adult thinks your mature enough for it they can let you watch.
You should be quoting the ESRB not the MPAA. But there are movies with rapists in them that don't get NC-17 rating.
How about Manhunt 2 having an AO rating. Rape is Strong Sexual Content therefore it should be an AO rating.

and to rub some salt in your wounds
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.
If you cant see how you edit a rape scene so you actually don't show what's going on there really is no helping you.
Gta has strong sexual content and it'd be easy to edit the pick up hooker scene to be rape. Just force her into the car, play the car rocking animation and add screams.
GTA was AO because of Hot Coffee, and became M because of Cold Coffee. Or did you miss out on Hot Coffee?
Cold coffee gta still had prostitutes and offscreen sex.

And clockwork orange had a graphic rape scene (see it sometime), still an R rating.
Again their is no helping you if you don't understand how editing is done so you can see it.

As for Clockwork Orange it was before NC-17 existed and was originally rated X. Your R version is edited down.
Cut the condescending crap. They can cut away when they show rape, so it'll probably still get an m.
If they cut away properly the "rape" only occurs in your mind because you never see it happen, and for all you know it didn't.
You can't be serious, there are many ways to indicate something is occurring without seeing it. You can have screams, a woman shouting no or the characters talking about it. Or the game can flat out say a rape has occurred.
I'm sure your imagination treats you and people like Brian Banks very well, and all the money Gibson got because of it.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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DiMono said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
DiMono said:
The other thing that you didn't touch on is that in a video game, killing someone is generally very fast. You shoot them in the head, and down they go. You cut off their limbs, down they go. You fight with someone, maybe tussle with them, snap their neck and down they go. You do it quickly, and then it's over. Rape is a prolonged event. Murder in video games can be easily discarded as irrelevant because it's done and over with very quickly, but rape is something you'd have to stay focused on and actively continue to do. I'll be honest, if I was playing a game that required me to rape someone in order to progress the plot, I'd snap the disc in half and throw it out. Not only is it something I'm not prepared to do, but I don't want anyone else to have to do it either.

Same thing in multiplayer games. If I'm playing Diablo and someone kills me, I restart in town and carry on. I entered the game knowing that I might get killed, and it happened, and yes it kind of sucks but in the end it's not really that bad. If I'm playing a game and another character actually rapes me, it means the other player has to actively continue doing things to me, and I have to sit there and watch it happen, or else try to resist. Again, being killed is pretty much the way of things and it's fast, but being raped is almost exactly the opposite of that.

The irony, of course, is that the word rape has been firmly ensconced in the gamer vernacular for quite some time. Offensive or not, it's there, and odds are it always will be. And that only makes the conversation all the more confusing and awkward.
So mass murder is better than rape simply because it's quicker?
In the context of video games, yes.
Cause it's fictional characters doing fictional things, right? So fictional rape happening to fictional characters?

Rape should be avoided because it's a bad narrative device. Do it to much one way, and it's porn (like Rapelay) do it the other way and it's like one of those bad lifetime movies from the 90s.
 

Crimsom Storm

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I'm sorry... but it's completely hypocritical to demonize rape over death. I will never view rape as being more evil than death. In death, there IS nothing else, it's the ultimate end, the cardinal sin. I figured the point that would be made with this video is that they're both evil, shut your mouths, they're just fantasy. What I ended up with was an 8 minute rant of why it's better to kill someone than to rape.

I'll tell you this, I'd be more frightened of someone that fantasizes of murder over rape. It's not because I'm a guy, it's because you're sitting there dreaming about mutilating someone, causing them pain, taking their right to life from them. At least in rape they're still alive. Emotionally and psychologically traumatized, but they're still alive. They still have friends, they can still pursue goals, they can still LIVE. I will not defend rape as being acceptable though, but I do believe they're both just as evil.

Yes, there ARE victims in murder and death. It's the dead corpse laying in front of you. That father will never see his children again. That woman will have to be laid to rest by her parents, something no parent should ever have to do. You're forgetting that death also effects EVERYONE around the person that was killed. Rape? It leaves one person traumatized too, but killing rips through family, friends, co-workers, everyone this person knew, and the fact you try to make death far more acceptable than rape is terrifying.

It's exactly why us, as a people, suddenly believe that sex is far more evil than showing someone getting their brains blown out on TV. God help you if a nipple shows, but if someone snaps their leg, hey hey! It's so damn funny! A game about crime and murder like Grand Theft Auto is ok... but add "Hot Coffee", and suddenly it's Adults Only? No. No. I find it so hard to put into words just how wrong that is, yet it's the exact same thing I always see. If you murder in real life, then you'll get a lesser sentence than if you raped. You don't have to join a list of known murderers, and tell your neighborhood that you killed someone.

