Jimquisition: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Jimothy Sterling

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Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

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Jimothy Sterling

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Did anyone else think this was gunna be about Chick-fil-a?

What does a Corvette Stingray and a disgruntled gamer have in common?
They're both Bitchin!
 

Dangit2019

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Has there ever been a VG boycott that worked, like, ever? I still go back to the old L4D2 threads just to have a laugh at the "boycotters" who have L4D2 on their steam profiles.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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GAunderrated said:
Very good episode jim. I can't wait to see the 3rd part of this trilogy.
It was going to be a three-parter, but I bundled two and three together because it seemed needlessly extravagant to dedicate one video to each. So, that's in on this subject for now, though I'm sure I can extrapolate on it more in future.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Great. I can see this being used to justify a dozen meaningless, petty, self-indulgent whine-fests, until we get a situation much like boycott overuse.

Ho well, I'm sure people will find a way to tell people when they're being stupid somehow.

CAPTCHA: hard cheese.
hmmmm....maybe that question answered itself.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
It falls under the "Do what you will" clause invoked at the end. By all means do not buy it. I don't think anything's going to stop EA from forcing Origin on the world, but while you might not change EA's business plans, you WILL have a life free from Origin, which might be its own reward.
 

RaikuFA

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So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
 

Weresquirrel

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There's a great line fro "Going Postal" by Terry Pratchett that is rather apposite:
"When banks fail, it is seldom the bankers who starve."
I know the world of business well enough that when a product or service does well it's because of those clever people in head office, but if things go tits up, it's the floor level employees for not pulling their weight.
 
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So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Dangit2019 said:
Has there ever been a VG boycott that worked, like, ever? I still go back to the old L4D2 threads just to have a laugh at the "boycotters" who have L4D2 on their steam profiles.
For me the big lol boycott was the MASSIVE "Boycott MW2" group on Steam; day one, roughly half of them were playing. And you know, I think that's the biggest part of where the whole "Quit whining, you know you'll buy it anyway" thing came from anyway. We all have this image of people proclaiming that they're going to boycott a game, yet when the chips are down, they're standing in line outside of Gamestop for the midnight release.

Speaking of, while I can agree with Jim's points about boycotts not being effective in the gaming industry, I'm still going to stand by my boycott of Gamestop. After-all, I can still get my games from plenty of other sources; which I think makes a point for WHY boycotting a game doesn't work. I can't buy the EA-published version of Transformers: War for Cybertron to send the message that I hate Activision; and like Jim said, if people just don't buy the game, then Activision (and other companies) will just take that as a message that it isn't the kind of game we want. Meanwhile, the MASSIVE horde of people who aren't really aware of the greater picture in the gaming world (I'm reluctant to call them "casual" gamers, because there's too much inconsistency with what the term actually means) will continue to snatch-up the latest Call of Duty, sending the message that that IS the kind of game we want; because it's what's selling.

In short, our boycotts tend to get silenced by the fact that not everyone who buys games knows, or even gives a shit, about which publishers are good and bad. And by "not everyone", I mean "the majority of people who buy video games".
 

LordLundar

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While I can agree on the complaining, how the complaints are presented is important. Well presented concerns serve so much better premise than " is in the game now? RUINED FOREVER!!!!111eleventyone11!!!" To use Mass Effect 3 as an example again, it wasn't the "ruined forever" crybabies, or the threats to sue over the ending (which was stupidly over the top) that forced their hand. It was well worded complaints at how the ending was problematic for the game and subsequently the business (people won't buy DLC for a game they don't like after all) reaching Forbes writer's ears that caused it, as such publications just as easily dismiss petulant whining and empty legal threats just as handily as developers and publishers.

So yes, complain to get things change, but complain the right way or risk your complaints to be shoved into the round filing cabinet.
 

itsthesheppy

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
It falls under the "Do what you will" clause invoked at the end. By all means do not buy it. I don't think anything's going to stop EA from forcing Origin on the world, but while you might not change EA's business plans, you WILL have a life free from Origin, which might be its own reward.
I have lived this life you speak of, and have been the more enriched for it.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Irridium said:
Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
YES, YES, OH MY FREAKING GOD YES! A star wars franchise (which is a milked but still money making franchise anyway), has an amazing multiplayer, a huge fanbase, and great gameplay on both land and space combat?

