Jimquisition: To Play The Villain

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SirCannonFodder

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DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
Because in other mediums, no matter how depraved the on-screen behaviour, you're an entirely passive observer and can easily detach yourself from the characters. With a game, you're actively taking part in it, helping the characters to carry out their horrible intentions, without your input none of it would be happening. It's a lot harder to detach yourself from what's happening.
 

LordLundar

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DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
This is a disingenuous argument at best. You're equating a person's subjective review (and let's face facts here, Greg isn't alone in his opinion) as a call to ban game. Yes, the game should exist and the characters should certainly exist and be expanded upon, but that doesn't mean that people should have to enjoy playing them. To make that argument is no different that calling for such games to be banned. A person rejecting a game because he doesn't like the character path is a perfectly justifiable reason, regardless of the path the character takes.

On another note, Jim actually put out why I personally prefer SR3 and SR4 compared to SR2. In the two more recent SR games, the protagonist and the Saints are presented as anti-heroes. Not doing anything for the greater good persay, but in the process doing good things for the city. In SR2 however, the protagonist is just sadistic and it's a character trait I'm not a fan of.
 

Vedli

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Red X said:
Who are the weirdos sending Jim this stuff? You won't send a card to your Grandma on her birthday but you'll seen Jim Belladonnas fist and Furry porn? Uh, the world we live in! XD
They're called "the shattered" and they listen to Podtiod.
 

Something Amyss

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DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
It's not mature.

On the other hand, maybe it's one of those concessions we've made over the years. As people have accused us of training on murder simulators and playing virtual rape games, we've found ourselves (as a whole) condemning almost anything negative. Games like Postal were tossed almost entirely under the bus because we ourselves abandoned them in an attempt to validate our hobbies. Maybe what we should have done was stand up. But as a new medium, it's hard to stand your ground.

Games have developed along the lines of what we as consumers will buy, and so it's no surprise that truly villainous characters are few and far between. And if this wasn't a GTA game, would it have gotten away with it? I can't help but wonder.

zerragonoss said:
More of the point is that some people do not believe the unjustified villain exists, sure people can get pretty fucked up but their is a reason they are so. Like Jim said villains are often more complex but this is because they need a reason to be the villain, so a villain that feels unjustified seems shallow and completely detached from reality.
At the same time, 2/3 of the protagonists in GTA V don't see themselves as bad guys. Trevor is basically self-aware and proud, but he's not even portrayed in a positive light. Franklin is trying to get himself out of the hood, and Michael keeps playing himself up as a victim of circumstance (even though he routinely engineers such circumstances).

But then, SR2 didn't really need a reason for the Boss to be a monster. S/he was just a childish dick. Trevor's kind of similar. They just paint him as a madman and run with it. No real need for characterisation.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Just a minor correction here Jim: In SR2, The Boss didn't kill that gang leader's girlfriend because of a bad deal he offered. He killed her because she had one of your lieutenants kidnapped and killed horribly. She wasn't an innocent caught in the crossfire like the guitarist, she was just as much a monster as any other gang leader in this game.

Don't be like Cyrus Temple. The boss has quite enough damning things on his record, you have no need to make it worse.
 

NerAnima

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xPixelatedx said:
Gay furry porn

Not Vidya related... so I think the joke falls a little flat. Now if it was a gay furry porn between Starfox and Sly Cooper, or two pokemon (there are doujins for that), that would have been fantastic! Jim is a video game journalist after all, at least give him something he can proudly display with his E3 swag.
....Is there actually gay furry porn between Starfox and Sly Cooper? Wait, don't answer that, I think I can already guess as to the answer.

On the topic, however; I do find some joy in playing the villain, at least some times. Also, I kinda liked Overlord, although I would have enjoyed it a lot more if he was a lot more evil. I mean come on, he's the Overlord! ACT LIKE IT!
 

Erttheking

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Steve the Pocket said:
erttheking said:
It reminds me something my short story professor said. If a story makes you feel uncomfortable, it's doing its job right. Stories aren't always there to hold our hands, sometimes they're there to punch you in the gut.
If the torture scene in GTA V made you uncomfortable, then that's a good thing. They wanted to show torture as the horrible, ugly thing that it is and they wanted to show Trevor as an unrelenting psychopath that would enjoy doing it.
Except the point of making sandbox-game protagonists villains isn't to make the player hate them; it's to keep them more in tune with the sort of behavior players will already be indulging in, i.e. wanton violence and destruction. Once again, Rockstar seems to have epically missed the point of their own franchise.
Yeah, I never really liked the argument that people know what makes a game tick better than the people that made it. Really, just because a game is a sand box and has a villain as a main character doesn't mean that the game is automatically forced to be a wacky fun game. GTA V is dark and brutal, Micheal lashing out at the slightest provocation, and Trevor being an unstable ball of violence that I genuinely feel unnerved by and in my opinion the game is better for it. I like Niko Belic, I like GTA IV, but I won't lie when I say that him insisting that he wanted a nice quiet life made me roll my eyes considering how eager he was to sign up for the next assassination mission. And really, what IS the point of GTA? Just jacking cars and running people over? Not really. It's evolved beyond that.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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I loved the characters in GTA5, and ok, they were hateful in what they do. But atleast they have characters, dreams and goals in what they want from life. Just they go about it in a hateful manner. I think that guy that gave the game a 3.5 is an idiot because you cant rate a game just because the characters are unlikeable. Its fun to play as different people, no one is expecting you to feel what they are doing is right. Its why people watch movies, read books and play game, its for the experience to play as some one that isnt you.
 

Screamarie

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I actually have a hard time playing a bad guy. I don't know why, I know these are virtual worlds, no one really cares what I do in this world....save maybe in Mass Effect or Dragon Age, those are the only games that I can think of where people really react to what you do.

But anyways, I have a really hard time doing something cruel or hurtful. So if I have a choice I always go the nicest, kindest route....most of the time. I do TRY to play the bad guy from time to time, Saints Row 2 and the like, because it IS fun but I always have limits, at least far as the game will allow. Things like "don't harm children or women or animals" things like that.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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What really interests me is when a game, or another piece of media, portrays a character as "the good guy" even when they clearly aren't. Watch Jurassic Park 2, for example, where all of the "protagonists" blunder into the middle of an up-until-that-point successful military campaign, getting a massive amount of the (generally less unlikeable) military bods killed in the process. They're incompetent, they're annoying, they constantly f--k everything up and they show zero remorse for or recognition of the consequences of their own idiotic actions. And these are the guys we're supposed to be rooting for. Yay.

But JP2 was a BAD movie. What about - say - a really good game? What about "Wonderboy 3" on the Sega Master System, in which the hero (so we're told) has to take on six horrific tyrants in the form of dragons? Tyrants that are so horricic, in fact, that EVERY SINGLE CREATURE in the kingdom - and some of the plant life too - rallies to their defence? And what does Wonderboy do to these poor oppressed victims? HE SLAUGHTERS THEM, STEALS THEIR LOOT, AND EATS THEIR HEARTS. Seriously. He even massacres the weather systems (yes, this game has "evil" clouds. Think of that the next time you're out in a thunderstorm.)

So since Wonderboy literally slaughters every single inhabitant of Monster Land that he comes across, who exactly lives in this kingdom that he's supposed to be "liberating"? Well apparently... there's a shopkeeper guy (pirate with an eye-patch. Because eye-patches are always a mark of a character who has no evil tendencies whatsoever.) And a buxom nurse that resembles Darryl Hannah in "Kill Bill". So Wonderboy, the strongest warrior in the land, is liberating it for... those three people? And nobody else? Hmmmmmm. All of a sudden, I am less certain of his intentions.

The moral of the story is you don't have to play GTA or Kane and Lynch to get your fill of evil. If you don't mind it coming in the guise of a cute little anime guy with a sword and a smile, you can get it easily elsewhere.

(Oh, and talking of retro games with unfortunately evil implications, in the game "Urban Strike" on the Genesis you can crash a helicopter into the World Trade Centre to blow it up. Seriously.)
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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DVS BSTrD said:
LordLundar said:
DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
This is a disingenuous argument at best. You're equating a person's subjective review (and let's face facts here, Greg isn't alone in his opinion) as a call to ban game. Yes, the game should exist and the characters should certainly exist and be expanded upon, but that doesn't mean that people should have to enjoy playing them. To make that argument is no different that calling for such games to be banned. A person rejecting a game because he doesn't like the character path is a perfectly justifiable reason, regardless of the path the character takes.
I never equated it to banning games, I'm saying it's a videogame. If we know it's "just a game" why do we still need the story to justify all the horrible things we do in them? And in Grand Theft Auto of all franchises!
I'll take this one... because if the character's actions aren't justified in some way, it's simply a bad story. Good or bad, characters need motivation. Now that needn't mean cutscenes of dead parents - my favorite moments of the GTA franchise have just been going off-mission, exploring the world, and wrecking s--t up. I'm effectively making my own story there. But if the characters have to act in a specific way then they need a reason for it.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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DVS BSTrD said:
SirCannonFodder said:
DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
Because in other mediums, no matter how depraved the on-screen behavior, you're an entirely passive observer and can easily detach yourself from the characters. With a game, you're actively taking part in it, helping the characters to carry out their horrible intentions, without your input none of it would be happening. It's a lot harder to detach yourself from what's happening.
Yet players don't seem to have problem when they're being terrible people on their own in Free-roaming.
An interesting point I think. Honestly I don't care HOW many cookie-cutter civillians I run over, because they're instantly replaceable. But if a character in a game does something horrible to another character that I know and care about, I want it to mean something. There may be millions of NPCs but very few characters.
 

geizr

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GTA is not a series that has ever, and likely will never, appeal to me simply because I can't get past the idea of playing such disreputable characters. I will admit this may seem odd because when I play the board games Descent: Journeys in the Dark (first edition), Mansions of Madness, and Super Dungeon Explore, I am almost always (like 95% of the time) playing the role of the evil overlord, and in all of those games, the rules of the game make explicitly clear that my role is to absolutely murder the heroes. For anyone who plays these games with me in which I'm playing the evil overlord, I make it very clear, especially to new players, that this is the nature of the game and how I shall proceed about it, and I am very, very vicious in my role (I seriously do everything to absolutely _DESTROY_ the hero players). But, we all still have fun.

