Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade

[Something Amyss]

Obviously they had the audacity of trying to become involved with video games while female. What bigger crime can there be? Think of the cooties!

Apparently, closing off your comments section and not tolerating threats.

 

[hentropy]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens. This isn't a problem with gaming - this is a problem with *the internet.*

No one is blaming you for harassment, and being called stupid or dumb is not harassment. Getting all your social media accounts bombarded with sexist nonsense, getting threats against you, that is harassment. Imagine pouring a lot of your money, time, and heart into a game, and as soon as you submit it on Steam all of the comments blow up with YOU DUMB MAN YOU KNOW NOTHING GB2 WEIGHT ROOM KEEP THIS CRAP OFF OUR STEAM. And then when you ask what you did so wrong, someone says "well, I don't condone what they're saying, but why are you submitting this on Steam? Maybe you should just stay off of Steam if you can't handle the trolls."

That's different than someone calling you dumb on an Internet forum, yet you equate it, which is the problem. It doesn't happen to most developers, it only seems to be those who dare identify as female.

 

[Ipsen]

Bullshit. I have no relation to the harassers. Gaming is a worldwide hobby now and the idea that we are a single community is absolutely nuts. I don't even consider myself a part of certain communities within the games that I play.

And have you looked at Greenlight lately? Any crappy browser game or mobile port on there gets tons of flak. No, they shouldn't have made her gender part of the criticism, but the game would have been ridiculed either way.

Bullshit on your bullshit.

You have relation to harassers, simply for the fact of them being present and you acknowledging them. Really, what's stopping harassers from 4chan, or youtube, or IGN, from coming to, and affecting the 'Escapist Community'? What's stopping the reciprocal (besides personal preference)?

There's no 'gate' to bar all the vitriol another 'community' can bring to another. At least, the 'personality' of a site serves no hindrance to it. Speaking on terms of real people treating other real people, this might as well be one community. You're just simply comparing yourself to others at any level, then claiming yourself disparate.

And that's okay to do, but realize that's hermit mentality; you don't validate your claims by posting this, a forum not only open to this community, but every community.

 

[xNicolex]

A community is judged by the worst shit it tolerates, and as such the gamer community deserves all the scorn it gets.

The problem with that is that we don't tolerate it. In fact, one of the big points Jim makes is that people go out of their way to attempt disown people who do this. Just because it exists doesn't mean the gaming community at large tolerates it. But the fact is that we cannot stop it. The best we can do is call out the idiots who do it.

Except that it is tolerated. That's why it exists in very very plentiful amounts.

This isn't one of cases every so often it's becoming a weekly issue. It's not always the same people.

 

[Erttheking]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens.

Because as a male gamer, you're just expected to suck it up. And you do. We do.

But the minute that a woman gets mean things said to her, suddenly it's a big deal. For all the flak people like Anita Sarkeesian give Damsels In Distress, she sure profited off being one.

And this Depression Quest chick is going to be rolling in Benjamins from this.

I'll close with saying, "what is more sexist, the trolls who exploit chinks in the armor, or the press who focus on her being a woman who was insulted online?"

(Fer Christ's sake, if you're getting threatening phone calls, call the damn cops.)

Yes and that does suck. It's why I report someone who ever acts like an asshole to me online. The men don't, you know, get harassed for being men. It's kind of a different scenario.

Rolling in Benjamins? The game is going to be free...so I doubt it.

Um...pretty sure it's the harassment bit. I'm still failing to see the downside to people exposing harassment online.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

Making us feel responsible is only going to give more power to those who delight in spreading misery for the sake of their own twisted humor. In the end we won't have the power over them, no, they'll still just do what they want. Instead they'll have power over us if we try and base all our actions and reactions on what they do. Hell, I think it's about at that point right now.

 

[xNicolex]

I don't understand how it's my responsibility or problem that a minority of anonymous gasbags had a go at a woman for making "Depression Quest".

I also do not understand how I could possibly change this or contribute in any way.

It's this type of apathetic behavior which partly encourages this.

 

[Abomination]

I don't understand how it's my responsibility or problem that a minority of anonymous gasbags had a go at a woman for making "Depression Quest".

I also do not understand how I could possibly change this or contribute in any way.

It's this type of apathetic behavior which partly encourages this.

"Encourages"? My inactivity is ACTIVELY promoting the opposing viewpoint?

I'm sorry, but that's some "you're either with us or against us" rhetoric being spouted.

I'll be certain to subscribe to webpages and forums I never visit and post my dissent at people I've never met, about opinions I don't share to encourage people I don't know to move forward with causes I don't care about... because to do otherwise is to promote the opposing side.