Well, screw that. Me? I've been playing violent games since I could pick up a controller, all the way back into the NES days. I stopped the Alien Bomb at Mt. Demonhead for crying out loud. But so help me, I will never try to say death and murder are not lesser crimes, much less more acceptable than rape, and the fact that you find a villain that slaughters and brutalizes to be stomachable, but add rape and suddenly you're all "oh that's too far!"? I do believe there's something much more wrong with you than the people playing Rapelay.

I have never played Rapelay, I am not a rapist. I am a gamer, however, sick of seeing our bodies and sexuality demonized, yet violence and death embraced and beloved. Take that as you will, and tell me about how wrong I am, just as much as you want. It's just you grasping at the moral highground, trying to preach how evil someone else is, when you partake in something just as twisted. Me? I can live with being called twisted. I know who and what I am, and accept it. It's a shame you can't, though.
 

mike1921

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Treblaine said:
mike1921 said:
No. Statutory rape *CAN* be a grey area for older teenagers either side of age-of-consent but that is NOT THE ISSUE UNDER DISCUSSION. And it is disingenuous to bring that up in the context of rape being unambiguously a bad thing to do. He exploits the unintended confusion between "rape" and "statutory rape" where you don't want to trivialise either but the scenarios and severity are all so extremely different.
Yes but that's not forced, the "forced" part of your statement already excludes statutory rape, making the part where you're saying "adult" question as that distinction is unnecessary. You are already removing the grey area by saying
By rape, it's clear Jim (and I) were talking about adults forcing other adults to engage in sexual intercourse. There is no grey area between that rape and sex.
so the choice of words that
By rape, it's clear Jim (and I) were talking about adults forcing other adults to engage in sexual intercourse. There is no grey area between that rape and sex.
is very weird
I really do not appreciate how Aardvaarkman has tried to hijack this discussion into the irrelevant ambiguities of age of consent with older teenagers in close-age parity in a discussion about the fictional depiction of unambiguously forced rape. It is just so transparently disingenuous and trollish of Aardvaarkman.
You sorta brought it upon yourself with that remarkably poor wording choice. Like I still can't get why you wrote it like that.
It's obvious what I meant, but if you quote mine me to take spurious interpretations regardless of context then of course it is going to appear like I'm saying something "weird". There is no way, no way AT ALL you can reasonably and honestly infer I mean the horrific crime of rape can only committed against adults, how monumentally disingenuous and convoluted of BOTH of you. Only by deliberately discarding all inference and using the most narrow semantic interpretation of a sentence could you do that.
No , I know what you meant. I'm saying the wording was awful and that's why aardvaarkman went on this tangent.
Aardvaarkman repeatedly ignored the "forced" part and went of on a tangent of equivalence with statutory rape for no reason other than pedantic exploitation of semantics. THAT is weird.
indeed it is

Plus rape or sex involving children wanders into the area of child pornography laws, there is just no reason to go there. Jim and I are talking about video games depicting rape involving adults as it is actually LEGAL to depict that. Bring children and sex together in and suddenly you've got the FBI, Interpol and all that bullshit. For the love of Jebus, I'm not saying the horrific crime of rape couldn't be perpetrated against a child, I'm just saying the depiction of it in video games in just plain NOT up for discussion here! I have made that clear from the very start.

Get that. Is that clear? Child Pornography laws are EXTREMELY strict and unforgiving, even with depiction very crude CGI sex or a simple drawing. It's just NOT part of the discussion.

CATEGORICALLY you CANNOT have graphic pedophilic rape in a video game as it would be banned as child pornography and the producers face some sort of prosecution. So there is no point in going there and that law is not changing any time soon and I don't see the point in arguing it.

Case closed. This has gone way WAY off topic to spite me repeatedly telling both of you to get back on topic and not go to this area.
Yet no one I know of has been put in any legal trouble for rapelay. I hear that authorities only really crack down on fictional child porn (in America) is when you also have a ton of real child porn and they wanna increase the charges. Although maybe there'd be more of an issue with a western publisher doing it.
Rapelay is probably the whole reason this video exists to begin with. The description to this episode mentions rapelay, the facebook announcement for the video has a picture from rapelay. Rapelay massively increased the talk on the matter for a long time, with one obviously child character and one who's probably an underaged highschooler. This video likely wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the infamous game where you rape at least one, probably two underaged girls and their mother.
 

Treblaine

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mike1921 said:
Yet no one I know of has been put in any legal trouble for rapelay. I hear that authorities only really crack down on fictional child porn (in America) is when you also have a ton of real child porn and they wanna increase the charges. Although maybe there'd be more of an issue with a western publisher doing it.
Rapelay is probably the whole reason this video exists to begin with. The description to this episode mentions rapelay, the facebook announcement for the video has a picture from rapelay. Rapelay massively increased the talk on the matter for a long time, with one obviously child character and one who's probably an underaged highschooler. This video likely wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the infamous game where you rape at least one, probably two underaged girls and their mother.
Well your perception of poor enforcement of the law for an obscure game doesn't mean the law isn't there. And the risk of ot being enforced on a more high profile release.

The thing is most people have not played rapelay and it is not common knowledge that there is a pre-pubescent rape victim. That was never brought up and in all the reference images the older teenage girl was depicted that could be an adult. Throughout american media it is well established that a high schooler can be over the age of consent, i.e. the American Pie, Buffy, most high school dramas. Rapelay was used as mainly a visual example of a rape "game" simply for lack of a better example, I don't think anyone has any intention of tackling paedophilia as there is NO DISCUSSION there. That is totally not a non-discussion and it is so illegal or at least legally tenuous to depict.

The aspect of pedophilia in Rapelay is NOT the topic of discussion as that is an open ans shut case and likely the reason it is explicitly banned in the UK.
 

LHZA

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I can't and won't watch movies or anything that has rape in it, and I will not play a video game that has rape in it. However, I believe any medium has the right to tackle the issue, but when doing so, they must stress it is an act of violence, not a sexual act, and portray it from the victims perspective so the audience can understand their horror. I truelly believe it is immoral otherwise. Any piece of art, whether it be a video game or movie, that handles the subject as I described has my respect, even though I won't go near them. That's just me personally though. You can. It's cool.
 

ElPatron

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I get the part about the genders not being equal in terms of rape statistics, but I got really rustled when Jim said that women aren't physically capable of raping.

That assumes that there is no female-on-female rape (our statistics can be underrated because it's possible that the majority of cases are not reported due to shame) and that all men are 250 pound beasts with full control on their erections.

Death makes you die. There is a lot of "murder" in videogames, not not every kill means murder. Many times there is no malice involved, just fighting back.

LHZA said:
I can't and won't watch movies or anything that has rape in it, and I will not play a video game that has rape in it.
Spoiler alert, I won't get into too many details but based on that description don't watch/read The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo if you haven't yet. I belched the contents of my stomach into my mouth reading a book, which was a new experience to me. I love the Millenium series but I wish someone had at least warned me.
 

mike1921

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Treblaine said:
mike1921 said:
Yet no one I know of has been put in any legal trouble for rapelay. I hear that authorities only really crack down on fictional child porn (in America) is when you also have a ton of real child porn and they wanna increase the charges. Although maybe there'd be more of an issue with a western publisher doing it.
Rapelay is probably the whole reason this video exists to begin with. The description to this episode mentions rapelay, the facebook announcement for the video has a picture from rapelay. Rapelay massively increased the talk on the matter for a long time, with one obviously child character and one who's probably an underaged highschooler. This video likely wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the infamous game where you rape at least one, probably two underaged girls and their mother.
Well your perception of poor enforcement of the law for an obscure game doesn't mean the law isn't there. And the risk of ot being enforced on a more high profile release.
The thing is most people have not played rapelay and it is not common knowledge that there is a pre-pubescent rape victim. That was never brought up and in all the reference images the older teenage girl was depicted that could be an adult.
it is fairly common knowledge. Like, look at the cover
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rapelay.jpg (Not a tasteful image, possibly NSFW). The girl on the right is obviously under-aged, you are obviously going to rape her if you haven't already.
Throughout american media it is well established that a high schooler can be over the age of consent, i.e. the American Pie, Buffy, most high school dramas. Rapelay was used as mainly a visual example of a rape "game" simply for lack of a better example, I don't think anyone has any intention of tackling paedophilia as there is NO DISCUSSION there. That is totally not a non-discussion and it is so illegal or at least legally tenuous to depict.

The aspect of pedophilia in Rapelay is NOT the topic of discussion as that is an open ans shut case and likely the reason it is explicitly banned in the UK.
no, there is no discussion there and there is no reason to chop it off and make a distinction at all in this context. It's as if the topic of inter-racial rape came up somehow, let's say as a scare tactic and an example on something that could be put in as hate speech in a game that should be illegal, and you said that jim was obviously talking about white on white rape (Although what you said was MUCH, MUCH more understandable , and it's much less understandable to think that you meant something malicious by it), he was talking about actual rape in general and cutting it any more than to exclude consensual statuatory rape just seems unnecessary.
 

Treblaine

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mike1921 said:
The thing is most people have not played rapelay and it is not common knowledge that there is a pre-pubescent rape victim. That was never brought up and in all the reference images the older teenage girl was depicted that could be an adult.
it is fairly common knowledge. Like, look at the cover
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rapelay.jpg (Not a tasteful image, possibly NSFW). The girl on the right is obviously under-aged, you are obviously going to rape her if you haven't already.
Throughout american media it is well established that a high schooler can be over the age of consent, i.e. the American Pie, Buffy, most high school dramas. Rapelay was used as mainly a visual example of a rape "game" simply for lack of a better example, I don't think anyone has any intention of tackling paedophilia as there is NO DISCUSSION there. That is totally not a non-discussion and it is so illegal or at least legally tenuous to depict.

The aspect of pedophilia in Rapelay is NOT the topic of discussion as that is an open ans shut case and likely the reason it is explicitly banned in the UK.
no, there is no discussion there and there is no reason to chop it off and make a distinction at all in this context. It's as if the topic of inter-racial rape came up somehow, let's say as a scare tactic and an example on something that could be put in as hate speech in a game that should be illegal, and you said that jim was obviously talking about white on white rape (Although what you said was MUCH, MUCH more understandable), he was talking about actual rape in general and cutting it any more than to exclude consensual statuatory rape just seems unnecessary.
I didn't see that cover in any media relating to Jim's video, nor anywhere was the paedophilia aspect covered. It remains irrelevant. Stop trying to steer this off topic.

There is no discussion in any hypothetical inter-racial aspect because only racists make the distinction of different races having sex. It's utterly trivial to me. Interracial sex is not illegal to depict. Child sex is. Your comparison is utterly irrelevant. Rapelay is not the entire crux of Jim's argument with was NOT specific to Rapelay, even if stills were used in promotion of this video. You are inferring tenuous and meaningless links.

Why are you trying to make this a discussion about pedophilia? Just drop it. You are inferring something which was NOT in the OP's video, you had to go OUTSIDE his video to get some tangential link to underage sex.
 

mike1921

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Treblaine said:
mike1921 said:
The thing is most people have not played rapelay and it is not common knowledge that there is a pre-pubescent rape victim. That was never brought up and in all the reference images the older teenage girl was depicted that could be an adult.
it is fairly common knowledge. Like, look at the cover
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rapelay.jpg (Not a tasteful image, possibly NSFW). The girl on the right is obviously under-aged, you are obviously going to rape her if you haven't already.
Throughout american media it is well established that a high schooler can be over the age of consent, i.e. the American Pie, Buffy, most high school dramas. Rapelay was used as mainly a visual example of a rape "game" simply for lack of a better example, I don't think anyone has any intention of tackling paedophilia as there is NO DISCUSSION there. That is totally not a non-discussion and it is so illegal or at least legally tenuous to depict.

The aspect of pedophilia in Rapelay is NOT the topic of discussion as that is an open ans shut case and likely the reason it is explicitly banned in the UK.
no, there is no discussion there and there is no reason to chop it off and make a distinction at all in this context. It's as if the topic of inter-racial rape came up somehow, let's say as a scare tactic and an example on something that could be put in as hate speech in a game that should be illegal, and you said that jim was obviously talking about white on white rape (Although what you said was MUCH, MUCH more understandable), he was talking about actual rape in general and cutting it any more than to exclude consensual statuatory rape just seems unnecessary.
I didn't see that cover in any media relating to Jim's video, nor anywhere was the paedophilia aspect covered. It remains irrelevant. Stop trying to steer this off topic.

There is no discussion in any hypothetical inter-racial aspect because only racists make the distinction of different races having sex. It's utterly trivial to me. Interracial sex is not illegal to depict. Child sex is. Your comparison is utterly irrelevant. Rapelay is not the entire crux of Jim's argument with was NOT specific to Rapelay, even if stills were used in promotion of this video. You are inferring tenuous and meaningless links.

Why are you trying to make this a discussion about pedophilia? Just drop it. You are inferring something which was NOT in the OP's video, you had to go OUTSIDE his video to get some tangential link to underage sex.
The cover was in jim's video. 1:26-1:28.

I'm not trying to make the discussion about pedophillia, I'm trying to explain why your mis-statement caused it.There should be no specific mentions of pedophillia either, it's a distinction that serves no purpose in this context from any other rape. It's not about adults raping adults, it's about people raping people. I'm saying the distinction is as meaningless as the hypothetical inter-racial aspect.
 

Grin Grimhammer

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Been watching these for a while, first time actually making a post on one. No real comment on any of the hot back-and-forth going on right now: Thoughtful speculation on some, differing opinion on others. Just wanted to say, while it may not have covered ALL the moral intricacies, ALL the specific scenarios, etc, etc., I felt this video to be an exemplary eight minutes on such broad and tricky subject matter.

I came to this site for Zero Punctuation and all the shenanigans and critiques Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw has to offer on video games. But it's stuff like this in Jimquisition (along with the lighter topics and other material such a Movie Bob) that compels me to stay and keep watching. This video has verbalized and changed my outlook on this topic. Thank you very much for creating it, and I look forward to your future videos! Forgive my intrusion in the discussion.
 

matsugawa

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The self-defense angle, I must admit, while glaringly obvious, was something I never thought about as opposed to the "murder victims literally don't have to live with being killed ex post facto" dichotomy that usually gets brought up. It always irks me when I hear gamers use "rape" when they mean "got beaten" yet when I call them out on it, I freeze when they ask why "I got killed out there." or somesuch is any better, because it sounds like a trap to me, like I can't answer it without glorifying or trivializing murder. Officially, neither one should be analogized to just losing at a video game, but what was wrong with leaving it at "killing?" Why the upgrade?

Thank you, Jim. Honestly.
 

Treblaine

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mike1921 said:
The cover was in jim's video. 1:26-1:28.

I'm not trying to make the discussion about pedophillia, I'm trying to explain why your mis-statement caused it.There should be no specific mentions of pedophillia either, it's a distinction that serves no purpose in this context from any other rape. It's not about adults raping adults, it's about people raping people. I'm saying the distinction is as meaningless as the hypothetical inter-racial aspect.
You still haven't explained how my "mis-statement" caused anything. Before I even said that Aardvarkman had jumped in with the derailing "there is a grey area between statutory rape and rape", bringing in the issue of child-sex. Which is NOT what this discussion needs AT ALL and an entirely semantic ambiguity anyway!

You are the one endlessly trying to bring up that rapelay had a possibly underage victim when that is not actually pointed out in the show. That cover shown for 2 seconds, no wonder I don't remember it, and no way enough time to tell that one of them was underage with the highly stylised faces and how her body proportions were not visible. OP's video remains to NOT cover the issue of under-age sex.

"I'm saying the distinction is as meaningless"

The distinction is one that YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY BROUGHT UP of the child aspect. Now its "people raping people" is another contrived attempt at getting child rape included (people is both adults and children) in the discussion. No. Stop it. Just please stop this. Drop this derailing tangent of trying to include the depiction of child rape in games, You have been TOLD it is a non-issue as it is totally illegal so you can't even go there.

This thread is tricky enough and you are going there, THERE of all places. Have you NO TACT AT ALL!!?!?
 

AlphaLackey

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I brought this up in the FB comments, but since this seems to be where the action is, cross-posting it is.

The answer to the reason for the double standard simple: outside of prison populations, rape victims are primarily female and murder victims are primarily male. As proof of this being the source of the double standard, consider that it is acceptable in our society's entertainment to "play rape for laughs" when the victim is male, and becomes unacceptable to "play murder for laughs" (or even sufficiently brutal violence) when the victims are female.

Think the Vince Vaughn rape scene in Wedding Crashers, or even the statutory rape of a pre-teen child in the latest Adam Sandler "movie". Could you possibly reverse the genders and play the scenes for laughs?

Likewise, think of the extreme hand-wringing over the "uneasiness" many reviewers had with Hit Girl eating a few punches in Kick-Ass, not seeming to notice that the male lead (himself still a child) was absolutely brutalized in that movie (graphically stabbed, hit by a car, tied in a chair and beaten senseless, pummeled in a 4-on-1 beating, etc.)

Incidentally, Jim, your belief that boys are not (or were not) told "not to rape" might be a cultural difference, but as a child of the 80s in North America, I most certainly WAS told "not to rape". "No means no" was a very common trend and certainly visible in culture aimed at youths.
 

Phoenixlight

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Wow very good video, I think you're right on pretty much all accounts and feel like you've managed to go through a lot of the reasons why rape is not and should never be accepted.
 

Aardvaarkman

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DiMono said:
mike1921 said:
DiMono said:
Aardvaarkman said:
[. . .] it's rather strange that you define rape as "forcing other adults to engage in sexual intercourse" - there's nothing about rape that requires the victim to "engage in sexual intercourse" - it's physical violence that is forced upon them - not something that requires engagement in anything sexual.
Actually, yes, rape is all about sexual intercourse. Rape is the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. Forced sex is the tool by which the rapist asserts their dominance, which allows them to get off on imposing their will upon the victim. By definition, if there's no sex involved, it's not rape. [https://www.google.ca/search?q=definition+of+rape]
his problem is in the "engage in" part, not the sexual intercourse.
See, I don't think that's the case. Because he specifically said "it's physical violence that is forced upon them - not something that requires engagement in anything sexual." If you were correct, then the point he would have argued would have been force vs "engage in", but instead he argued sex vs. not sex.
Actually, the "engage in" bit is key to my argument. The point being that rape is a non-consensual activity, one that the victim has no choice in. They don't "engage in" sexual activity, it is forced upon them.

This brings up a higher-order problem - what is "sexual" and why is "sexual violence" different than other forms of violence? Does sex mean it involves genitals? What about breasts? People are sexually aroused by all manner of things. Some people have fetishes about shoes. Does that mean that shoes belong in a special category so they should be protected from shoe rapists?

The whole foundation of this discussion/argument lies on shaky ground when sexuality is mentioned. There are no clear definitions of sex. Our laws and our language surrounding sex are completely inadequate. One needs only to look at pornography to see that almost anything can be considered as a sexual object or subject.

Therefore, rape is very complicated. Many legal definitions of rape include acts that are considered consensual sex by the participants. Similarly, there are legal definitions of rape that exclude forced sexual violation.

In my opinion, "rape" is a type of physical assault. The fact that it's linked to "sex" is a historical artefact, because it's almost impossible to define sex. In previous historical eras, sex was much more narrowly defined. But today, sexual activity is much more widely acknowledged to encompass a huge variety of activities. For examples, in 2012, most people think that it's possible for two women to have sexual intercourse. In earlier times, that would not be considered sex because it didn't involve a penis.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Treblaine said:
You still haven't explained how my "mis-statement" caused anything. Before I even said that Aardvarkman had jumped in with the derailing "there is a grey area between statutory rape and rape", bringing in the issue of child-sex. Which is NOT what this discussion needs AT ALL and an entirely semantic ambiguity anyway!
Why do you refer to it as "child-sex" rather than child rape?

Semantics are rather important here, especially given that Jim offers no definition of "rape" in the video. The concept of rape is legally and culturally varied. It's pretty important to specify those terms. You seem to consider rape as only a violent act, and you earlier mentioned that in this discussion it was only considered to be the rape of adults.

My question is why you only consider rape in such narrow terms, when the reality is that it's a lot more complex. Rape isn't just people being held at knife-point and being brutalised.

Treblaine said:
Now its "people raping people" is another contrived attempt at getting child rape included (people is both adults and children) in the discussion. No. Stop it. Just please stop this. Drop this derailing tangent of trying to include the depiction of child rape in games, You have been TOLD it is a non-issue as it is totally illegal so you can't even go there.
Why would the definition of rape exclude the rape of children? You say it's a non-issue because it's illegal - but the rape of adults is also illegal. You're really not making any sense here.
 

Weentastic

New member
Dec 9, 2011
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I'm kinda surprised Jim didn't really address how rape is usually portrayed as enjoyable to the perpetrator. He kinda touched on it or maybe implied it, but to me its one of the most notable reasons why killing in a video game is more palatable than rape. Of course someone could enjoy murder too, and that person seems sleazier than someone who does it out of necessity or apathy, but when I think about it I usually think of someone who is trying to satisfy an urge, in other words, doing it for enjoyment. Also take a look at this for some comic relief: http://www.cracked.com/video_18193_white-people-rapping-about-rape-what-could-go-wrong-5Bdnc5D.html
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Father Time said:
The guy I was quoting said it comes from Christianity/Judaism. I was correcting him.
You were being needlessly pedantic, and since the source was Judaism and not Christianity in that instance, you weren't even being properly pedantic.

The point still remains that when people say "thou shalt not kill," it is almost certainly a reference to the Hebrew/Christian faith.

Please, practice pedantry properly.