WHY AREN'T COMPANIES MILKING THIS FRANCHISE YET!? Don't they want to make money!?
 

Scrustle

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I think often the "boycotts" are just whining. Like Jim said in his episode on boycotting, it's usually a completely empty threat made by whiny little bitches. They say they're going to do it but they never do. If people actually stuck to boycotts then maybe they would hold more power, but they don't. Although I agree that even if boycotts did do what they were supposed to publishers would probably react how Jim says.

I'm not really convinced that publishers care about whining either. It can easily be ignored. A few have said that they have listened, but have they really? And does listening really equate to change? I think publishers are smart enough to realise that even though many people may ***** about something that keeps happening over and over again, people keep buying their stuff over and over again. Capcom saying that they're rethinking their DLC plans is an exception to the rule. Every other trend that gets people pissed is still continuing, even growing. And even if Capcom do decide to make a change, how do we know it'll be for the better? They might just replace their current system with something just as offensive. Take a look at how they have "honoured" Mega Man's 25th anniversary when people have been complaining how the franchise hasn't been given the attention it deserves.

Basically, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. In the words of Serj Tankian, the bottom line is money and nobody gives a fuck.
 

Shadowstar38

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Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
 

Deadagent

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Dangit2019 said:
Has there ever been a VG boycott that worked, like, ever? I still go back to the old L4D2 threads just to have a laugh at the "boycotters" who have L4D2 on their steam profiles.
The L4D2 boycott worked in my opinion, the worry was that Valve would focus their time and effort on L4D2 instead of supporting L4D(1). And they heard that message, or did you forget about The Sacrifice?

There were people who basically didn't let go of the boycott even when valve said they would keep supporting L4D, I was one of therm because I didnt belive them, but they put their money where their mouth is. The rest who are still boycotting are just stubborn, but it dosent change the fact that it did do something even if very little.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
 

CManator

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Good vid Jim, and while I agree to an extent, there is a large detail missing.

WHERE you ***** can make all the difference. If someone decides to make a whine thread on the Escapist or Gamefaqs for example, it's going to go unnoticed by publishers, irritate fans, and just come across as attention seeking or flamebait.

Take that shit to official websites for the game/dev/publisher where it belongs if you want results, and most importantly be somewhat civil and explain yourself.
Otherwise it'll get dismissed as "Haters gonna hate"

Other than that, good show. I actually look forward to mondays now because of Jimquisition.
 

XDravond

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FelixG said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Great episode Jim! One of your best yet, Bravo sir, bravo!

I sincerely agree.

Bitching and whining is so annoying that it's one of the most effective way to (peacefully) get what you want. But please try to occasionally not just whine "this is bad.." try whining "this is bad so do this....", it works even better for me at least..
 

getoffmycloud

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I do think that a boycott of a publisher doesn't work but boycott certain games does. To use the Activision example people don't like COD cause it is the same game every year and it has overpriced DLC and subscription services that only offer stuff that Bungie did with Halo free for years, ok so boycott COD but when they do something like Prototype or War for Cybertron then do buy the game because that sends the message of what we want and what we don't.

As soon as you say I am going to boycott a certain publisher because they have done something you don't like regardless of whether a particular game does that or not then you stop being a customer and therefore the publisher couldn't care less what you think.
 

revjay

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LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!

Also, thank gourd for Jim. I don't thank enough gourds for Jim so I'm just taking this moment to do so.

PS. I'm not much of a whiner so I just hope those that are take notice of this and do the right thing.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
It falls under the "Do what you will" clause invoked at the end. By all means do not buy it. I don't think anything's going to stop EA from forcing Origin on the world, but while you might not change EA's business plans, you WILL have a life free from Origin, which might be its own reward.
Right. So if I really can't stand Origin from a service standpoint in addition to the business standpoint, I should just avoid the game. However, if it is only the business implications of Origin I hate, then I shouldn't feel overly hypocritical for purchasing and enjoying the series I have grown to love.

Thank you Jim. Thank you for your videos. Thank you for the conversations you provoke. And thank God for Jim.
 

TheSteeleStrap

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Huh. Well alright then. Quite often Jim's videos make me nod my head and say "hmm yes, very good point." Then there are videos, like this one, that make me say "Holy shit I never thought of that before. That's TRUTH!"
 

