Jimquisition: Steam Needs Quality Control

[KungFuJazzHands]

Exactly because a hand full of complaints could simply be one company trying to sabotage another.

Nice fallacy there. I'm not even going to bother responding to that at length because of how silly it is given the overall tone of the discussion we're having.

It takes a big outcry because then it's clear there is a problem and its not just some hired goons or one guy who spend 5 days jumping at one wall in the game until he fell through it.

No, it takes a big outcry because no company likes bad press, and getting the entirety of the internet into a tizzy is about as "bad press" as it gets for a digital retailer like Steam. If you think Valve aren't investigating smaller issues solely because of sabotage or hired goons, you're freaking delusional.

So doing all of 5 minute research on your purchase is considered too much now ?
Just because it's on steam doesn't mean you have to buy it.
Just because it's just come out doesn't mean you have to buy it.

Where did I claim nobody should be under any obligation to do their own research? I'm a big proponent of making consumers more self-aware, but what -- given the context of what you and I are discussing -- exactly does that have to do with Valve allowing developers to release unfinished games on Steam or publishers putting misleading technical info into their Steam Store listings? Personal research only goes so far, and the way Steam is set up now makes it even more difficult for consumers to make a truthfully informed decision.

The person to blame is the developers for actually abusing the system to mislead customer and you know what happens to them out in the west of the internet ?
Internet outback justice. They get slammed and their name is destroyed in the public eye. That's what happens.

That does happen, as it rightfully should. But which company is complacent in allowing those developers to abuse the very system this company created, and which company gets away with that complacency every time by riding on the goodwill of its drooling fans? You get one guess.

Can the game be played ?
Yes
Is the experience extremely poor ?
Yes
Is it therefore broken as it can be played ?
No its just extremely poor quality.

How can people still want to blame Steam for selling poor quality games when music shops still sell the works of Justin Beiber?

I understand what you're getting at, but you seem to be under the impression that I'm somehow advocating that Valve start censoring their library of Steam games based on vague subjective notions of what "quality" consists of. I'm simply arguing that Valve need to be more proactive when it comes to publishers and developers who manipulate a poorly-supervised system. In fact, I'd like to point out that out of the many responses Jim's video has gotten, a very, very small minority could be construed as actually arguing in favor of total censorship and removal of low-quality games.

If you want to continue to beat that dead horse, go ahead. Just don't expect me to accept it as a valid counterpoint to my own opinion. We've already gone over the difference between "objective" and "subjective", so you're doing nothing here but attempting to move the goalposts (as are many other pro-Valve posters in this thread). Since you're so distressed at the thought of a company exerting more preventative oversight on its retail inventory, could you please take it up with the people who are actually pushing for that?

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Snip

As a "pro-Valve poster", I don't see why it would so hard to just say "Valve needs some way to ensure that, at the very least, games aren't falsely advertised and are of a complete state (other than Early Access), rather than a broken buggy mess".

As you have already said, a game can be subjectively bad, or it can be objectively broken. There is no excuse for the latter unless you make it damn well clear it's not a full game yet.

 

[Banzaiman]

Steam needs more than just quality control, it needs to rework its entire interface. Even if we discounted all the shit/ripoff/dysfunctional games that they have, there are still tons and tons of games that are good - and there is no system in place for conveniently browsing them. Pretty much the only comfortable way for me to find a game is to search for it, and by then I already know the game's name and precludes me from any impulse purchases. Their "next ten" scrolling tabs by genre are way too annoying, especially since actually taking a closer look at any of the game sends the list back to the top.

It's a real shame, because I used to love Steam and have so much faith in it. Now it's just a platform to launch some of my games on, and buy some that I know are good from reviews. It cultivated a secure atmosphere where a customer could spontaneously choose a product and would most likely enjoy it, but now it's been completely reversed. Scaring people away from making purchases is a great way to lose customers altogether.

