Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

[CWestfall]

-snip-

That attitude is a symptom of a modern age. Well, not so much "modern age" as "Post 2005-ish when advertisers realized they could use flash player".

I frequent several websites where I'm fine with the ads (eg. The Reddit), because they're curated, unobtrusive, and have never given me spyware. If they aren't negatively affecting my browsing experience, blocking them would just be being a dick.

(This post is obviously not discussing nor passing judgment on the advertising habits of The Escapist, since that would probably be against some forum policy.)

 

[Floppertje]

What really drives a nail in the coffin of any discusion on this thread is the rule that states peoplem aren't allowed to mention that they use of addblock ... this means at least one side of the argument (the side that actualy uses addblocking tech) gets silenced if they so much as admit to using it. Look, I get the point against people coming up and saying "I use it and so should you". That I get. But a person comes on a thread dedicated to discusing addblock, it's reasons to exist and be used and when and where it should not be used and says "I use it because my experience on your website has been constantly ruined by intrusive and disruptive adds that you might want to tone down, especialy for people with low bandwith" and that guy gets a warning, and his post gets hidden? That is feedback. As long as no venom was spat at you (and there are plenty such posts that got banned) then why ban the guy for sharing his opinion/thoughts wothout trying to force them?

And I've also read a reply I missed earlier about why such annoying ads get on. Because they offer more money per view. God do I hate short term thinking like that. This is what we call around these parts an unsustainable business model. You get more money per view and make more money in a small time frame. Kudos. You know what also happens? Your prestige gets a nose dive, people get annoyed, they start using addblock, and BAM: you just lost (in many cases forever) thousands of viewers whou could have generated a mountain of cash much bigger than the one you got for that annoying add. You don't get more money with annoying adds, you LOSE money in the long run. It's basic economics, yet aparently today they don't teach the value of a sustainable busines model and instead everyone just goes for "GET AS MUCH MONEY AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND FUCK THE CONSEQUENCES" Trouble is that works (to be PC about it) only in short term business like said annoying adds. When you apply that logic to a long term, potentially infinite term thing like a web-site, congrats: you are running a marathon but you shot yourself in the foot 100 metres into it's course.

Irony is that the escapist is often shaming publishers for business models like that. That smells a bit like hypocrisy

 

[Doclector]

Well, I have a clean health meter, so I'll use this one time to be perfectly honest about my opinion on adblock.

Basically, I've always been massively paranoid when it comes to viruses. With some ads, not just here but on other sites, I've come to feel that it simply isn't safe to browse without adblock on. I can use some examples here of two sites where I don't use adblock, crunchyroll and thatguywiththeglasses.com.

On thatguywiththeglasses.com, I am forced to use adblock, lest blip.tv (which is a shitty service in the first place) put up an anti-adblock notice that stays on the screen for one and a half minutes, as opposed to most of the ads which only last thirty seconds at absolute maximum. Thing is, the ads on there are terrible. Some shorter videos end up with ads less than five minutes from each other. The banner ads are the thing that really concern me. I thought I had seen the end of "WIN A FREE IPAD" ads somewhere around 2008, but thatguywiththeglasses seems content to let them live. I would never conciously click on these of course, but even the thought that I may slip, as I may well do being a mousepad user, and completely fuck up my computer with this malicious ad terrifies me. I end up feeling kind of angry, I understand, they need to keep the site running and I'd hate to see things like nostalgia critic and todd in the shadows go under, but they would force me to put my computer at actual risk in order to do so.

Crunchyroll on the other hand, I actually CHOSE to remove adblock from. Sure, it's annoying to see the same shitty travel insurance advert over and over and over, but their banner ads seem largely harmless. I do so largely because the overpricing of anime in the UK is appalling. I don't pirate anything, partially because I'm a wannabe filmmaker myself and partially due to my aforementioned virus paranoia, but I see perfectly well why people do when HMV asks for £20 for a few episodes of FMA, never mind the chance that you may never find the next few episodes or the difficulty of finding complete series boxsets. I'm glad for the chance to be able to watch anime without either having to fork out massive amounts of money if I can even find what I want to watch or having to pirate it.

I, too think it's the fault of advertisers. There needs to be some standards put in place, yes, maybe even some actual laws, about how you can advertise on the internet. On here, I was terrified to browse without adblock. I'd get popups that I would come dangerously close to accidentally clicking when I was trying to click on something else as it suddenly appeared, I'd have to mute my computer entirely to avoid the risk that clicking an ad to mute audio would take me to another, malicious site. I can't even join pub club because as much as I'm sure the escapist takes care of our personal information, nobody is safe. I don't feel safe putting my bank details anywhere. I want to support the escapist, I don't like seeing it go through financial troubles, but I don't want to have to put my computer or bank details at risk to do so.

So, that's pretty much the gist of it, until someone out there steps in and stops the horrible advertising techniques for good, adblock's gonna have to remain on, not something I'm proud of, but simply something I have to do to maintain some feeling of safety, and for that, I am truly sorry.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I have never even needed to entertain the idea of blocking ads on a website. I have only seen an auto-sound playing advert once, and that was on a website that was probably dodgy in the first place... (the fact that the afore mentioned ad was placed in a position where you had to scroll way past the normal page, past a few meters of blank space to a point where the ad was just sitting, playing to itself!) I have also never had a problem on most sites on either my laptop, tablet or phone!

I completely understand the need for ads. It's what allows us to view the content of this site free (yes I pay for it, but I could have it free, like I used too, and like I often do at work) just like many, many other sites. I also understand that the websites need to attract the right kind of ads. Ones that interest the users, and from better companies, because at the end of the day they pay the site more money to host the ads in the first place.

How do you think a company will think if it is looking at perspective sites to host on, and site A has a zero ad-block policy, site B doesn't seem to take any interest in what the patrons do, and site C actively encourages it?

Site C is obviously out... why would they pay if no one will see it... so it's between A and B.

Site B is the next to be out, because next to site A it looks like users won't see the ads. They want to pay for the site that will get the most views, so A will be chosen over B. That's what the Escapist has to do. Most people on here don't pay the company, the ads do, so unlike a normal business with customers they have to weigh up having better paying ads with having the number of people visiting the site.

The ads pay for the content, and the content draws in the customers...
You can talk in hyoerboles and say that they will lose loads of customers because of obnoxious ads, or you can see that actually the number of customers will probably rise due to the better content.

If you have a problem with ads, then why don't you let the devs know in the groups made for that purpose? They can't see the site formatting on your screen, so Kross and his team can't tell you have a problem unless you maturely let them know...

 

[james.sponge]

Seriously if people block ads on your site there is something wrong with your advertisement model, I don't mind few banners at the bottom of the page and perhaps something bigger at the top but playing sounds, flooding people with pop-ups and launching videos in separate windows is just too much for many of us to bear. So thank you and you may now warn me -.-

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I tend to frequent some...less than reputable sites, so a blocker of some sort is pretty much a requirement for me.

In relation to the escapist?

I do what I need to do in order to avoid being blasted with loud/brazen adverts while perusing media. If the ads here weren't so god damned obnoxious, I would be more inclined to disable my protection.

...It's honestly worth saying, the potential for a warning being as strong as it is, that the Escapist's advertising practices (big banners everywhere, pop out windows, long unskippable videos, loud elusive banner videos, etc.) were a big influence on my decision to run blocking software.

That said, I try to whitelist where I can, here and everywhere else, on anything I want to support. Specific youtube channels, random site videos, and such.

Just feels like I'm getting punished every time I disable the damned thing though.

And I've considered a pub membership, was just the other day in fact (trying to work it in to my budget purely for the sake of supporting you kind folks in some way), but this thread...what the hell, guys? You're not making that decision any more palatable for me.

