Jimquisition: The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists

[CManator]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I see it and acknowledge it as aa ongoing problem in the industry.

In my case, I'm all for females in any role in any medium. Hell, give me a character creator and i'll often make a female redhead as the main character.

But at the same time if given the choice, i will pursue a relationship with a female regardless of my character's gender. You can say what you like about the implications of that, but that's just how it is for me. However that doesn't mean i'll skip a good game just because my character might kiss a dude at some point.

It's a good episode with many valid points that I agree with, yet my decisions in games don't necessarily reflect that. Weird, huh?

 

[captain_dalan]

The Longest Journey and Dreamfall do indeed have some of the best female characterization in a game that i have ever experienced and presented in such a non-intrusive way that i never felt threatened in any manner by the lead protagonists. 2 out 3 playable characters are women in the 2nd game and in both games the major focus is on April and Zoe. And yes Zoe has a boyfriend and yes she has an intimate encounter with another man later in the game....

 

[orangeapples]

This is a real problem. On forums for games where the players is able to pick a gender (like skyrim or mass effect) there are quite a few people who are convinced that males who pick the female avatar are either openly gay, a closet gay or super perverted. On the other side of this discussion: females who pick the male avatar are perfectly normal.

However, this is not a problem of developers, or publishers, or gamers. This is a problem with people who are stuck in the 1950s. Unfortunately those who feel as though this shouldn't be an issue in this day and age, you are sadly outnumbered.

 

[freaper]

I'll let you be my daddy if you use those black leather gloves of yours.

Snip

Sometimes it's better to "shout, shout, let it all out" than keeping it locked in a gilded locket. If we don't make a fuss about stuff like this now, it'll come to bite us in the ass in the future.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Ok let me get this straight, Publishers don't want to do female protagonists out of a fear of HETEOsexual intimacy? ...what? Besides how many games that aren't RPG's involve intimacy anyway?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I don't think the answer is to stop talking about it.
People get mad when it comes up, some people have hissy fits and be rude. Tough. It's not going away.
Most of the reason people throw shit-fits about it anyway is because they don't want it to be talked about.
Maybe you don't think anything changes, maybe you think everybody is already on one side or another, but I (maybe too optimistically) disagree.

I think that the answer is to move on from just talking about it, actually doing stuff about it instead of just sitting around talking about it doesn't really do anything. We need to do things like support games that do have a female protagonist (Tomb Raider) or start petitions to publishers telling them what we want. Debating doesn't really accomplish much.

Maybe I'm just talking about this because I suffer from anger issues and I really REALLY don't need more stress in my life, I've got enough on my plate trying to get through college, getting good grades and working to earn money for it. My family is extremely dysfunctional too, so I admit I'm a little tired of all the drama following me to my escapism.

Yeah, I have to disagree on that one. We've had god knows how many threads about sexism, and every time it's the same people making the same arguments. People aren't changing, one more sexism thread isn't going to change it. EDIT: Come to think of it, that's why I'm tired of the sexism threads, it's literally the same thing all over again.

I don't disagree with Jim, I'm just tired of the flame wars.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I think part of the problem comes from the fact that the industry is always going to have a certain demographic to lean on: the awkward teens and pre-teens who want to find ways to comfort themselves in their sexual preferences, or put up a suitably manly front for their sometimes cruel peers to see.

I mean, I remember my teens. Was I into deep and introspective stuff? I did have "Myst", of course, but the rest of the time, I was knee-deep in "Doom" and "Heretic" and their kill-fests. I talked about things I didn't like as being "gay" and I tried as hard as I could to act like a douchenozzle in front of bigger, burlier kids who would otherwise ground me into paste in the recess yard or atrium.

Then, I got older. My sexual preferences grew sharper, my tastes as a gamer began to refine. I went from thinking "Duke Nukem 3D" was the best thing ever to thinking "Half-Life" was by far superior. I followed along with the rest of Cyan Worlds' production and all of the stuff other studios did with the "Myst" franchise. That maturity is something that's still settling in, but there's one thing I'm sure of, at 29 years old.