I hope Steam turns itself around, and I know they can, like in the good old days when they were more critical and retrained about what they put up. If they don't, then their Steam-box idea or whatever it is will probably never get going like they want it to.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Well it is kind of the way of the internet store to do this. Apple don't filter the many terrible apps on their closed appstore, Netflix certainly don't try to ensure a high overall quality in the films they show. You can't really just go telling people that you don't think they're good enough for your store. I actually commend Steam for generally sticking a Metascore next to the game. Generally if there isn't one you know you're taking a risk.

Does Whole Foods sell all food? No, they pick and choose what products they're going to sell. MOST STORES tell tons of products that they're not good enough for their store.

Steam does NOT have to sell every single PC game in existence. That is the whole point of this episode - they are trying to do so and it is damaging the perception of the quality of their store. They're selling Coca Cola alongside President's Choice at nearly the same price, and without meticulous research it's starting to get harder to figure out which ones are the quality soda and which ones are the generic crap.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Then again, it sure beats Origin's "I spy on you and if someone hates you, they can ban you from playing any of your games" system though.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Ok... just blame Steam, the marketplace, instead.

This a the mistake that many people in this thread are making. Steam is not the marketplace, any more than your local supermarket is "the marketplace" Steam is just one player in a broader market.

A point that is utterly irrelevant since the subject isn't about the broader market, but specifically about Steam and their practices.

Or did I just misread the title of the topic and imagine the entirety of the video?

 

[KungFuJazzHands]

Sorry but when companies have been fighting via wikipedia (as revealed when a university set up an edit tracker on wikipedia and less than a day later had to take it down due to the amount of trouble it cause). Then I'm pretty sure some companies wouldn't be above this, no matter what you think. I mean King.com copyrighted the words Candy and Saga.

Sure, corporate shenanigans happen all the time. However, using that as a valid excuse to give Valve a pass on not properly maintaining their business is silly.

So again, if 1-2 people complained how would steam know it was legitimate complaints or hired goons?

Well, they could...you know...actually attempt to verify the complaints? Which is something Valve don't do when it comes to one or two CS tickets -- it takes thousands of them to even get Valve to notice.

you seemingly want Valve to fill the role of store and product tester. Steam sell the games like any other shop sells products and every shop has at one time sold something that isn't great but there is demand for it.

In addition to relying on marketing research, successful national retail chains hire product specialists to research and test potential inventory items. Steam, being the largest digital retailer in the world, would be wise to consider doing something similar if they continue to insist on releasing as many games as possible into the Steam wilderness. They don't need to test every title that comes their way, they just need to make sure those titles aren't an attempt to rip consumers off. A minimum of proactive fact checking on Valve's part would go a long way to curbing some very bad behavior.

Since publishers and developers are never going to bother assuring their Steam-sold products are of the best technical quality, maybe Valve should take control of the situation instead of relying on their guinea pigs customers to do it for them.

You and others here are suggesting Valve are entirely to blame for poor purchasing decisions. That' why I brought that up.

I'm suggesting Valve are to blame for letting devs and pubs get away with manipulating the Steam environment. I've never blamed Valve for ingrained consumer habits.

Valve are a company with thousands of products listed, people need to tell them there is an issue before they can act. Just like everywhere else stores rely on the product being sold somewhat honestly and when a company lies, well unless people tell valve they don't know.

And I'd argue that Valve need to stop being so lazy and do more of that themselves. Customers should always be relied upon as a secondary form of quality assurance, not a primary.

Also the point was there is a whole internet beyond steam, steam has tried to inform consumers, far more than most other services. However it doesn't mean you should rely entirely on steam for that information.

We're kind of on the same page for this as I said far earlier what Valve needs to do pretty much to attempt to sort it out. However Valve have tried to bring a better system than most others and a better system has lead merely to better ways the abuse it by unscrupulous development houses.

No argument from me with these last two. At least we can agree on something, right?

 

[OWENR22]

Dang. I've heard a whole lot about all this Greenlight business in the last couple of months, but I had no idea it was getting THAT bad.

Jim, you do have a point. The whole having so much crap and knock offs, and only a few good games is what really killed the industry in the U.S. in 1982.
If Steam wants to keep this service, they need to make some more demands of people putting up their games, or else the whole thing will be made useless.

Thank God for you, Jim.

Bloody hell, how much stuff has he got on that podium now?

Not enough. There is one member missing on that desk, and that object is the Belladonna ***** Fist.

<.< Perhaps Jim "lost" the ***** Fist....

Yes! Jim, bring back the ***** Fist, and while you're at it lets get Jonathan Holmes' Penis on the show!

I'm worried to ask, but how is he going to get, that?

He's already got it! Voila!
https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/420685155737423872

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Spoiler: Some Junk.

Dang. I've heard a whole lot about all this Greenlight business in the last couple of months, but I had no idea it was getting THAT bad.

Jim, you do have a point. The whole having so much crap and knock offs, and only a few good games is what really killed the industry in the U.S. in 1982.
If Steam wants to keep this service, they need to make some more demands of people putting up their games, or else the whole thing will be made useless.

Thank God for you, Jim.

Bloody hell, how much stuff has he got on that podium now?

Not enough. There is one member missing on that desk, and that object is the Belladonna ***** Fist.

<.< Perhaps Jim "lost" the ***** Fist....

Yes! Jim, bring back the ***** Fist, and while you're at it lets get Jonathan Holmes' Penis on the show!

I'm worried to ask, but how is he going to get, that?

He's already got it! Voila!
https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/420685155737423872

HA! Like the old gods, Jim is given parts of humans as gifts.
Jim just gets more than hearts usually. ;p

 

[Robert Marrs]

It would be nice if they implemented some kind of refund system. I understand it could be abused left and right by people buying games that can be beaten in just a few hours only to return them but you could limit it to a certain number of games per month or maybe limit it to new releases before word gets out on if the game is good or not. If origin can do it steam can too.

 

[Plunkies]

If only there were third-party individuals who could play these games for us and then tell us if they're good or not.

This is a problem of personal responsibility. Stop pre-ordering games and do the slightest bit of research before making a purchase. While Steam has a degree of responsibility, it's not their job to protect people from their own stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Except the 100% beef burger isn't 100% beef.
No I'm not joking the burger is 100% beef in that it is a burger sold to McDonalds by a supply company called 100% beef.

That's an urban myth, and isn't true at all.

http://www.snopes.com/business/market/allbeef.asp

Farm Simulator
Train simulator

are you telling me not buying some releases is really that new on steam ?

That's incoherent, and I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Ok... just blame Steam, the marketplace, instead.

This a the mistake that many people in this thread are making. Steam is not the marketplace, any more than your local supermarket is "the marketplace" Steam is just one player in a broader market.

A point that is utterly irrelevant since the subject isn't about the broader market, but specifically about Steam and their practices.

Or did I just misread the title of the topic and imagine the entirety of the video?

Why are you asking me?

OuroborosChoked was the one who called Steam "the marketplace." If you agree that this is not about the marketplace, take it up with him/her as to why he/she called it that.

 

[Something Amyss]

This is a problem of personal responsibility.

In pretty much every other field, if you get a broken or incomplete product, you're entitled to a replacement or refund. Isn't it strange how this is really the only place where people are irresponsible for expecting something to work?

 

[deathmothon]

This is a problem of personal responsibility.

In pretty much every other field, if you get a broken or incomplete product, you're entitled to a replacement or refund. Isn't it strange how this is really the only place where people are irresponsible for expecting something to work?

Except in entertainment. When you watch a bad movie or buy a bad book, you aren't necessarily entitled to a refund.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Have to agree with this. There is currently so much crap on Steam and no easy way of browsing through it all. Over the past 12 months I think I've spent about 3 dollars on Steam. When previously I would buy plenty of games on it. The sales aren't even worth looking at anymore.

 

[Atmos Duality]

OuroborosChoked was the one who called Steam "the marketplace." If you agree that this is not about the marketplace, take it up with him/her as to why he/she called it that.

I assume s/he meant Steam's marketplace specifically, since that's been the point of discussion in the video and 7 pages of this thread. Semantics aside, his (her) original point is one I agree with; it seems like people are blaming Steam for...well, the effects of Poe's Law.