 

[Queen Michael]

I'll just say that it's a good thing I got a raise recently and could afford to join the Pub Club.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I can't believe ZamielTheHunter got a warning for his post. Essentially saying "I use adblock but didn't realise how much you guys rely on ads. I'll try find the money for a subscription". When your ads are so bad they are driving users like this to adblock, you really need to think about what you are doing. The only person you are hurting with this moderation is yourselves. You ban somebody who was using adblock? Congratulations you gain nothing. You may also have lost somebody who may one day have bought a subscription. They certainly won't be telling their friends about you. No revenue gained and potential revenue lost. It's also driving me, somebody who did get pubclub to re-consider it. This site is heading in a direction I'm not sure I'm on board with. Intrusive, malicious ads, viewgrabbing headlines with no real content, "top 10s"...

Either way, I'm definitely not renewing my subscription. Not even sure I'll still be on the site.

 

[saregos]

The core of why it exists is that people who block ads are leeching resources, encouraging/enabling someone else to do the same is close to directly stealing from those of us who make a living off of this website. While we would all like to have a mutually enjoyable discussion about our views on the topic, our rent money makes it less flexible then most topics. While there's plenty of misunderstanding or non-personal reasons for running an ad blocker, we're generally disinterested in spending money on resources for these self proclaimed leeches. Please respect this.

Breaking my self-imposed Escapist ban to comment on this (saw article on techdirt - Nice going getting on the wrong side of history that badly)

There are any number of ways to support yourselves and your content - Obnoxious and frequently broken advertisements do nothing but drive people away. I was, at one point, one of the first members of Pub Club within a week or two of its announcement, because I supported that model (I cancelled said membership when the reporting quality of many articles went severely downhill - if memory serves, the first time I saw the same "durr Piracy is Stealing" argument you just deployed).

I continued to visit, without adblock, up until relatively recently when you broke Zero Punctuation for several hours so that it would play ads over... and over... and over... and over... but never get to the actual video. That, to me, was the last straw.

I won't be using adblock on Escapist, so you needn't worry about my "stealing" revenue from you. But nonetheless, you won't be getting that revenue, because it is eminently clear that I can no longer visit this website due to a combination of lack of quality and arbitrary, draconian policies.

Your actions have consequences. And lost revenue due to people getting sick of your shit is still lost revenue. Something worth keeping in mind.

 

[cjbos81]

I've never used "ad block" software and I don't plan to.

But I will add this little tidbit to the conversation. I clicked the play button for "Jimquisition" and an add for something called "Psycho pass" played. Immediately before or after this (I'm not sure) my cursor must've gone over an ad for Jeep which expanded and began playing it's own video.

So there was a Jeep commercial literally overlapping a "Psycho Pass" commercial.

That's all I have to say.

 

[wildstars]

I use Adblock and no-script, but I'm conflicted about it. I totally understand the need for revenue streams, but there has to be some balance. For those of you who listen to commercial radio, would you listen to a station that played an advertisement between every song? How about if it was the SAME ADVERTISEMENT each time? And if you are listening to the radio in the car, would you allow the radio to force you to pull into McDonalds to try to sell you a happy meal?

In my opinion, that's what internet advertising has come to. And don't even get me started about the system attacks. Its far from only porn sites. That's a myth propagated by the 'she was raped because she was asking for it' crowd.

So, I go thru a cycle of white listing sites until they get out of hand, blocking them, and then feeling guilty about it after a while and white listing them again. Wash, rinse, repeat. I like the escapist, and I'm feeling guilty, so its white listed again.

I'm not about to buy Jim a dildo. Because, in the interest of fairness and equality, I'd have to buy one for Movie Bob and Yahtzee. I doubt they'd appreciate it (as much).

 

[Zipa]

It's the official Escapist Forums Reading Drinking Game! (accept no substitutions!)

1. Read from page 1.
2. Take a shot every time someone gets a warning.
3. Take 2 whenever someone gets banned.
4 (optional). Mix a cocktail and chug it <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.843934.20799598>whenever someone tries to be civil- and gets a warning anyway.
5. Take 3 whenever a mod or admin posts in the topic
6. Down the whole bottle when it gets featured in a news editorial.

Will anyone take up this challenge? Will anyone survive?

Damn that is nearly as hardcore as the drinking games in the LRR livestreams.