Know what, I think I like the trolls more. At least they don't go out of their way to belittle and insult me for not contributing to this "battle".

 

[Pebkio]

I've always been on the side of "ignore those asshats because paying attention to them is exactly what they want". This video hasn't changed my opinion. Even with the guilt trip. I don't view myself as greedily turning a blind eye so I can live happily in ignorance... but what are you going to do: Argue with them? They love that shit... can't get enough.

The best we can hope for is to find, label and ostricize these people. It's harder on the internet, but not impossible. But that still wouldn't stop the threatening emails or phonecalls... or the 1-star reviews everywhere for practically no reason. So what would be the point?

I hate to say it, but most people can't deal with these trolls. Only hackers and data miners could actually enforce some real punishment, and they usually don't care. But if you could actually find their machine and load it up with crippling viruses or find where they live and punch their teeth in... then you might actually get them to stop. Anything less and you're just fueling their hate-mongering.

 

[Harleykin]

If I changed the minds or two or three people, I'll call it a win.

to be honest if it'd change peoples minds
i'll call it a win too don't get me wrong!
it's just...one lame comparison and i'll stop it ok?
do you think chauvinists will ever read up on femenist theories? i really do think those heads are closed of and if some anonymous person on the web tell's them it's wrong...i really doubt they will change. i'm afraid there isn't enough weight behind and argument (tried to translate a german figure of speech...dunno if this makes sense ha!)

You're fine.

glad you didn't take it the wrong way

(politest forum i'ver been a part of...seriously!)

 

[loa]

Except that it is tolerated.

Start a thread harassing a game developer over here 4chan style and see how that goes then.

 

[carnex]

One question if risen here and is really the most important question of them all.

Are specific gender threats really sign of anything? In my opinion threats are threats and gender just affects the choice. and while you could tell male that you will rape him, you can't really tell female that you will rip her balls of of nail his "fifth limb" to the floor. They say nothing about the reason that threat is made.

And, yes, Feminims/MRE internet arms war that is going on for last few years did create pockets of people that just wait for a slightest provocation to lash out like they personally were violated. But that goes for both sides, and just about equally. It's just that the methods are different.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Also, I don't think things like this are helping. You can say "You're evil if you just sit there and do nothing!" but I think that's exactly the best solution.

When some nut job jumps onto a football field and goes streaking, the TV cameras cut away. Why? So they don't give the loser attention. Articles and videos like this expressing their outrage is exactly what the trolls want - to be noticed. You are really just enabling them when they really should be ignored. After all, you're never going to change their minds. Condemn them when it happens and move on. Plastering their injustices across the internet will never discourage them.

 

[Erttheking]

If I changed the minds or two or three people, I'll call it a win.

to be honest if it'd change peoples minds
i'll call it a win too don't get me wrong!
it's just...one lame comparison and i'll stop it ok?
do you think chauvinists will ever read up on femenist theories? i really do think those heads are closed of and if some anonymous person on the web tell's them it's wrong...i really doubt they will change. i'm afraid there isn't enough weight behind and argument (tried to translate a german figure of speech...dunno if this makes sense ha!)

You're fine.

glad you didn't take it the wrong way

(politest forum i'ver been a part of...seriously!)

And that's a fair point, you're not going to be able to change everyone's mind. I'm just saying that we should do what we can, when we can. And to be honest when it comes to people like that I'm not really expecting to change their minds, they're more the people who I was talking about when we should say we don't tolerate their attitudes. It's kind of why I said sexism isn't going anywhere, it's going to take awhile for it to be bred out of society. Still, doing little things here and there can help nudge it, if only a little, in that direction.

No problem.

 

[xNicolex]

I don't understand how it's my responsibility or problem that a minority of anonymous gasbags had a go at a woman for making "Depression Quest".

I also do not understand how I could possibly change this or contribute in any way.

It's this type of apathetic behavior which partly encourages this.

"Encourages"? My inactivity is ACTIVELY promoting the opposing viewpoint?

I'm sorry, but that's some "you're either with us or against us" rhetoric being spouted.

I'll be certain to subscribe to webpages and forums I never visit and post my dissent at people I've never met, about opinions I don't share to encourage people I don't know to move forward with causes I don't care about... because to do otherwise is to promote the opposing side.

Know what, I think I like the trolls more. At least they don't go out of their way to belittle and insult me for not contributing to this "battle".

Yes, apathy or 'inactivity' as you call it does encourage nasty behaviors in this community (and in practically every single other form of medium).

There are a lot of examples of that through-out history, of events happening solely due to populace apathy towards it, this is just another example of that.

 

[DrOswald]

3. Her art is bad.

I half agree with this one. I have seen a couple of her pieces of art and I really don't like her style, especially not the gender swapped Beck (the main character of Mighty NO. 9) she made. But if she can suppress her own style for what the project needs she is technically proficient and will be a fine employee.

Actually, dumb question, was that supposed to be a gender swapped Beck or just her in a Beck costume, cuz that is more akin to what probably was going on there (and is something that Japanese staff on things will do, draw themselves as characters).

My call on it is that she wasn't careful about what she said and that is what got her into "trouble". Replace the gender and it does nothing to solve the ur problem.

No, it was not supposed to be her as the character. It was drawn a few weeks before she got the job and she specifically said that she thinks that Beck should be a woman (because we need more strong female characters in video games) and this is her take on what that would look like. In addition, it looks nothing like her (for example, different hair color and style.)

 

[robertjgannon]

I feel bad that Jim didn't have enough room in the video to point out the myriad of comments that said women don't REALLY get depressed, so screw her for daring to make that game. That was an early push of harassment against the Depression Quest Greenlight page that was continued onto Twitter. That, right there, tells me that Zoe was harassed because she was a woman.

I do love the argument that gender has nothing to do with the harassment when people who are victims of this behavior can show a whole lot of comments telling them to get back in the kitchen (because they're a woman) or how they deserve to be raped (because they're a woman who made a game) or they're a [pick a gendered insult] (because they're a woman). You can point out "but I don't like her videos" or "her art is bad" until you're blue in the face. It does not change the fact that the immediate response to a woman doing something segments of the gaming community doesn't like is harassment focusing on the fact that she's a woman. Are male game developers harassed? Yes. Are they reduced to nothing more than their gender and threatened with sexual assault? Nope.

I also really like the people who say this never happens at The Escapist. I guess I imagined that Critical Miss comic about the beta males/MRAs fighting against feminism that spurred hundreds and hundreds of comments insulting the creators for daring to question the negative reaction to any attempts to inject diversity into gaming. Or the digs at Anita Sarkeesian even happening in this thread that claim she wasn't told she should be raped because she was a woman but because she shut down comments on her videos after people started a campaign to get all of her YouTube videos removed for hate speech.

 

[PortalThinker113]

For the many asking "Well, what do we do?":

No one is saying that you have to go hunt down every troll on the internet. No one is saying that you have to fight violence with violence. You know what you can do? Post a nice comment on, say, the Depression Quest Greenlight page. Vote for Depression Quest on Steam Greenlight. Send a harassed person a kind email showing your support. In short, do something nice that requires a tiny bit of your time and no monetary input.

Yes, it is not everyone's responsibility to be the police of the internet. But, as an individual, you can make a small, but active effort towards making the internet a nicer place in general. Every developer or community manager that I've ever heard speak on the subject says that just getting a show of kind support from people in response to situations like this goes a long way towards making them feel better. Just showing kindness to someone is a small step towards making the community better, and it sure does a lot more than simply declaring it to be not your problem. Even if only 10% of the people who know about the situation do something kind, it's better than 0% doing it.

 

[DrOswald]

I don't think this is true. What I have seen of her posts leads me to believe that she is passionate about her views but I haven't't seen anything that leads me to believe she would do this. I think she is passionate but not unreasonable.

Doesn't "social justice warrior" just mean "person who believes things that I dislike" anyway?

No. Social justice warrior is a term coined by the people to which it is applied. It refers to a specific group of people who self identify as social justice warriors. Now, some SJW's are just highly passionate about ending prejudice but others tend to push that into being unreasonable. For example, here are somethings that the SJW's have gotten up to lately:

A Social Justice Warrior heard a man, a total stranger, tell a rape joke as she was walking down the street. She punched him in the face and broke his nose. This action was widely praised by the SJW community.

Claiming that if you are not vegan you are sexist.

Claiming that any man having sex with a woman is an instance of rape, regardless of circumstances or consent.

 

[Strazdas]

When i first heard about it i just though "yeah, /v/ does it for EVERY game, nothing new here, best thing to do is not to give the clicks. But apperently you did give them clicks and it exploded in a manner that you didnt want it to - people siding with the v-tards.
And yes, people are assholes. Egoistic assholes that only care about things when it touches their convienience or pockets. Seriuosly, this is nothing new, youtube debacle was the latest and far greater proof of this. Its been known for years, decades, that sole motivation for humans is self-interest. Unless you want to invent new species, Jim, your not going to change that. What can be changed is how we percieve self interest and move from "doesnt touch me" to "will be better for me of we dont tolerate this".

P.S. what is the game in the video where you seem to be "Dating"? i havent seen that one.