How is that a bad thing? The way you talk about it you seem to be implying that it is.jmarquiso said:
Jimquisition: The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
No they didn't...boots said:
They had a competition to choose the default look for female Shepard. The only differences were hair/eye/skin colour. It's not like they asked people whether or not she should have larger breasts, smoother skin or anything.
That's hardly a beauty contest.
Not forgetting the reason for why they did it, which is a lot of people on the forums were unhappy with the lack of advertising Femshep was getting. The contest was Bioware's way of advertising Femshep and allowing the fans a level of decision making into how she'd look.
Well, we lasted 6 pages at least. I am sure that's a record of some kind.The-Bas said:
Unfortunate, but good episode.
I had no idea that kind of blatant exclusion was going on behind the scenes.
The female protagonist thing I just don't get. Every game I've played with a female protagonist has been fantastic. Hell, Mass Effect is BETTER with a female than with a male!
Though I do have to play the douchebag on one account........ I have felt a tiny, tiny bit uncomfortable watching my Commander Shepard get intimate with some of the characters.
I'm one of the most accepting, do whatever you want, give rights to everyone, people in the world, but I can't deny it made me squirm just a bit. My reasoning isn't any kind of homophobia, it's just that in the end, I'm not attracted to men. I've experimented, I was open to it and it isn't me. Simple as that. The main character is, in many cases, the one we channel ourselves through and when they start doing things I don't want to do, it makes me feel the tiniest bit odd. Except with Garrus. I'd go gay for Garrus any day. But I'm talking about the others.
It's [i/]OBVIOUSLY[/i] nowhere near to being close to being almost to the point where I wouldn't play a game, but it's there. And if I feel a little bit, for a lot of the majority Male audience that's less open, it may be enough that they don't want to play. I don't see a solution other than widespread social change.
They just wanted to know what the players wanted instead of just designing some random person for the box cover.
Besides, the default is honestly kind of scary looking.
I had no idea that kind of blatant exclusion was going on behind the scenes.
The female protagonist thing I just don't get. Every game I've played with a female protagonist has been fantastic. Hell, Mass Effect is BETTER with a female than with a male!
Though I do have to play the douchebag on one account........ I have felt a tiny, tiny bit uncomfortable watching my Commander Shepard get intimate with some of the characters.
I'm one of the most accepting, do whatever you want, give rights to everyone, people in the world, but I can't deny it made me squirm just a bit. My reasoning isn't any kind of homophobia, it's just that in the end, I'm not attracted to men. I've experimented, I was open to it and it isn't me. Simple as that. The main character is, in many cases, the one we channel ourselves through and when they start doing things I don't want to do, it makes me feel the tiniest bit odd. Except with Garrus. I'd go gay for Garrus any day. But I'm talking about the others.
It's [i/]OBVIOUSLY[/i] nowhere near to being close to being almost to the point where I wouldn't play a game, but it's there. And if I feel a little bit, for a lot of the majority Male audience that's less open, it may be enough that they don't want to play. I don't see a solution other than widespread social change.
The poll they held is a very silly thing to pick on.boots said:
They just wanted to know what the players wanted instead of just designing some random person for the box cover.
Besides, the default is honestly kind of scary looking.
I don't care about sexism or the heterosexual stereotype, i simply don't care. Would i play a game that shows me it revolves guy on guy relationship, no.
Would i play a game with an active female protagonist, maybe. But i don't NEED it i don't need to have more female protagonist that aren't pure "sexmeat" because publishers don't want it or because it's almost never done (well).
I don't feel the need to get used to playing as a female protagonist and have relationship(s) with guys i just don't see how it improves my gaming experience. I desire a great game, if they chose to go with a male because females simply don't do as well, marketing or experience wise then I'm ok with that.
Would i play a game with an active female protagonist, maybe. But i don't NEED it i don't need to have more female protagonist that aren't pure "sexmeat" because publishers don't want it or because it's almost never done (well).
I don't feel the need to get used to playing as a female protagonist and have relationship(s) with guys i just don't see how it improves my gaming experience. I desire a great game, if they chose to go with a male because females simply don't do as well, marketing or experience wise then I'm ok with that.
I tend to agree. The only great games I've played with female protagonists or at least co-protaganists (is that a word?) are: Wild arms, Streets of rage, golden axe, Tomb Raider, Perfect Dark and Tenchu: Stealth Assassins, Legend Of Izuna: Unemplyed Ninja and if you can claim these games because the playable character doesn't exactly get a script; Portal 1+2. Several of those are older than half the gamers out there! I used to pick Blaze (rage) and Ayame (Tenchu) because I honestly felt they were better, more interesting characters but I can't really think of any case since 20 years ago, where a female character held any interest or lead over a male.Krantos said:
I haven't realised til Jim brough this up but that's really tragic. I can think of a few more with female leads, which I haven't played but you can can them on one hand. I'd like to say that it's teh publishers that are the problem but when I think of how many male gamers I've seen argue rabidly, when anyone tried to ask for a female character in a game, I recoil in disgust. I've seen the flame wars wand terrible excuses given when anyone has suggested the an FPS could benefit from having female toons in order to appeal to female gamers.
"women are smaller but the fov is the same!! They'd see you around a corner before you saw them!!!11!!1"
Seriously, I've seen posts that claimed exactly that.
And yes, if there is anyone who actually feels that they are put off a game or need to complain because their female toon snogged a guy, they have issues that they need to deal with.
On the upside, @Jim, you turned this around brilliantly at the end, I haven't lauged so much in ages. I think it's the contrast of the humour and the horror, it seems to work well. Best Jimquisition EVAR!
I prefer, whenever I have the choice, to play as a female character. I just feel more comfortable projecting myself on to them. I think it has something to do with the body shape? I'm a girl myself, and I don't know... I just feel better when playing a female character.
Anyways, amazing episode Jim!
Anyways, amazing episode Jim!
Well, I can't watch the video right now, thanks to an under-equipped computer, but it sounds like I'm in for something controversial when I get home.
some heavy internal screaming during this whole video. those are real quotes? this is a true general paradigm of the industry? i struggle to maintain my composure. i may be a special case, but i play straight females in games that allow it, and this is, as an understatement, not a problem for me. -.- and i... am frustrated, by the general insecurity that exists here.
In these debates, particularly on the topic of box art, everyone seems to forget MMORPGs exist, and that most of the most successful ones featured females on the box covers (Everquest, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars and a whole lot more of them), not to mention what a large percentage of males play female characters - remember the joke about what MMORPG stands for: many men online role playing girls. So it's really kind of sad and crazy that they (the debates) even exist.
Superb video
As for myself, im a straight male, and i tend to pick male characters in my games, simply because thats what i identify with. That said if enjoy a game enough or if the female archetype skill set suits my play style better ill play her just as easily.
However i did a play through of all three Mass Effect games with a Fem Shep, and enjoyed it immensely.
The idea of a female protagonist kissing a male supporting role strikes me as a wierd assertion though. When i played as MaleShep i made it a character who i would have aspired to be morally and ethically, when i made a FemShep i ended up making her the type of woman who'd i'd easily fall in love with. Despite her being my perfect ideal of a woman I had no problems with her hooking up with Kaiden, if anything i made her monogamous to Kaiden over the three games because i cared enough for the character to want her to be happy. (did the same with my male shep and Liara incidentally ) So the idea of a dude being freaked out at his female protagonist character kissing another dude is quite frankly stupid. As a thoroughly average male im perfectly happy with a female character i like finding love or getting nookie, and im pretty sure the legions of other thoroughly average males out there would feel the same way.
As for the Chicken and the Egg, industry or consumers... i largely blame consumers and consumer stereotypes. No offense to the teenagers here, but a large part of the market is insecure teenage boys. The negative stereotype associated with insecure teenage boys reinforces the homophobic anti-female assumption the industry makes about the views of its largest consumers (regardless of whether its true or not). Whether this viewpoint is shared by the majority of teenage boys or not i don't know, but its certainly prevalent with some the most vocal of them....
As for myself, im a straight male, and i tend to pick male characters in my games, simply because thats what i identify with. That said if enjoy a game enough or if the female archetype skill set suits my play style better ill play her just as easily.
However i did a play through of all three Mass Effect games with a Fem Shep, and enjoyed it immensely.
The idea of a female protagonist kissing a male supporting role strikes me as a wierd assertion though. When i played as MaleShep i made it a character who i would have aspired to be morally and ethically, when i made a FemShep i ended up making her the type of woman who'd i'd easily fall in love with. Despite her being my perfect ideal of a woman I had no problems with her hooking up with Kaiden, if anything i made her monogamous to Kaiden over the three games because i cared enough for the character to want her to be happy. (did the same with my male shep and Liara incidentally ) So the idea of a dude being freaked out at his female protagonist character kissing another dude is quite frankly stupid. As a thoroughly average male im perfectly happy with a female character i like finding love or getting nookie, and im pretty sure the legions of other thoroughly average males out there would feel the same way.
As for the Chicken and the Egg, industry or consumers... i largely blame consumers and consumer stereotypes. No offense to the teenagers here, but a large part of the market is insecure teenage boys. The negative stereotype associated with insecure teenage boys reinforces the homophobic anti-female assumption the industry makes about the views of its largest consumers (regardless of whether its true or not). Whether this viewpoint is shared by the majority of teenage boys or not i don't know, but its certainly prevalent with some the most vocal of them....
Whilst I've never agreed with Jim so wholeheartedly I'm kinda not sure what to make of Levine's comments as to why the cover of BI has Booker only on the cover.RatherDashing89 said:
I look at the BI cover and it could be any number of games, if I saw that on a shelf in the game store with no prior knowledge of the franchise it just wouldn't stand out, it's pretty generic tbh. Add Elizabeth to it and I think that would change.
And yes, ironically that would be applying the old adage of sex sells because as a male gamer I would notice Elizabeth much more quickly than Booker. But I see no reason why the videogame industry can't take advantage of that if it means getting people to buy the game, especially if the female character is well thought out and the gameplay is great.
Persona 3 Portable does the thing with a female protagonist who engages in romance a lot. It's a very focal part of the entire game too how these relationships interact. Same goes for Legend of Heroes Trails in the Sky.