Now, having said all that, while GTA is not my particular cup-of-tea, I do have to wonder about giving the game a 3/10 review score. If the only complaint Greg Tito had (by the way, I have not read his review; I'm just throwing questions out there for now) that justifies the 3/10 is that he did not like the characters being so despicable, then I would have to say that that feels like an unfair score to me. However, if there are significant demerits regarding the games design and construction, for example, poor controls, poorly written story, poor graphics, excessive bugs, poor gameplay, poor game mechanics, exceptionally bad sound, etc., then there is more reason to believe the 3/10 score, and the disreputable characters are simply the psychological icing on the cake that pushed his opinion further to the extreme to a 3/10 rather than something more like 5/10 or 6/10. Perhaps 4/10 would be a more appropriate score in the later case in an effort to give more proper meaning to the 1 -10 scale of game rating, with scores like 4/10, 5/10, and 6/10 having the meanings of slightly below average, average, and slightly above average, respectively, in quality.

I don't know the exact answer. I need to actually read his review; though, that my not clarify my own opinion much more since GTA is not the kind of game I find preferential to play.
 

bigfatcarp93

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I have seen Jim standing in the world of Saint's Row. So scratch that off the bucket list.

OT: Jim is absolutely right. Much like him, I've always liked villains more than heroes, even when I was a kid too immature to understand good character development, I liked the baddies more just because they were awesome.

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

More games should allow us to play the villains...
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Man, I do not envy Jim his mailbox.

I also really like the villain aspect of things. I've played as the hero all my life and I still enjoy it, but exploring a villain or criminal's life is a new look at things. While in my life I always want to be the hero, there is certainly something pleasant about a video game in which I can take any frustrations of the day out on non-sentient 1's and 0's. But yeah, Jim is right, the vast majority of these "villain" games are filled with heroes playing villain dressup who are usually ridding the world of a worse evil.
 

LordLundar

New member
Apr 6, 2004
962
0
0
DVS BSTrD said:
LordLundar said:
DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
This is a disingenuous argument at best. You're equating a person's subjective review (and let's face facts here, Greg isn't alone in his opinion) as a call to ban game. Yes, the game should exist and the characters should certainly exist and be expanded upon, but that doesn't mean that people should have to enjoy playing them. To make that argument is no different that calling for such games to be banned. A person rejecting a game because he doesn't like the character path is a perfectly justifiable reason, regardless of the path the character takes.
I never equated it to banning games, I'm saying it's a videogame. If we know it's "just a game" why do we still need the story to justify all the horrible things we do in them? And in Grand Theft Auto of all franchises!
I'm not talking about character justification and your original post wasn't talking about it either. Your original post was talking about how it's wrong and a step backward in "maturity" to dislike a game because the protagonist is not a good guy. I'm saying that it is a personal choice and is no different than disliking a game because you don't care for the aesthetics.
 

Proverbial Jon

Not evil, just mildly malevolent
Nov 10, 2009
2,092
0
0
That's one hell of a... climax, you had in this video Jim. Thank God for Jim but save us all from unnecessary exposure to gay furry porn.

OT: After having played a fair few hours of GTA V I can see now that the hate/bile/vitriol aimed at Mr. Tito's review is unjustified. Such reaction is almost always unjustified. I do, however, politely disagree with Greg's review.

If I played a character (or three) who killed people for no reason at all and revelled in it... yeah then I'd be disgusted and be turned away from the game. But Michael, Franklin and Trevor (however depraved their behaviour) are brilliantly written characters with their own motivations. We might not like their methods or goals but they are valid goals within their own personal spheres.

Trevor may be a psychopath and I may have wanted desperately to switch back to Michael or Franklin after the first 10 minutes of playing as him... but sometimes even I find myself nodding my head and saying, "You know what? He has a point." He's a complete lunatic, to be sure, but sometimes he hits the nail on the head when he says something.

All the time these characters continue to make consistent sense within their own world, I'm perfectly fine with experiencing their lives.
 

Gareth John

New member
Aug 3, 2012
1
0
0
Mistake from Jim that needs pointing out before Greg Tito's body turns up with a dildo firmly lodged down his throat.

Tito awarded GTA5 three-and-a-half stars out of five, not three-and-a-half stars out of ten.