Undeadpool

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Scrustle said:
I think often the "boycotts" are just whining. Like Jim said in his episode on boycotting, it's usually a completely empty threat made by whiny little bitches. They say they're going to do it but they never do. If people actually stuck to boycotts then maybe they would hold more power, but they don't. Although I agree that even if boycotts did do what they were supposed to publishers would probably react how Jim says.

I'm not really convinced that publishers care about whining either. It can easily be ignored. A few have said that they have listened, but have they really? And does listening really equate to change? I think publishers are smart enough to realise that even though many people may ***** about something that keeps happening over and over again, people keep buying their stuff over and over again. Capcom saying that they're rethinking their DLC plans is an exception to the rule. Every other trend that gets people pissed is still continuing, even growing. And even if Capcom do decide to make a change, how do we know it'll be for the better? They might just replace their current system with something just as offensive. Take a look at how they have "honoured" Mega Man's 25th anniversary when people have been complaining how the franchise hasn't been given the attention it deserves.

Basically, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. In the words of Serj Tankian, the bottom line is money and nobody gives a fuck.
I'm with you on this. I really think the ME3 debacle did, at most, force them to move the ending DLC up in terms of when it would've been rolled out, but most likely it just made the whole thing much more public. If you really think Bioware went back and recorded all those extra lines (which Jennifer Hale said she hadn't in an interview), had all those extra parts, AND had three full-on, choice-driven ending extensions (sure, they were just still images, but with the sheer number of ways it can play out, that's plenty), you're out of your mind OR you think Bioware has one of the greatest work outputs of any company ever to exist.

I'm not saying people shouldn't complain when they feel slighted, it's just when it reaches this frothing, unearned, borderline-psychosis of "SCREW THEM! SCREW EVERYONE WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM! SCREW EVERYTHING THEY'LL EVER DO EVER AGAIN BECAUSE CORPORATE EMO TWILIGHT!!!!!!!11"
 

Elyxard

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EA's the only publisher that's driven me to boycott, but that's mostly because every time I've bought anything from them, I've felt ripped off. It's a personal boycott, but I feel a lot better with myself from doing so. It saved me from ME3; best (lack of) purchasing decision I ever made, as sad as I am about what it became.

I've certainly done my share of complaining though. A well thought out and polite email directly to the publisher might get lost into the mix, but not when they're bombarded with thousands of them at once. Operation Rainfall wasn't a boycott, but a complain fest, and it mostly worked as we can clearly see.

I've been badgering Konami a little bit as well, requesting a proper re-release of Suikoden 2. With enough complaints, they'll know they have to give in, and they might realize they can actually profit off of it. That's a good thing.

Anyone who brings up the "entitled" gamer remark deserves to be swindled. Our capitalist system only works when we hold our corporations to actually deliver what we want.
 

jebara

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Jim, I was one of those guys who was hating your show when it first appeared on the escapist, but over time it became one of my favorite shows on the internet, I just want to say I take everything back and keep on the good work on being right as always.
 

Jumplion

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Definitely an interesting point about boycotts and made me think about my own boycott of Activision, mostly because of their business practices, but also because I'm never really interested in the games they publish anyway.

As for the bitching/moaning/complaining, I think it is definitely effective. However, I feel that is has to have some sort of direction, otherwise the complaining will just become a directionless wave of hate where people are misinformed over what exactly they're complaining about. We saw this with the Mass Effect stuff where people complained that the ending was shallow and didn't make sense, and then we got people counter-complaining that those that were complaining were doing so because they didn't get a happy ending, which is a misinterpretation of what they actually were complaining about.
 

MortisLegio

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So basically if gamers want change we must be like this


and not like this


ok

OT: Liked the episode and it explains WHY most boycotts aren't a good idea.
 

purifico

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Nice hat, Jim. Is there a story behind it?

As for the topic - i do both. I moan and ***** and whine to make my voice be heard, and boycott games/publishers/developers to make myself feel good.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Works for me. Boycotting is just childish. Especially as companies like EA produce or release a huge amount of popular titles. But i get the anger, ive played games or watched a dvd that was shit. But, the people that say "im gonna boycott that company" never do.

Moaning can work and you can still play the games you like. An if you didnt buy the game...then you wouldnt moan and then things wouldnt change. :) SO BUY.

I think, instead of boycotting. Just rent. Rent from Blockbuster or Lovefilm. You get to play games for cheaper and you save so much money. :)
 

4173

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Sounds to me like boycotting plus whining would be the real way to go, but I know that's a level of commitment many people (including myself) would have a hard time sustaining.


How effective is lying? I could buy a game and complain about it on the internet as 4173 and send a message as [name redacted] that I boycotted shitty business practice X.

Twice the whining, none of the self-deprivation.
 

Kordie

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Anyone else feel like this is just stage 1 in Jim creating hiw own army? Step one, tell everyone that complaining is ok. Step 2, escalate and organise. Step C, take over the internets by force.

If so, I'm in because this all makes sense. kneel before thank god for Jim.
 

Canadamus Prime

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I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
 

sailor_960

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The truth of this videos' thesis makes me incredibly sad. Have really come to a point where acting like a petulant child is the solution to a problem? What the hell video game industry and video game fans? What. The. Hell?!
 

Jordi

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I completely agree that boycotting won't send the message you want 99% of the time and complaining about your purchase is much more effective.

However, I don't really understand the BioWare/ME3 example. Jim just said that one reason boycotts are bad is that they hit the developer rather than the publisher. But in the case of the ME3 ending[footnote]I'm not making any judgments myself as I haven't played the game yet.[/footnote], isn't that the goal? I mean, the rage here is about the story and not the DRM or anything related to the publishing, right? And that is the developer/BioWare's responsibility, right?
 

Canadamus Prime

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Also I find it incredibly depressing that behaving like a 4 year olds actually gets results and that now this behavior is actually being encouraged. *facepalm*
 

Mike the Bard

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Interesting episode. There is truth in that complaining can be a good method to get your voice out.

But i usually start having a problem with it when it stops being constructive, and turns into a hate filled Godzilla trashing downtown Tokyo. Sure Godzilla's anger my be justifiable, but that point is lost under all the death and destruction he caused. sure your cause gets attention, but your tactics only undermine yourself as negative tactics invoke a negative response. Eventually people will only see the hate and bile, and not the point your trying to make. They'll just roll their eyes and continue what they were doing.

there still is effective methods of complaining. the group that sent 400 cupcakes to Bioware is prime example of this. the notes they had on the boxes where incredibly passive aggressive, only acting as seemingly calm reminders as to why they are doing this. The brunt of the message, the part that caught Bioware's eyes was how much effort was put into this calm reminder. It showed how far people are willing to go to get your attention and how much they cared about what they're talking about. Your cause gets the attention you wanted, but without the backlash of more negative tactics. No one can besmirch your cause by how you got your attention, because all you did was send some cupcakes to a company you know can do better, and you would like to passively remind them of this to the tune of 400 cupcakes.
 

gigastar

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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Given the explosion on the Capcom-Unity blog when Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was announced, i think its safe to say that its just not going to happen.
 

GonzoGamer

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canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.
 

Toilet

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
 

RJ 17

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I still say the 400 cupcakes to Bioware was the greatest incarnation of gamer protest ever. :3
 

RaikuFA

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gigastar said:
RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Given the explosion on the Capcom-Unity blog when Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was announced, i think its safe to say that its just not going to happen.
No one made death threats though, or anything that made headlines. All we got was "Game's canned/not being localized. Feels bad man."
 

Saltyk

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You know, Jim has a good point. As the saying goes: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

If we boycott all games, but only some of the games turn a profit, the company will logically decide that the only choice they have is to crank out the games that turn profits and not to take risks. Sure they COULD make an artsy game with a large cast of intriguing characters, a deep story, a compelling world, and fun and unique gameplay. Or they could make Call of Battlefield 37: World Halo War IV.

Oh God, I gave them an idea, didn't I?

So, I guess, all we can do is buy games that belong to series or franchises we like, while bitching and moaning about the things that piss us off. It's not perfect, but what do you expect? Niether is life.

Thank God, for Jim Sterling!
[sub]I wonder if that isn't redundant...[/sub]
 

Canadamus Prime

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GonzoGamer said:
canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.
It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.
 