 

[ERaptor]

It's the official Escapist Forums Reading Drinking Game! (accept no substitutions!)

1. Read from page 1.
2. Take a shot every time someone gets a warning.
3. Take 2 whenever someone gets banned.
4 (optional). Mix a cocktail and chug it <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.843934.20799598>whenever someone tries to be civil- and gets a warning anyway.
5. Take 3 whenever a mod or admin posts in the topic
6. Down the whole bottle when it gets featured in a news editorial.

Will anyone take up this challenge? Will anyone survive?

Damn that is nearly as hardcore as the drinking games in the LRR livestreams.

Dude, just call the hospital and down 4 jackies right away, it'll save you a decent amount of time and you wouldnt have to dig trough 27 pages of this BS beforehand. Seriously.

In all honesty, I'd probably follow the previous advice and migrate over to Youtube if the above rubs you the wrong way. Personally im a bit dissapointed there is no direct way to give Jim or Yahtzee money, because honestly, I want to support THEM and not the site. For a variety of reasons allready stated before by other people.

 

[Ender910_v1legacy]

You know... if you're worried about malware from ads, you could try using something like noscript instead. Noscript basically stops any non-white-listed script from running unless you set it otherwise, so it's a lot more reliable, protects your computer more effectively, and doesn't exactly block ads across the board like adblock might (since you can whitelist any safe/unobtrusive advertising source on an individual basis). It's kind of a win-win option for everyone.

 

[FFMaster]

As people are getting warned for things (and the message on Jim's post seems to have changed, i swear at the start it mentioned an amnesty but I may be wrong) I feel i have to say that I do not use AdBlock.

That fact that I do not use AdBlock is the reason why I just encountered a autoplaying video, with no pause button or mute button, only way to shut it up was to click it and close the window that appeared. The escapist isn't the only site to do this sort of thing, autoplaying videos are becoming more and more common.

I say again, this is a two way street, advertisers however seem to be holding a gun to both site owners and site readers heads saying do what we want or we stop giving money to make content. TBH i don't know how this sort of situation can be fixed unfortunately

Gonna be a interesting few years, wondering what will happen to online advertising if the tech bubble bursts.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Everyone here seems to have a nightmarish time with Escapist ads. I don't have adblock or anything but I don't get these intrusive ads. No ads before the videos. No hidden max-volume ads. Not unless safari has a setting I don't know about and I doubt it because there are many other sites on the internet that are nightmarish for me.

 

[Charli]

Wow, look at this. The Escapist is in the news:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140306/06471226459/escapist-website-content-creator-puts-up-video-about-adblock-moderators-warnsuspend-people-discussing-adblock-comments.shtml

That doesn't happen every day.

...Define 'the news' ...because that's no outlet I've ever particularly paid much attention to regarding current events. Even events on the internet. Hell Twitter keeps me more up to date on current events. If it was on some place 80% of us have ever heard of maybe that'd be a thing to behold.

That's just...news. Which we are experiencing here.

Clearly a member of that website had an account here and no longer does. And wishes to let people know that.

 

[lord.jeff]

Quick tip for future poster instead of saying "I use adblock" replace it with "I don't see the problem with adblock" now you're not breaking the rules and can still discuss the subject.

 

[luske3]

Oh, fine, since you asked so nicely. Unlike Linkara, that git.

May I ask you please to link to the post\video Linkara made where he was an ass on this? Would be an interesting read\watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ZZUSpeS4k

There you go. And I agree with Durgiun, Linkara's video is way worse.

 

[Deathtoheaven731]

Signed up to say that I am whitelisting this website with Adblock. I am willing to do so with content creators that ask me to do so in order to allow them to do what they do. For me, Adblock is not an absolute principle, but rather a choice: You don't have the inherent right to profit off of by web presence, but you do have the right to ask for compensation for your service to me, and if that means putting up with a few banners then that's fine with me.

EDIT: So I disabled Adblock on the Escapist, and lo, the flash ads crashed my YouTube video. I tried using something similar to NoScript to be selective, but I couldn't figure it out. Too much trouble. Sorry, guess I'm going to just support you with affection.