I'm past the whole "Women Are Awkward" phase. I don't mind playing as a woman in games. FemShep is, in my humble opinion, much more dynamic in her voice-acting than MaleShep. I love Jennifer Hale's performance to bits, and the entire female cast of all three games needs to be commended for its efforts. I don't mind playing as a woman in Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3 or New Vegas. Why? Because these games are about giving you the opportunity to tell a story. Why shouldn't I be allowed to more or less write out the story of a female Dragonborn who hefts her claymore like the best of the boys and wears full Dragonplate armour? Why couldn't I want her to get hitched?

Because I'll get gamer cooties? Because playing as a woman and hitching up with a man gives you a case of the Gamer's Gayness?

*sighs*

All this tells me is that there's PR execs and gamers who simply haven't and will never get past their teenage insecurities. Not when the most palatable alternative involves validating those insecurities by offering an endless gallery of Caucasian, brown-haired douchecanoes.

Don't get me wrong, Nathan Drake is a strong and likeable character - strictly thanks to Nolan North's ad-libbing and Naughty Dog's quirky writing. I'm sure I'll find reasons to empathize with Joel once "The Last of Us" comes out, and I'm sure Booker DeWitt's redemption makes for an interesting tale in and of itself, in "BioShock Infinite".

But the thing is, I want some Helena Fisher in my Uncharted. I'm looking forward to meeting Ellie as Joel, and God damnit, if Elizabeth isn't the first female character in a game that I'd actually want to take aside and shoot the shit with, if it were possible! I was really skeptical about the interplay between Draper's performance, the mocap and the AI driving Liz, but it all falls into place exceptionally well. As a result, she's a lot more like Elika in the one-shot "Prince of Persia" reboot than the game's take on Princess Peach or Pauline.

I'd like to slip inside EA or Activision's focus groups and tell them to wake the fuck up. There's tons of other demographics outside of the average "Thirtysomething White Male Looking for some Masculine Empowerment". Would they listen, though?

Probably not, seeing as anyone from tweens to thirtysomethings tend to want to slip in the above-mentioned bandwagon. My guess is we'll start to see shifts in game and character design once the age average reaches up into the fifties and sixties.

 

[Fappy]

Snip

I don't think the answer is to stop talking about it.
People get mad when it comes up, some people have hissy fits and be rude. Tough. It's not going away.
Most of the reason people throw shit-fits about it anyway is because they don't want it to be talked about.

Maybe you don't think anything changes, maybe you think everybody is already on one side or another, but I (maybe too optimistically) disagree.

It's a good way to weed-out bad apples too, imo. Generally speaking those threads have a habit of getting especially vitriolic people mod wrathed.

 

[Irridium]

Well this video is just what these forums need right now.

Sadly, it is what the Escapist needs right now. It's what gaming needs. We'll get nowhere going with the grain.

Indeed. In fact, this brings up another thing with the gaming community that I think is really worrying. The fact that something is talked about, then everyone moves on, and anyone who wishes to talk about that thing is told to shut up and move on.

Everyone: "Online passes/always on DRM/sexism are issues and something needs to be done!"

Some person: "Online passes/always on DRM/sexism are issues and something needs to be done!" Everyone: "Shut up, nobody cares anymore."

Just this huge sense of apathy that sets in after a given period... I hate it. I hate it so damn much.

 

[cyvaris]

The Samus fanservice pisses me off to no end. Really, if we have to take her out of her power-armour can we leave her in "normal" clothing? No. Why? Because bullshit reasons about "sexy".

Normal clothing like the first time she was shown out of her armor at the end of the first game with her in it?

Yeah...well you got me there. Bleh it's an annoying trend and one I heartily dislike and always attempt to subvert in the various things I write. Maybe that is the reason my manuscripts keep getting rejected! My women are covered, not buxom, and just as involved in the action as the men!

 

[Phasmal]

Snip

Perhaps if you've had enough, I'd respectfully suggest... not coming into those threads?

Yes, we need to support games with female characters, but being vocal about wanting more does nobody any harm.
And reminding ourselves of these issues stops them from being pushed to the back of our collective minds and might stop people from declaring it `isn't an issue any more` when it clearly still is.

 

[daibakuha]

Okay, fuck it!
I always play as a male in character creation RPGs because I like projecting myself into a character.
Next time though, I'm gunna try playing as a woman. MY SENSE OF SELF CAN TAKE IT!

Jim, call me! <3

I do too, but only in RPGs. Games in which I project myself in them. In regular games where you don't have that kind of role-playing though? Relate-able characters should be relate-able regardless of gender.

Having said that, I'm more than willing to bet this is more an issue with the gaming audience rather than publishers being spineless. As much as anyone here is willing to admit that they would really like to see more female protagonists, most of the gaming audience is the "gunbro" type. Can you really blame a publisher for an attitude that they believe makes them the most money? Games aren't a charity.

Gunbros can play as gungals, people still bought Bayonetta, Tomb Raider and Metroid didn't they?
Publishers just want to believe gamers are as insecure as they are.

Not in the numbers they buy games like Battlefield, Call of Duty or Halo in.

 

[Eve Charm]

In an non creepy sexual manner the Harvest Moon games the later ones let you choose to be a boy or a girl or when they came out with the cute versions of the earlier games that didn't have the choice. You active pursue male love interests and in most the games have to get married and such to get to the end game.

But I get the demographic not buying female games. Even the old school gamers that yell out how rare never made a new banjo kazooie game and nuts and bolts was a sell out or whatever. I like to bring up it was made, it was Kameo, and no one bought it and it was awesome ;p.

I can say at least we aren't getting games like fear effect <.< Also lets give a nod to beyond good and evil for a great female protagonist.

 

[KaZuYa]

Well there is many reasons for this and it is and it isn't the fault of industry, I can understand games like Call of Duty and Battlefield being very male orientated because that's life the military is like that and with wanting realistic games that's what you're going to get and all the female gamers I've met who play these kind of games are not bothered by it in the slightest.

Though when you get into more fictional driven games like Gears of War, Crysis or even Halo there is very little excuse outside of a very sexist driven market and yes it should be addressed but when developers and consumers seem to want to have relationships and love interests in every game again you're forcing a problem into a game but when you're trying to immerse a player then forcing them to do something they wouldn't and yes it does put people off. These relationships need to always optional so either write the game where the characters stay platonic or any romance is a choice like Mass Effect.

I mean if a Male character shows his emotions or god forbid cries he's a whiney emo b*tch but if a strong female character hits on every man she meets and goes on about all the c*ck she's had she is seen as a whore. Imagine Duke Nukem made with a female lead and the roles reversed I think the outcry from the feminists would be deafening.

Though to be honest unless the protagonist is historical or a predetermined fictional character then their sex is a mute point, though as foot note male protagonists are far easier to write and you can put the depth and character into the female companion while the player is teabagging his latest kill.

P.S I hope you noted steam used art featuring Elizabeth to sell Bioshock Infinate =p

 

[Strazdas]

must...resist.....islam.... joke.....


The thing is, sadly, the majority of amers, who are male sexists actually ARE that bad. Thats the community we have grown up. and we jut have to do with what we have. sure in a perfect world noone would care. but this is not a perfect world. Its a problem, and like you said, we must admit it is there.

Whos at fault? idiots that run the world to be frank. thats the humanity we have grown up for outselves. we are beaten into this track from a very young age. and i mean primary school age.

 

[hentropy]

I agree. I'm not really sure what else to say. Anyone who really believes there is no problems with the way games portray women and sexuality is deluding themselves because they don't want to admit that their hobby is flawed on a community and social level.

 

[TheProfessor234]

Know what would help push this issue? A game with strong female protagonists, with varied story arcs, who develop greatly as characters, who overcome some great challenge.

And then have all the male characters in the game be shirtless, mindless, bulky fools who are there only for one thing. Lifting heavy objects and putting them down so the female characters can move on. Hell, make it where you don't even need the male characters there to do it but have it be the only option and reason why the male characters are there.

I just think people need to learn by example but sadly a game like that would never be made or if it was, it would never be spread across a large enough audience to make an impact.

 

[dragongit]

Speaking of Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy. We've got that Beyond: Two souls coming. With Quantic Dreams and their "EMOTIONS" might have their female protagonist initiate the intimacy with whomever. Or they could play it safe and not do that, but it's a Quantic Dream game there is bound to be a sex scene. That isn't even a joke, by their record every game they've made has had a sex scene. The only way they could twist that around to be "no homo" is to make her a lesbian.