Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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My favourite part of this whole thing is how everyone seems to just ignore you two on every article about Tomodachi... Did I say my favourite? I meant the most disheartening.Dragonbums said:
It's rather funny how on every topic on homosexuality, there's always someone bringing in pedophilia or bestiality, as if the two are equivalent. And by funny I mean exhausting.Kumagawa Misogi said:
And no one's asking for token representation. They're asking for sincere representation. And if people don't kick up a fuss, the status quo will remain unchanged.
"only for Japanese audience"Dragonbums said:Based on the Direct that seems to be something you can do in game. You can transfers your current Mii's (and alter their voice) or make female/male Miis (depending on the relationship your going for) and have them look like the opposite sex- transfer them over to the game, adjust the voices accordingly and have yourself a good ol time.Imp Emissary said:
The issue is that even if he was just focusing on the statement it reinforces the increasingly popular and very bad notion that if "If your not for us, your against us". Especially when it comes to clash with other regions and cultures that don't give a shit about Western ideals. In the case of Nintendo they make a game that is only for a Japanese audience. Japan is a place where gay marriage is illegal. As such it comes to no surprise that they don't put that feature in the game.But Jim wasn't making that the whole focus of the episode and I'm sure he'd be happy to be corrected.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset. It's reasonable to be, when people are using incorrect information. Not just because it's annoying, but also because it makes the people using it look bad.
I know it can be hard, but ya got to try and keep a level head.
"Ya catch more flies with honey than ya do with salt." As they say. ;p
As for the statement itself the original statement before their "apology" statement was basically the same fucking thing. They weren't going to do it in this installment but they were going to do it in later installments.
I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.
bull, Nintendo had always planed a localisation of Tomodachi Life, as such there audience was more then just Japan, it was the world.
This is no different then the problems Ocarina of time and Pokemon had which produced changes in all language versions. If you are making a product for half the world, you should alienate as few of your target audience as you can.
"FE:Awakening"
Fire Emblem is not a simulation of me in a fantasy world. Apples to oranges.
Not every game that has relaitonships needs gay options. If the charter is not gay he is not gay there is nothing wrong with that. If the game is about simulating real life relationships in a weird world, then it should include it.
You don't know much about programming, do you? You have to code the process of marriage in it's most basic form or you're going to take up a lot of space recoding marriage after marriage after marriage. First you program just one marriage function and then then extra code is written to block the event triggers in situations or settings that you don't want. The event triggers have to be present in each human character because the player could be any gender. Either they wrote code to deactivate the triggers depending on which player character gender is chosen OR they wrote code to deny access to same-gender trigger options (or wrote the inverse as a code that only allows access to opposite-gender trigger options).carnex said:
So they didn't just "not program [homosexuality] in"... they had to actively program homosexuality out.
One of Jim's better episodes I think.
He's still preaching to the choir a bit, but we still have a handful of social conservatives here and it's a message worth saying.
I cannot care about some sad waifu/husbandro game, but focusing on the bigger issue was a good move.
He's still preaching to the choir a bit, but we still have a handful of social conservatives here and it's a message worth saying.
I cannot care about some sad waifu/husbandro game, but focusing on the bigger issue was a good move.
No they didn't. They only planned on doing it this year. By this time Tomodachi Life was still an entire year old. If you seriously think that a large company with multiple projects to work on would still have the dev team of a one year old game intact then your sorely mistaken.direkiller said:
So it's okay to "exclude gays" as some people have claimed Nintendo did in this instance, but it's not okay in other instances?
You gotta set guidelines somewhere. It's not apples to oranges. They still promote a feature where you can romance other players. However you are only able to romance male/female relationships. You can't do homosexual relationships. That means that Nintendo is excluding gay relationships. Which also means people should be pissed off about it. But so far nobody has given two fucks.
I just came to the realization that this didn't have anything to do with "Tamagotchi" which is what I heard every single person say in every single video I've heard about this stuff, and I now get why there were only Miis on screen.
On the topic though... I just can't seem to get myself to care about this whole thing, I mean, they didn't want that in their game, so be it, Japanese people being considered "close-minded" and making a comment on a non-issue that a ton of people got startled about? SUCH NEWS, SO WOW.
On the topic though... I just can't seem to get myself to care about this whole thing, I mean, they didn't want that in their game, so be it, Japanese people being considered "close-minded" and making a comment on a non-issue that a ton of people got startled about? SUCH NEWS, SO WOW.
Of course they won't let me see the code. But which do you think is more likely:xaszatm said:
One set of relationship-controlling codes that applies to everyone with an extra set to halt trigger events under certain circumstances.
...or...
A massively large set of identical relationship-controlling codes for each potential pairing of each potential Mii (as long as they're opposite gender).
---
Well? Which one of those is going to take up more space than most console harddrives have access to?
Fixed that for you, and completely agree. Trying to have a conversation about this very issue with my mother made me realize that it would absolutely be a political statement if Nintendo included same sex marriage in a game about relationships. Not because of same-sex relationships, but because it's NINTENDO, a company known mostly for kid-friendly games.hermes200 said:
And we live in a sad world where even those accepting of homosexuality, often find the entire issue somehow more inappropriate for children, more sexual by nature, than heteronormative relationships.
