Jimquisition: Shadiness of Mordor

Jan 27, 2011
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Youtube, you GOTTA fix that copyright ID system. This is getting abused to hell and back now.

Seriously, they content IDd any review that didn't sign a deal with them to "convince people to go buy it"?

I......Dear God, that's awful. Just...Jeez...
 

Shjade

Chaos in Jeans
Feb 2, 2010
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Jimothy Sterling said:
WarHamster40K said:
Having heard about this, it makes me doubt the validity of the previous coverage I'd seen of this game. It may be legitimately good, it might not be. Given that there's language that essentially says "make sure you mention this and keep it good (or else)", I have no way of knowing with certainty just how much of a reviewer's opinion is his/her own and how much of it is done to appease their contract. I want this industry to succeed, but I don't want it done with Stepford Wives-esque complacency. "Everything's fine, dear. Here, have another AAA game..."
That is the saddest part. The game genuinely IS good enough to deserve a lot of the praise I saw. Shitty tactics like this undermine the goodwill that a game is quite capable of earning on its own. In some ways, I'm more saddened by a good game having its qualities doubted than I am by a bad game being lied about to make it look good. It's just a waste of natural credit.
Pretty much the reaction I had. This video's disappointing in the extreme because it's legitimately a fun game. Heck, the biggest downside I give it is being on the short side (comparatively speaking) - 100% completion, all achievements etc., in just over 30 hours when I'm not the kind of player who usually 100% completes games. But hey, 30 hours before I finished everything and now I'm starting a new game to try going kamikaze for more deaths (the Nemesis system sadly feels a little...irrelevant when you don't die much)? It's certainly a good game in my view.

So why would they do this stupid bullshit? :| Bleh.
 

Sanunes

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Mar 18, 2011
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When hearing about this "agreement" I prefer blackmail myself. I decided no matter how much I am looking for a new game, I won't buy this at full price, for it throws everything I have heard and seen about the game into question.
 

Elijah Newton

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Sep 17, 2008
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Wow - hey, thanks for this, Jim. (to you, god, whomever deserves credit) I can't say I'm incensed or even particularly surprised but it was a great reminder of what's going on behind the scenes of the videos I potentially use to choose games.

Not to be weird, but how then did you get to make this video? Is there a difference between how you put this together and what TB did? (apologies for not researching this more myself, don't have the option right now) Were there restrictions specifically for Let's Play videos?

Anyway, thanks again.
 

Fdzzaigl

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Mar 31, 2010
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Wow, those terms are insanely unacceptable.

I really wanted to try the game but this has really made me think twice. That and the fact that I dislike Arkham City style combat on the PC.
 

Thanatos2k

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hermes200 said:
Weird that they specified not wanting references to the movies or the books... Its from the same WB, after all.
They've been really pushing that actually:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-why-shadow-of-mordor-doesnt-use-lord-of-the-/1100-6422710/

I'm still not sure why. I have a creeping suspicion the reason is monetary, that they'd be forced to pay more in licensing if they called it Lord of the Rings.
 

RiseUp

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Aardvaarkman said:
It's pretty shitty, but I feel you are dancing around the real issue here - reviewers shouldn't rely on free or pre-release copies of games. Reviewers should be buying retail copies at release like everybody else.

You're just playing their game by going down this "first to review" path of bullshit.
I disagree, it can be very helpful to have reviews published before release date, so long as publishers don't get to mandate where reviews are focused. Giving out pre-release copies well before the release date can give critics time to play any given game thoroughly, and thus write about either the positives or negatives thereof without rushing themselves. I like to think that something like Destiny wouldn't have sold nearly as well if it were stripped of its hype before release.

Additionally, you're asking people who normally aren't paid very well to buy their own copies of what may be a large amount of games per month, where writing a review freelance will often only return 3 or 4 times the cost of the game.

Simply providing copies to press pre-release isn't inherently corrupting. In fact, it can be good for the industry (if not the publishers) as a whole, provided publishers don't implement measures like the ones detailed in Jim's episode to control the content of reviews.

This is unrelated, but I hate the commonality of the word "reviewer" regarding games, especially after last year's incidents with Grand Theft Auto V and The Last of Us, where a less than perfect score would be met with harassment. To me, it too heavily connotes confirming what an audience already believes, and not giving an honest critique of a game.
 

shadowmagus

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Feb 2, 2011
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This really pisses me off. The more I'm learning about this game, the less I want it, and that's really sad considering how hype I've been. This is the kind of sleazy, underhanded bullshit gamers are sick of in the industry. Stop screwing with our hobby. I don't care about your bottom line. Let me decide whether I want to play it as a consumer, and the bottom line will take care of itself if it's good enough.

Add this to the fact that the Sauron fight has been locked behind the season pass and I'm simply fed up with this game. WB needs to get out of games publishing because they clearly don't care.
 

Guffe

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Fappy said:
A good episode as always. On a somewhat related note I am waiting to get this until I am done with Hyrule Warriors. 7 more Rank 3 weapons to go!

(Agitha can die in a fire, she's so bad DX)
What about all the gold skulltulas?!!!!
Thid rank weps o not, GOLDEN SKULLTULAS!!!!!!!

On Topic:
Interesting as always Jim, and this time a topic I had actually not heard about.
 

Rabidkitten

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Sep 23, 2010
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After all the Gamersgate stuff that happened isn't this just vindicating all of those people who were up in arms. Isn't this just another stark example of how utterly corrupt the gaming press is. YouTubers ARE the gaming press, like it or not they are now the leaders in the gaming press, dethroning print media. And while print sites scramble to stay alive, no one seems to be pitch forking the far more corrupt YouTubers. The print media are just as bad probably because these kinds of PR deals are not exclusive to YouTubers but the YouTubers have no quelms flaunting their journalistic corruption.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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Guffe said:
Fappy said:
A good episode as always. On a somewhat related note I am waiting to get this until I am done with Hyrule Warriors. 7 more Rank 3 weapons to go!

(Agitha can die in a fire, she's so bad DX)
What about all the gold skulltulas?!!!!
Thid rank weps o not, GOLDEN SKULLTULAS!!!!!!!

On Topic:
Interesting as always Jim, and this time a topic I had actually not heard about.
Some of those Golden Skulltulas will have to wait. "Finish the first mission and get 1,200 KOs without taking more than 4 hearts of damage" on Zant's Rank 3 weapon mission? HAHAHAHHAHAhahha...haha...T^T

I swear the only way to do that is either grind him to extremely high level or use the spinning-katamari Zant glitch.
 

Guffe

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Fappy said:
Guffe said:
Fappy said:
A good episode as always. On a somewhat related note I am waiting to get this until I am done with Hyrule Warriors. 7 more Rank 3 weapons to go!

(Agitha can die in a fire, she's so bad DX)
What about all the gold skulltulas?!!!!
Thid rank weps o not, GOLDEN SKULLTULAS!!!!!!!

On Topic:
Interesting as always Jim, and this time a topic I had actually not heard about.
Some of those Golden Skulltulas will have to wait. "Finish the first mission and get 1,200 KOs without taking more than 4 hearts of damage" on Zant's Rank 3 weapon mission? HAHAHAHHAHAhahha...haha...T^T

I swear the only way to do that is either grind him to extremely high level or use the spinning-katamari Zant glitch.
Or you know... You could just be awesome at the game, like I am!
.>
<.<

Some of them are quite a challenge though :p
 

hermes

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Mar 2, 2009
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Rabidkitten said:
After all the Gamersgate stuff that happened isn't this just vindicating all of those people who were up in arms. Isn't this just another stark example of how utterly corrupt the gaming press is. YouTubers ARE the gaming press, like it or not they are now the leaders in the gaming press, dethroning print media. And while print sites scramble to stay alive, no one seems to be pitch forking the far more corrupt YouTubers. The print media are just as bad probably because these kinds of PR deals are not exclusive to YouTubers but the YouTubers have no quelms flaunting their journalistic corruption.
Ehh... no. They are not.

Youtubers are normal people that suddenly found a big soapbox to speak from. For as informal and unorganized "gaming press" as a term is, your statement is like saying Youtubers that have channels about history are the new generation of History professors.
 

AlouetteSK

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Sep 4, 2014
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Rabidkitten said:
After all the Gamersgate stuff that happened isn't this just vindicating all of those people who were up in arms. Isn't this just another stark example of how utterly corrupt the gaming press is. YouTubers ARE the gaming press, like it or not they are now the leaders in the gaming press, dethroning print media. And while print sites scramble to stay alive, no one seems to be pitch forking the far more corrupt YouTubers. The print media are just as bad probably because these kinds of PR deals are not exclusive to YouTubers but the YouTubers have no qualms flaunting their journalistic corruption.
Careful mentioning that topic. Anytime it's been seen outside the megathread it usually turns into a flamewar that derails a thread very quickly.

Fappy said:
Guffe said:
Fappy said:
A good episode as always. On a somewhat related note I am waiting to get this until I am done with Hyrule Warriors. 7 more Rank 3 weapons to go!

(Agitha can die in a fire, she's so bad DX)
What about all the gold skulltulas?!!!!
Thid rank weps o not, GOLDEN SKULLTULAS!!!!!!!

On Topic:
Interesting as always Jim, and this time a topic I had actually not heard about.
Some of those Golden Skulltulas will have to wait. "Finish the first mission and get 1,200 KOs without taking more than 4 hearts of damage" on Zant's Rank 3 weapon mission? HAHAHAHHAHAhahha...haha...T^T

I swear the only way to do that is either grind him to extremely high level or use the spinning-katamari Zant glitch.
Have gotten Hyrule Warriors, but my brothers and sisters kinda hijacked the game from me. Looking forward to it though; last I heard from them they unlocked Midna. Anything majorly different from the main Dynasty Warriors series?

On Topic:
Guess this is another tragic example of an older company trying to comprehend how to properly utilize new media. Here's to hoping for a statement from them, quite possible apologizing. Don't think that we should blame the devs, just the management and the PR.
 

Trishbot

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May 10, 2011
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WB as a publisher is becoming notorious for two things:
1) Really good games (Arkham series, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Condemned, Shadow of Mordor, etc.)
2) Really bad business decisions that bring you down.

I love their games in SPITE of pre-order DLC missions and characters, terrible PR, and other questionable blunders.

If they would just clean up their act, and let their games just BE GAMES, pure and unsoiled by their tainted marketing, the world would be a much better place, and I'd feel happy to support them, rather than doing so with begrudging hesitation because I KNOW Mortal Kombat X is going to be good, even with pre-order Goro DLC...
 

RiseUp

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Jan 31, 2014
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Rabidkitten said:
After all the Gamersgate stuff that happened isn't this just vindicating all of those people who were up in arms. Isn't this just another stark example of how utterly corrupt the gaming press is. YouTubers ARE the gaming press, like it or not they are now the leaders in the gaming press, dethroning print media. And while print sites scramble to stay alive, no one seems to be pitch forking the far more corrupt YouTubers. The print media are just as bad probably because these kinds of PR deals are not exclusive to YouTubers but the YouTubers have no quelms flaunting their journalistic corruption.
Here's my main issue with GamerGate in general (because of course it has to come up somewhere in a thread about industry bullshit): they target the wrong people. There is corruption within the industry, but it's not at all driven by the sinister, self-promoting intent they assume of people in gaming journalism. It's as a direct result of publishers manipulating gaming media as a marketing department, something a good amount of journalists seem to buy into simply because they're excited about what they do, they like the opportunity to have the industry cater to them and give them special access to things they personally enjoy. They like their hobby, and they like talking about it. That makes some people complicit in this system, but they're not responsible for it. It's the industry's largest publishers that GamerGate should be worried about, not Indiecade or Zoe Quinn or Gamasutra.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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AlouetteSK said:
Anything majorly different from the main Dynasty Warriors series?
Nothing too groundbreaking, just a few cool twists on the traditional DW formula. The biggest gameplay difference is probably the weakness system that enemy officers and big bosses use. Maybe it's because I'm also a Zelda fan, but I am spending way more time on this game than I generally do on other Koei titles. It's fun as fuck!
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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That is really weird. For a good game to do this shows a completely out of touch PR company.
Sanunes said:
When hearing about this "agreement" I prefer blackmail myself. I decided no matter how much I am looking for a new game, I won't buy this at full price, for it throws everything I have heard and seen about the game into question.
Not blackmail. Blackmail is specifically obtaining benefits from an individual under the guise that if they give said benefit you won't reveal something that they did wrong.

This may be considered coercion or extortion of some kind if you play loose with the definition of "force". I'm trying to think of the term for withholding something hostage that an individual is already entitled in order to obtain undeserved additional benefits from the individual. It's a term I've heard most frequently used when a spouse withholds marital benefits until the other spouse gives in to their demands.
 

Aurion

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Aardvaarkman said:
It's pretty shitty, but I feel you are dancing around the real issue here - reviewers shouldn't rely on free or pre-release copies of games. Reviewers should be buying retail copies at release like everybody else.

You're just playing their game by going down this "first to review" path of bullshit.
Considering that would mean even less time to get meaningful reviews out the door, that's a principle that seems doomed to impracticability.

The review copy system is abusable in general, sure, but this is several levels beyond the rat race for views of your review. This is a company literally trying to squeeze out anything truly critical of their game. That's a much larger issue. The review copy is just the vehicle.

aegix drakan said:
Youtube, you GOTTA fix that copyright ID system. This is getting abused to hell and back now.

Seriously, they content IDd any review that didn't sign a deal with them to "convince people to go buy it"?

I......Dear God, that's awful. Just...Jeez...
They've had a long time and seemingly a million incidents to get their shit in order, and they haven't yet so don't hold your breath...
 

RandV80

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Darkos Anomaly said:
I wonder what caused the self-doubt in the company that led to making this over-restrictive contract in the first place? I know that when approaching launch day producers can get anxious but this is hysterical. I haven't being following Shadow of Mordor in the weeks preceding to launch so I wonder if there was any significant events that happened prior to release that may have caused this.
Rather than self doubt I'd guess some exec decided he liked this PR firms results and handed the reigns over to them. This is the sort of work PR firms do after all. Note that 'PR', or Public Relations, is literally a friendlier marketing term for propaganda.

You can tell by the wording that these people live in a different world than the rest of us.