Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

[Baresark]

My only complaint about this whole so called controversy, is that he is not beating a group of defenseless women. It is just trailer that was meant to bring attention to the game. It's not a particularly good trailer, and it doesn't do much for selling the game to me. But I also do not find it offensive.

 

[Baresark]

*snippit*

While I appreciate your attempts to use my words to accentuate your point, the fact of the matter remains that I fundamentally DISAPPROVE of the course of 'conversation' which is going on. Not because of the content of the video, whether it amused your or not, but on the basis of it's continuing the popularization of individuals climbing up onto their soapboxes and condemning other people for having the 'nerve' to enjoy the things they do.

Why do trailers and movies and books depict things like this? Because people ENJOY it. If people didn't... marketing moves like this wouldn't sell copies of games. And, lo! Sex and gimmicky action is STILL selling movie tickets and video games.


You and your soapbox have the right to exist. I'm certainly not going to take /that/ away from you. I'm just here to remind you that you and your opinion don't have the right to dictate what I enjoy, or what anyone else enjoys, and you sure as hell don't have any kind of a moral high ground to stand upon. If I happen to enjoy something you don't, by all means... don't enjoy it.

That's what this discussion is about. It's not about speaking against the objectification of women. It's not about people expecting a more mature tone from the medium of gaming. What this entire discussion is /actually/ about is individuals reinforcing themselves in the belief that if they throw enough stones at people who disagree with them, they might earn some extra kudos on the internet. This argument doesn't have a damn thing to do with people actually caring about the content of the trailer. INDIVIDUALS might be having that discussion, but it's certainly not all the people who make their livings by REPORTING on this stuff. They just want people to keep reading and writing what they have to say, so they take a position in any polarizing argument that comes along.


Maybe you don't like it! That's fine! It's good to know what you like and don't!

But don't fool yourself into thinking that this argument is about anything more than the gaming media trying to stir up some controversy by acting shocked and affronted by something that it knows isn't SHOCKING or AFFRONTING.

It's just media doing what media does best... stirring the pot.

Well said.

 

[Alexnader]

Concerning the "violence against women" side of this debate; how long have women been present in the (American) army now? I can't for the life of me remember if I've ever seen a women portrayed as a regular (not important for the plot) soldier in either MW2, BF3 (only modern titles of CoD and BF I've played) or any other FPS. If you argue against violence towards women in war, stealth, whatever games, you should re-evaluate your standpoint, and simply argue against violence in general. Seeing as how that's never going to happen, how about giving both sexes (and all the genders) a fair trial?

Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.

As far as I'm aware most of the outrage isn't from the violence, nor is from the violence against women. It's the way the trailer sexualises said violence against women. You have to admit, slow motion shots of scantily clad women getting the shit kicked out of them does seem a lot like violent erotica.

Now people will read as far into this trailer as they want. Harmless violence or the brutal domination of women presented in a provocative manner? Probably a bit of both really.

Personally the trailer makes me uncomfortable, it just seems unnecessarily fetishistic to me. But I can see why others may have no issue with it or get riled up about it.

 

[FoolKiller]

ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

I also don't see the problem, I rather enjoyed it actually.

Bear in mind I'm on the fence with it but the problem a lot o people have is

Those ladies are wearing grossly impratical outfits, the type of clothes you would wear in a bedroom.

And that was my problem with it. I thought the squad of nuns is a great idea until I saw the shoes and the outfits. No wonder he could kick their asses. Those are terrible for fighting situations.

I couldn't care less about the violence against women in this trailer. Or violence against any woman who is trying to kill me. Or any man, child, animal or anything else for that matter. You try killing me and fail, then you must die. End of story.

 

[The Ubermensch]

Ya know... I normally wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole, but I'm feeling crazy so LETS DO THIS SHIT!

Okay, and this part is purely violence against women. Socrates once said "when woman is made man's equal, she is his superior" and that's kind of what's happened. Women now have all the same rights as men (More in some cases, don't get me started about birthing rights in Australia) but society still sees them as needing extra protection... which I mean... In the broad sense is true; there are some women that could hand my arse to me but genetically speaking men have a higher muscle density compared to women. But to be honest; I would advise not attempting to smack anyone around, rather own them verbally.

Now... there are exceptions to this rule; and this exception is if someone try's to kill you... you go ahead and try to kill them right back. If you are a combatant you have to come to peace with the fact that someone is going to try and kill you it doesn't matter if you're male or female... or 6 years old (as harsh as it sounds) for that matter.

Anyone points a weapon at me and they have just forfeited their right to life

As far as the hypersexualisation... meh, I mean we've all heard of the honey pot. Men have strength, women have sexuality. I could see a lot of women wearing this get up because its like owning their sexuality. And I'll tell you; there is a good chance that if I saw that on the battle field I might hesitate. Just going... "DAMN!". Saying that I've seen women rock a flack jacket pretty well to. I think a lot of the hypersexualisation lash back is coming from groups that think "Slut" too much. Now I'm not saying open your legs for everyone ladies, I'm just saying the majority of you look damn good in latex and six inch heals, you should wear it more often. Seriously though; Its a subjective thing. I say "What ever you are comfortable with, just respect that others have different opinions"

Oh, but you look way better on the back of a sports bike in full leathers.