It's the same reason why nobody brings up the actual message Tye said in the Miiquality video. Because if they actually watched it, they would realize that their grand scale World Polices of social justice tactics was not what the man wanted in the slightest.MarlonBlazed said:
I know enough that they would have to add a ton of new subroutines to address scenes meant for couples. It's one function for limiting who you can marry, many over to address scenes that are meant for couples. I'm not programmer, never wrote anything more complex than basic organizer in pascal but I know that much.Pebkio said:
Alternate perspective: as someone who has a somewhat decent idea of what goes into creating a game, the sheer effort of programming and testing all the possibilities of a second kind of marriage is a big investment in manpower for what appears to be the work of a smallish group.
Just throwing my 2c in the ring to say it's not an easy thing to justify when *maybe* one in ten of Americans would use it and probably much, much less in other countries less okay with homosexuality. Most likely it came down to "we could make gay relationships OR that creepy, muscle-textured skin shirt."
Really, would we even have expected it if either a glitch or cross-dressing and translation failures gave us the impression that it might be there?
Just throwing my 2c in the ring to say it's not an easy thing to justify when *maybe* one in ten of Americans would use it and probably much, much less in other countries less okay with homosexuality. Most likely it came down to "we could make gay relationships OR that creepy, muscle-textured skin shirt."
Really, would we even have expected it if either a glitch or cross-dressing and translation failures gave us the impression that it might be there?
I had the impression it was a game Breaking glitch freezing and such and it was just a secondary effect that Same sex of the glitch fixing the glitch removes the same sex since it was caused by the bigger more problematic glitch.Big_Isaac said:
This assumes that marriage in this game is completely shallow and gender a non issue. If you take game design into account then including same sex marriage is much harder. They most certainly would have had to program in homosexuality and design around that possibility. Not to mention that increasing the romance possibilities from 1(M-F) to 3(M-M,F-F,M-F) will exponentially increase the difficulty of creating content and AI programming.Pebkio said:
Frankly, your extreme oversimplification of this issue makes me think you know next to nothing about software development and game design.
I going to go out on a limb and say that the only person that got things right in all this was the guy behind Miiquality: he was polite, non-accusatory, was still willing to give nintendo business and just asked that if it couldn't be fixed to think about it in the future.
The the internet did what it does best and went batshit.
The progressive press ignored any sense of facts to write the usual opinion bits about how wrong it was for the international corporation to not openly affirm gay marriage, and less reputable ones went full out and called them anti-LGBT. The lemming readers, never one to avoid a good twitter shaming of perceived bigotry, didn't stop to ask about context, and went on to vent their usual vitriol about how the rest of the world hasn't come about to the correct way of thinking. People wonder why social justice people get the bad rep, but it's hard to not see spoiled children when your entire argument is "why didn't you think about me you big meanie?)
I mean, I don't think not having gay marriage in tomodachi life is a good thing, but it's a kid friendly, niche title made for a more Japanese audience. It was not likely to be worth the trouble to include it for the NA market given it isn't a high profile, high demand title, and despite what people want, gay marriage is still highly politicized, and not so supported (especially on a global level) as to make those against it a tiny minority to be dismissed. I can't fault Nintendo's decision, though we do need PR people that get that large portions of the internet will throw a tantrum without a lot of provocation and are better prepared to deal with it.
The the internet did what it does best and went batshit.
The progressive press ignored any sense of facts to write the usual opinion bits about how wrong it was for the international corporation to not openly affirm gay marriage, and less reputable ones went full out and called them anti-LGBT. The lemming readers, never one to avoid a good twitter shaming of perceived bigotry, didn't stop to ask about context, and went on to vent their usual vitriol about how the rest of the world hasn't come about to the correct way of thinking. People wonder why social justice people get the bad rep, but it's hard to not see spoiled children when your entire argument is "why didn't you think about me you big meanie?)
I mean, I don't think not having gay marriage in tomodachi life is a good thing, but it's a kid friendly, niche title made for a more Japanese audience. It was not likely to be worth the trouble to include it for the NA market given it isn't a high profile, high demand title, and despite what people want, gay marriage is still highly politicized, and not so supported (especially on a global level) as to make those against it a tiny minority to be dismissed. I can't fault Nintendo's decision, though we do need PR people that get that large portions of the internet will throw a tantrum without a lot of provocation and are better prepared to deal with it.
To be fair I was pretty sad you couldn't have gay marriage in FE. But I also kind of understand when you consider how the latter part of that game plays out.Dragonbums said:
OT: Some people have commented (Dragonbums included) that Jim got the issue of the bug wrong and that's not what Nintendo meant.
I haven't been following it closely so I don't know the ins-and-outs, but I do know that regardless of what Nintendo intended to come across and whether a few wires may have been crossed- many people have been defending the `social commentary` statement on it's face.
And it's not an uncommon argument. How many times have we been told inclusion is pandering?
I for one enjoyed the episode.
I agree. No matter what my game states Vaike and Lon'Qu will always be my gay OTP (but then I miss out on Batman kid too...*huff*)Phasmal said: