Jimquisition: To Play The Villain

geizr

New member
Oct 9, 2008
850
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GTA is not a series that has ever, and likely will never, appeal to me simply because I can't get past the idea of playing such disreputable characters. I will admit this may seem odd because when I play the board games Descent: Journeys in the Dark (first edition), Mansions of Madness, and Super Dungeon Explore, I am almost always (like 95% of the time) playing the role of the evil overlord, and in all of those games, the rules of the game make explicitly clear that my role is to absolutely murder the heroes. For anyone who plays these games with me in which I'm playing the evil overlord, I make it very clear, especially to new players, that this is the nature of the game and how I shall proceed about it, and I am very, very vicious in my role (I seriously do everything to absolutely _DESTROY_ the hero players). But, we all still have fun.

Now, having said all that, while GTA is not my particular cup-of-tea, I do have to wonder about giving the game a 3/10 review score. If the only complaint Greg Tito had (by the way, I have not read his review; I'm just throwing questions out there for now) that justifies the 3/10 is that he did not like the characters being so despicable, then I would have to say that that feels like an unfair score to me. However, if there are significant demerits regarding the games design and construction, for example, poor controls, poorly written story, poor graphics, excessive bugs, poor gameplay, poor game mechanics, exceptionally bad sound, etc., then there is more reason to believe the 3/10 score, and the disreputable characters are simply the psychological icing on the cake that pushed his opinion further to the extreme to a 3/10 rather than something more like 5/10 or 6/10. Perhaps 4/10 would be a more appropriate score in the later case in an effort to give more proper meaning to the 1 -10 scale of game rating, with scores like 4/10, 5/10, and 6/10 having the meanings of slightly below average, average, and slightly above average, respectively, in quality.

I don't know the exact answer. I need to actually read his review; though, that my not clarify my own opinion much more since GTA is not the kind of game I find preferential to play.
 

bigfatcarp93

New member
Mar 26, 2012
1,052
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I have seen Jim standing in the world of Saint's Row. So scratch that off the bucket list.

OT: Jim is absolutely right. Much like him, I've always liked villains more than heroes, even when I was a kid too immature to understand good character development, I liked the baddies more just because they were awesome.

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

More games should allow us to play the villains...
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Man, I do not envy Jim his mailbox.

I also really like the villain aspect of things. I've played as the hero all my life and I still enjoy it, but exploring a villain or criminal's life is a new look at things. While in my life I always want to be the hero, there is certainly something pleasant about a video game in which I can take any frustrations of the day out on non-sentient 1's and 0's. But yeah, Jim is right, the vast majority of these "villain" games are filled with heroes playing villain dressup who are usually ridding the world of a worse evil.
 

LordLundar

New member
Apr 6, 2004
962
0
0
DVS BSTrD said:
LordLundar said:
DVS BSTrD said:
We're always going on about how we want videogames to be taken seriously as a medium, yet we reject games unless we're cast as the "good guy"? How is that mature?
This is a disingenuous argument at best. You're equating a person's subjective review (and let's face facts here, Greg isn't alone in his opinion) as a call to ban game. Yes, the game should exist and the characters should certainly exist and be expanded upon, but that doesn't mean that people should have to enjoy playing them. To make that argument is no different that calling for such games to be banned. A person rejecting a game because he doesn't like the character path is a perfectly justifiable reason, regardless of the path the character takes.
I never equated it to banning games, I'm saying it's a videogame. If we know it's "just a game" why do we still need the story to justify all the horrible things we do in them? And in Grand Theft Auto of all franchises!
I'm not talking about character justification and your original post wasn't talking about it either. Your original post was talking about how it's wrong and a step backward in "maturity" to dislike a game because the protagonist is not a good guy. I'm saying that it is a personal choice and is no different than disliking a game because you don't care for the aesthetics.
 

Proverbial Jon

Not evil, just mildly malevolent
Nov 10, 2009
2,093
0
0
That's one hell of a... climax, you had in this video Jim. Thank God for Jim but save us all from unnecessary exposure to gay furry porn.

OT: After having played a fair few hours of GTA V I can see now that the hate/bile/vitriol aimed at Mr. Tito's review is unjustified. Such reaction is almost always unjustified. I do, however, politely disagree with Greg's review.

If I played a character (or three) who killed people for no reason at all and revelled in it... yeah then I'd be disgusted and be turned away from the game. But Michael, Franklin and Trevor (however depraved their behaviour) are brilliantly written characters with their own motivations. We might not like their methods or goals but they are valid goals within their own personal spheres.

Trevor may be a psychopath and I may have wanted desperately to switch back to Michael or Franklin after the first 10 minutes of playing as him... but sometimes even I find myself nodding my head and saying, "You know what? He has a point." He's a complete lunatic, to be sure, but sometimes he hits the nail on the head when he says something.

All the time these characters continue to make consistent sense within their own world, I'm perfectly fine with experiencing their lives.
 

Gareth John

New member
Aug 3, 2012
1
0
0
Mistake from Jim that needs pointing out before Greg Tito's body turns up with a dildo firmly lodged down his throat.

Tito awarded GTA5 three-and-a-half stars out of five, not three-and-a-half stars out of ten.
 

Malbourne

Ari!
Sep 4, 2013
1,183
0
0
[sub]Kinda hoping for pics[/sub]

I've never been able to wrap my heart around games with an indecisive moral slider. If I'm gonna be the villain, than I better be able to partake in some villainous hijinks! Any game worth its salt in portraying antiheroes (Disgaea lovelove) is enough for me, but rare is the game where I truly enjoy my adventure with/as the bad guy. Couldn't hurt to have more games like that.
 

JarinArenos

New member
Jan 31, 2012
556
0
0
Disclaimer: I have not played GTAV, so I cannot speak as to how it fits my views on this topic. That being said...

I have to disagree with you, Jim, about the Boss in Saints Row 2 being an un-redeemable villain. The most compelling part of that game for me was that to a certain extent, his actions WERE understandable. Heroic? Never; but there was a code to his behavior, beginning and ending with loyalty. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call him sympathetic, but it was enough to grip my attention. Sure, you were an evil bastard most of the time... but you were being an evil bastard to OTHER evil bastards for almost all of it. Seems that almost puts it in the same group as the Overlord games.

TLDR: I really wouldn't consider Saints Row 2 the best example of "playing an unrelatable villain". Not nearly the same as Kane and Lynch or (from what I'm hearing, anyway) GTAV.
 

Hindkjaer

New member
Sep 15, 2010
30
0
0
templar1138a said:
I like games where you play the villain, but not really to the degree you seem to, Jim. Still, they can be fun.

As for me, there are four reasons I'm not playing GTA V at the moment.
1. I haven't beat GTA IV or even started on the expansions. One game at a time.
2. It's not out on PC.
3. Even if it were, Yahtzee would have to give it an amazing, orgasm-inducing review to convince me to buy it at release price.
4. It's the annoyingly hyped up game of the day no one will care about in a few weeks. Anyone remember Tomb Raider or Bioshock Infinite? Yeah, didn't think so.

Also, I prefer my furry porn straight, but that's just me.
I remember Bioshock infinite. And the realisation that no one else does makes me sad again and again.
Looking at forums like Reddit, that just overflow with "The Last of Us" post, I feel somewhat melancholy when people forget Bioshock.. That was In my opinion, the best game of the year..

For me though, I want to play GTA V. Red Dead Redemtion was a total blast for me, so I want to find out how Rockstar have (if possible) taken what they learned, and turned that into GTA V.

(Sorry for bad english, it's my second language)
 

redknightalex

Elusive Paragon
Aug 31, 2012
266
0
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I understand that your line of thinking regarding playing a villain and rampaging all over the place just for the hell of it, but that's not why I, personally, play video games. I love playing the morally good person, the paragon, the white knight, etc etc. I see enough shitty things in real life (not gunning down police men first-hand but enough on TV) that I really don't care for it in my video games, which is meant to be a form of escapism from the real world and your troubles. GTA does this, imho, by making life so bad for the characters that your life feels better. And as for villains...they aren't morally upstanding citizens, I'll give you that.