And... COME ON, FUCKING BATTLE NUNS!

 

[Screamarie]

Okay so I don't give a damn about the "violence against women" thing. That's stupid. Women can be assassins and they can get hit, hurt, killed.

What bothers me is that the dude assassin gets to wear a suit and look cool while he's kicking womanly ass...while the dudette assassins have to look like they should be on the street corner going "you looking for a good time boys?"

That's the problem with this. Both the guy and the women are assassins, but one is clearly better represented, and guess which one it is.

If you want to dress your female assassins up as sluts, fine, but then your male assassin better come out dressed like a chip 'n dale dancer.

 

[The Ubermensch]

Okay so I don't give a damn about the "violence against women" thing. That's stupid. Women can be assassins and they can get hit, hurt, killed.

What bothers me is that the dude assassin gets to wear a suit and look cool while he's kicking womanly ass...while the dudette assassins have to look like they should be on the street corner going "you looking for a good time boys?"

That's the problem with this. Both the guy and the women are assassins, but one is clearly better represented, and guess which one it is.

If you want to dress your female assassins up as sluts, fine, but then your male assassin better come out dressed like a chip 'n dale dancer.

But would a chip 'n dale dancer be imposing? These women look imposing because they have control of their sexuality. Can a chip 'n dale dancer look badass? I mean honestly?

 

[Wriggle Wyrm]

I really loved the Hitman series but I don't like this preview at all. The thing that bothers me most isn't so much that it sexualized the nuns or killed them, but that it both sexualized AND killed them. Seriously, I don't mind some fan service or violence but when you combine them together in the same short clip it can get really disturbing.

 

[yunabomb]

This is my first time watching this trailer. I don't get it at all. Why were they wearing nun habits? Why did they suddenly remove them to reveal sexy clothing? What is this supposed to portray about the game?

This is one of the strangest portrayals of sexualized violence I've seen.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, there was a time when a video game depicting women getting punched was not ok.
That game was Final Fight.

So what did Capcom do?
"You're not really punching a woman in the face, Poison and Roxy are actually trannies."
That didn't work either, so the North America version of Final Fight got Billy and Sid instead.

Fast forward a lot of Capcom games, and you have Poison in Street Fighter X Tekken.
According to Ono, in Japan Poison is a cross-dresser, whilst elsewhere she's post-op.

The more you know.

 

[lacktheknack]

People are going bananas over this? You should see Lady Gaga's Nun outfit.

The one with the nipple tape, or without?

 

[lacktheknack]

Okay so I don't give a damn about the "violence against women" thing. That's stupid. Women can be assassins and they can get hit, hurt, killed.

What bothers me is that the dude assassin gets to wear a suit and look cool while he's kicking womanly ass...while the dudette assassins have to look like they should be on the street corner going "you looking for a good time boys?"

That's the problem with this. Both the guy and the women are assassins, but one is clearly better represented, and guess which one it is.

If you want to dress your female assassins up as sluts, fine, but then your male assassin better come out dressed like a chip 'n dale dancer.

But would a chip 'n dale dancer be imposing? These women look imposing because they have control of their sexuality. Can a chip 'n dale dancer look badass? I mean honestly?

If a Chip 'n Dale dancer suddenly pulled a gun on you, would you feel in control of the situation or be thinking about how unimposing he looks?

 

[The Ubermensch]

Okay so I don't give a damn about the "violence against women" thing. That's stupid. Women can be assassins and they can get hit, hurt, killed.

What bothers me is that the dude assassin gets to wear a suit and look cool while he's kicking womanly ass...while the dudette assassins have to look like they should be on the street corner going "you looking for a good time boys?"

That's the problem with this. Both the guy and the women are assassins, but one is clearly better represented, and guess which one it is.

If you want to dress your female assassins up as sluts, fine, but then your male assassin better come out dressed like a chip 'n dale dancer.

But would a chip 'n dale dancer be imposing? These women look imposing because they have control of their sexuality. Can a chip 'n dale dancer look badass? I mean honestly?

If a Chip 'n Dale dancer suddenly pulled a gun on you, would you feel in control of the situation or be thinking about how unimposing he looks?

"Boy, put that thing away before you hurt your self"

But that's just me. I would not feel in control, but if you're not in control of something its pointless worrying about it.

 

[PrototypeC]

I don't care one whit about "oh they're (good-looking) women, they can't be hit, that's not cool" etc. etc.

The important thing about this is that they're nuns because a) "controversy gets attention!" and they're hot women because b) "hot women get attention!" and they're toting guns because c) "guns are cool". All of these conclusions have been reached because they are thinking of all gamers as the immature children who love stuff like this. If it seems innately chauvinistic, that's because it probably is meant to be. That's publicity, baby!

Oh wait, you mean we AREN'T all excited about gushing neck stumps and close-up violence against S+M nuns? Then I guess it's time for advertisers to stop treating us like 8-year-old magpies and give us... oh I don't know... gameplay? How about that? CG cutscenes mean jack shit in this day and age, but advertisers still think that graphics matter more than the game itself, somehow, and we get those instead.

Don't argue that they're "battle-nuns" and that they knew what they were getting into because they're deadly killers. It's that same shit from MGS4. They don't just happen to be hot young women by total coincidence or even some special hiring method; a person or group of people from the studio decided that's who they were because sex and violence (they still think) sells. No amount of story in the game would make these characters make sense in-universe. They are walking billboards saying, "pay attention to me!" to the company that makes the video game.

 

[Elate]

The only problem I have with the video is that the outfits make no logical sense, to a hitman game. Sexualising women in games? I don't care, because men are equally sexualised/degraded as these big hulking masses of manly man, games about normal dudes, have equally normal women. Hell look at that trailer for example, they've tried to make 47 look slightly sexy/ragged undressing so slowly and all that jazz, he's a hitman who has been conveyed as being sleek and stylish through the entire series, this trailer is just a shambles. The fighting was pretty cool though.

 

[PrototypeC]

While I appreciate your attempts to use my words to accentuate your point, the fact of the matter remains that I fundamentally DISAPPROVE of the course of 'conversation' which is going on. Not because of the content of the video, whether it amused your or not, but on the basis of it's continuing the popularization of individuals climbing up onto their soapboxes and condemning other people for having the 'nerve' to enjoy the things they do.

That's what this discussion is about. It's not about speaking against the objectification of women. It's not about people expecting a more mature tone from the medium of gaming. What this entire discussion is /actually/ about is individuals reinforcing themselves in the belief that if they throw enough stones at people who disagree with them, they might earn some extra kudos on the internet. This argument doesn't have a damn thing to do with people actually caring about the content of the trailer. INDIVIDUALS might be having that discussion, but it's certainly not all the people who make their livings by REPORTING on this stuff. They just want people to keep reading and writing what they have to say, so they take a position in any polarizing argument that comes along.

Maybe you don't like it! That's fine! It's good to know what you like and don't! But don't fool yourself into thinking that this argument is about anything more than the gaming media trying to stir up some controversy by acting shocked and affronted by something that it knows isn't SHOCKING or AFFRONTING. It's just media doing what media does best... stirring the pot.

Wow, you seem to have psychic powers. Somehow, you've figured out what every person who didn't like the trailer and want to talk about it is actually doing... trying to get attention and show off on the internet! Bravo! I didn't even realize it myself. I thought I was making the point that this trailer has actually HURT sales because "sex sells" was built for a different age and a different medium, and that we're more complex than to fall for overblown juvenile torture porn and that we've had just about enough of advertisers using such schlock to sell our games. I thought that IO had clearly labeled their audience as sweaty 13 year-old boys and nobody else and deeply insulted my and many others' class and intelligence (weirdly, both strong themes of the series thus far).

I also deluded myself into thinking that if someone is upset by something, they should speak up because advertisers and developers live in la-la land and only the loudest voices can reach them. If many people are upset (a large portion of the originally intended audience, perhaps) then I was thinking the company should take that as a cue to change their tactic. See also: Silent Hill: Book of Memories.

You seem to be (besides all-knowing and psychically attuned) very invested in this subject, more so than you should be. Could it be that you are used to and excited by this kind of thing and are feeling attacked because you're realizing that you're not the only person in the world whose opinion matters? It seems to me that you're the one without a very rational opinion here, and I wonder what stake you have in it then.

 

[Ishigami]

Wait a second: The problem is that women are sexualized and then violated?
I thought the problem is that it makes no sense... seriously I did.

Well now that I'm exposed to this new angle I have to say that since I'm a feminist so I think a women should be beaten up like any men. Equal rights and stuff.
Next time just cut the undress scene that was really sexist...

 

[Vault101]

Movies and comic book have always overly sexualized women, I don't see what makes Video Games so different, I mean no one screamed at the makers of the Sucker Punch movie for sexualizing their women. Ana they were REAL women and not ones made by ones and zeroes.

so? sexualisation (the bad kind) sucks...no matter what medium or how long its been happening

 

[1337mokro]

This trailer could have easily been great and atmospheric. But it just devolves into sexualized violence.

Now here's the thing. A woman getting punched in the face is FINE! I am 100% in favour of punching women in the face in FICTIONAL MEDIA because equality works both sides. If a woman is depicted as an action character she is gonna get punched and shot at. Keep your domestic abuse bullshit for you, she isn't married or in a relationship with whoever is punching her. It's a hostile person intent on killing the character so of course it is going to come to blows.

However if she is first dressed up as a heavily make upped nun, then put a step further by making that a latex clad nun, you have crossed the line. Why? You now have no longer made it about a woman being punched in the face. But about a woman dressed as provocative and sleezy as possible to cater to horny teenagers, getting punched in the face.

You have gone from woman, to fetishized sex object.

Like I said they could have easily FIXED this trailer without even having to change the fact it's about Nun assassins. Have them keep their clothes on. Have them use stealth amongst the crowds to get close to 47.

Why did it have to be a braindead action melee brawl with explosions with women in fetish gear?