Does that excuse the behavior of people that claim to be righter and smarter than the people you put down? As an isolated indecent, I get you, but how many mass internet shamings have come down in the last 6 months alone every time someone we thought was cool says something we don't approve of?Aardvaarkman said:
If you don't care that regardless of the genders of the character, one character is going to play the male role, and one is going to play the female role in events like marriage and child birth and so on, your asking for a whole lot of work, that can screw up in a whole lot of places, that even working PERFECTLY, will be no better then just setting a character to the other sex and cross dressing him or her, something people have already been doing in the game. The best case scenario for that outcome is already doable in game effortlessly.BreakfastMan said:
Not really funny so much as demonstrative of why Japan is behind some countries on the gay marriage issue. It all comes down to one word: face. Japan, like many Asian countries, is a nation of tradition. They have a way of doing things, and they'll keep doing it that way because that's the way they do things. The only way to break them out of tradition is to embarrass them. They'll do a lot to save face. They reformed divorce law because they were embarrassed at how much higher their divorce rate was than in western nations(and they went overboard; if a couple can't agree to terms it can take up to 20 years to finalize a divorce in court). I'm betting that Japan will follow the west when it comes to gay marriage as well, but only after the western nations themselves have figured it out. It's not like gay marriage is universally legalized yet, after all.Draconalis said:
Have you ever written a program of any size? Even changing a couple of lines here and there can create unintended bugs that can wreck the game. That's why you often see game patches that fix one problem, but cause new ones. A lot of it depends on how interconnected everything is. Mini-games could be an easy change if they don't interact with the core programming. Basically one program calling another. But any change, however trivial, made to the core program will take a lot of testing, debugging and retesting to make sure that you don't break the game.BreakfastMan said:
Would you finally shut up with your "If your not for us, your against us" bullshit? Jim and many others explained why in this issue Nintendo did not act in a neutral way.Dragonbums said:
Yes, I have. I have written quite a few programs in my day. If the programmers behind it weren't terrible, changing something like this should create few to no problems. Yes, changing a few lines can create unintended consequences... But that is why good programmers use techniques like MVC and OO, among others. To separate out functionality and logic so as to avoid most of that shit. If changing something so trivial completely breaks the game, there is likely something very wrong with the code.Scars Unseen said:
How about I won't shut up?hazydawn said:
OK, would you mind explaining to me why changing this would be so trivial? I mean, I know I've been ignored in every post I've made on the topic (even the one I started), but I'll attempt to ask anyways. As someone who is just starting to learn code, I am curious on how something that seems integral to the game itself would be something trivial. Although part of me suspects that you don't know much about this game, I'm still curious to see how simple this game's code really is.BreakfastMan said:
Well gotta factor in also your working with a year plus old code going back to when it was starting to be created in japan, And the people editing the code, aren't the original writers of the code. Considering the wacky nature of the game and all the random events your looking at a ton of code to read and decipher with no prior knowledge of it before you can even start to say theses are the right switches you should flip. It's a Giant waste of time to recreate something users can already do.BreakfastMan said:
Actually I am inclined to agree that culture plays a huge role in the argument because different cultures tackle different problems differently, to state the amazingly extreme obvious. Not that anyone could come to defense of Nintendo for excluding gay people, and the initial statement from Nintendo of America was a big fumble on their part, but issues like this are tackled in very different ways in Japan then they are in the US.Dragonbums said:
You are implying there isn't any documentation on the code, or that the code is poorly named. Which is entirely possible, but again, that is a sign of shitty programming. It is possible the game is programmed poorly, making the change super difficult, that is never something I denied as a possibility.Eve Charm said:
I don't know how trivial it is in real life. But I do know good programming practice, like "make basic business logic/rules easy to change without breaking everything" and "separate out functionality, so changes in one place shouldn't break everything" (one of the most important benefits of MVC architecture and OO programming). I also have enough intuition to know that there is invariably an if statement somewhere that checks the genders of characters to determine eligibility for marriage (the game disallows marrying any character you want, so this is obviously something that happens at one point).xaszatm said:
I'm considering what culture they are from, that's why I am lenient towards Nintendo. But that doesn't mean that what they did was not immoral. Just a little bit less. I'm talking about the degree here. Owning slaves was considered okay at a certain point in America. And the owners can be excused to a certain point because they were constantly reaffirmed by their culture that it was fine. That doesn't change the fact that slavery was and will be a gross injustice.Dragonbums said:
...I've got so much to learn because I didn't understand half of that. Fair enough, I'll not bug you on that aspect then. However, I still say that while the code might be easy to fix, there would still be problems in getting it fixed. The biggest problem is that the development team has long since moved on. I don't think any of them is willing to go over to a year old game to fix it solely for a few complaints, especially since they are hard at work at whatever they can do for the Wii U's current predicament. And add to the fact that if they did change that for this region, they would also have to backtrack and do the same for the Japanese version as well.BreakfastMan said:
They are making changes to the game for the US release, however. And many other games have made changes to make it more appropriate for US culture in the past.xaszatm said:
MVC = Model View Controller. It is a pattern to structure a piece of software. Basically, you separate the actual functionality into the model, the view, and the controller. The view contains all of the forward-facing functionality like UI, while the model contains all the backend stuff like interactions with the disc and memory. The controller handles all the stuff in-between that. View only interactions with the controller, and the model only interacts with the controller as well. This basically means that if you make a change to how the UI works, you shouldn't have to make a change to what the controller or model (unless you change the interface), because their functionality isn't dependent on the specifics of how the UI works.