I've thought a lot about why I dislike video games that don't put you as the savoir of the galaxy, rescuing cities and the like, and I think it boils down to the gender of most protagonists in games: they're all male. Yes, some games, like Saints Row and most RPGs, allow you customization of your gender and to play as who you want, however most do not so I'm stuck trying to understand and empathize with a character, who should be a great hero, yet falls flat because they're male. Sometimes the gender gap is that big. I stopped reading fantasy novels for the sole reason that the lack of female characters that actually did something were few and far between, much less even touch a sword and slay the dragon. Move over to sci-fi novels and you get a shit ton of them.

Now, most of the time I will admit that the gender of the main character doesn't matter but I still feel like I'm starving for female characters I can play and be a hero I can see myself as (for why else are we playing video games other than to feel like we're doing these things we virtuall do?). Therefore, because I don't get enough of the hero syndrome most male gamers get, the villains just don't have any appeal.

Jim, you like your villains. That's great. I'll stick with my heroes and hope there are more female characters around who have more than two lines.

As a disclaimer: Yes, I've played GTA V. Yes, I've played as Trevor. No, I haven't reached the torture scene. No, I don't really understand the appeal of this game and I'm not sure I ever will. Yes, it is fun but I'm with Greg on the review. (And I've also gone to a strip club. Just saying.)
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Good episode tho Jim, I very much agree that evil characters are much more interesting than heroes, most of the time. But I don't really feel it is the detachment that makes them good, but the connection. To me, the most interesting parts about them is when we realize maybe we are not that far from them.

However, I find that today we rarely really get any Lawful Good characters nowadays. As many people have said, we are plagued with the BADASS syndrome, to the point in which I simply can't differentiate between Kratos and whoever he is mutilating this time.

That aside, I think the issue is not actually playing a villain, In Games such as Saint's Row 2, for me it works because how wacky the universe is ( not as wacky as 3 or 4, but still very surreal ), Similar to what Vice City, or Hotline Miami made me feel. A bit different is the case of Kane & Lynch 2, that is a very linear game and you are simply witnessing these real horrible humans being horrible humans, which is also quite refreshing.

But the problem with monsters is that they fall into parody and ridicule much too soon. The experience manages to disconnect from you on an empathetic level, and ends up just becoming more of a borderline laughable pyrotechnic spectacle. At some point you are just staying there to see how silly it can get.

Even if Jim doesn't, find it more interesting when the main character IS evil, but ignores it, or manages to twist morality into justifying his or her actions.
I find Joel from TLOU to be frankly excellent, and also dangerously relatable to anyone, and unsettlingly gray.
Similar to James Sunderland, who may not be downright evil, but instead is profoundly guilt ridden.

My issue with GTA4 and 5 Is that they seemingly allow you ANYTHING, but in order to advance your character /s can ONLY do the really dumb - stupid - evil thing, what most bothers me is that dichotomy of the freedom to do seemingly anything in the sandbox, but being forced down a linear path that I don't even find THAT evil, but more distinctly STUPID.
OK, To be honest this does fit for the personalities of some of the characters, but to me, Michael seems very out of character and his switch is much too abrupt. Exactly as Jim mentions towards Nico Bellic, I feel the Ludonarrative Disonance is strong in this one.

You feel like you could run away, do something else, drive into the sunset. But nothing means anything other than what this character is imposed to do, which happens to make him more of a horrible character.

I'm sure this is just a matter of how people play this game or how they relate to the characters themselves, but to me it clashed, and it ended up feeling pointless and one dimensional.
 

Ukomba

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Oct 14, 2010
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You either die the villain, or you live long enough to see yourself become the hero.

Or something like that. That's how it works in Anime at least.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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Fappy said:
What can we possibly send him (that's legal) that tops that!? I don't even know.

You've broken me, Jim! Completely and utterly!

Too fucking funny.
Well, there's always the Oculus Rift.

...IMAGINE IT


Otherwise, I still don't feel this is proper justification for playing scumbags (because whilst GTA characters ARE scumbags, at least they have some sort of forceful motivation), but then again it is an opinion show, so in accordance to the maxims of Tsunemoto, thank you Jim, for your opinion.