Imp_Emissary

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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
(I, finally get to do this! :3 ) (online)

Short answer to #2; No. That would only hurt your case.
Long answer, stalling tactic; Noooooooooooooooooooooooo0oooooooooooooo_ooooooooooooooooOoooooooooooooooooooo. Please don't.

As for how to make Capcom make AA12 and MML3. Well, complain, (with other like minded people for better results), that Capcom isn't doing those things you said, and preferably complain to Capcom. That's really the best way to do it. Be polite, and spellcheck (Crap! Is that one word or two? Damn you spelling!)
MortisLegio said:
So basically if gamers want change we must be like this


and not like this


ok

OT: Liked the episode and it explains WHY most boycotts aren't a good idea.
This post is three kinds of awesome! That is all.
 

GonzoGamer

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canadamus_prime said:
GonzoGamer said:
canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.
It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.
No it doesn't. The sycophants who work directly for the board member's and kiss their asses usually try and keep them from hearing that kind of stuff. They only go looking for it when they...well, when they start losing money for the shareholders.
The problem is that capitalism has mutated into looterism and nobody cares about adding value to society or even their industry anymore, they only care about how they can make the most money right now.
 

Alterego-X

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DVS BSTrD said:
Did anyone else think this was gunna be about Chick-fil-a?
Actually, I think Chick-fil-a's boycott will work on the long term, because unlike most gaming boycotts, it was not a hardcore niche thing, the entire country knows about a scandal, and half of it supports gay marriage.

While it would require actual effort from conservatives to consciously support it day by day, everyone else can passively boycott it simply by avoiding the place, for the same reason as we avoid any place with a bad reputation.

Though in a way, that's the same thing as in Jim's point: companies have more to worry about the long term public perceptions than about momentary actions of a few dedicated moralizers.
 

tellytoy

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canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
This guy just summed up how I feel perfectly.

Also, Mass Effect 3 wasn't good, compared to the first two, even ignoring the bullshit ending and day 1 DLC. If an EA franchise becomes seen as "An EA franchise that is ok for true gamers to buy" then EA will promptly make it homogeneous and bland, so that they can sell it to "true gamers" and the mainstream: eg, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and probably Dead Space from the looks of it. Why put up with bullshit and expect things to change by whining on reddit, when you can just get games that don't have this crap?

Big publishers won't get better. They will get worse. The only question is how quickly. At best, they will remain tolerable.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Toilet said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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GonzoGamer said:
canadamus_prime said:
GonzoGamer said:
canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.
It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.
No it doesn't. The sycophants who work directly for the board member's and kiss their asses usually try and keep them from hearing that kind of stuff. They only go looking for it when they...well, when they start losing money for the shareholders.
The problem is that capitalism has mutated into looterism and nobody cares about adding value to society or even their industry anymore, they only care about how they can make the most money right now.
Yep, their customers and everyone else be damned. This is why we can't have nice things.
 

hermes

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LordLundar said:
While I can agree on the complaining, how the complaints are presented is important. Well presented concerns serve so much better premise than " is in the game now? RUINED FOREVER!!!!111eleventyone11!!!" To use Mass Effect 3 as an example again, it wasn't the "ruined forever" crybabies, or the threats to sue over the ending (which was stupidly over the top) that forced their hand. It was well worded complaints at how the ending was problematic for the game and subsequently the business (people won't buy DLC for a game they don't like after all) reaching Forbes writer's ears that caused it, as such publications just as easily dismiss petulant whining and empty legal threats just as handily as developers and publishers.

So yes, complain to get things change, but complain the right way or risk your complaints to be shoved into the round filing cabinet.
You really think that? For me, it was the massive amount of 1 point ratings in metacritic, the endless whining and articles about, against and in favor of the topic in the months after the release, the spamming of the twitter accounts of everyone related to the game, the use of charity as an excuse to raise money against it and actually sending physical stuff to developers that got their attention in the first place.

Its rather sad what Jim says, but definitely true. Loud and annoying tantrums will get more attention and results than any reasonable argument made under reasonable means (and the ME3 one was the loudest, most annoying tantrum I have heard in recent history).
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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tellytoy said:
canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
This guy just summed up how I feel perfectly.

Also, Mass Effect 3 wasn't good, compared to the first two, even ignoring the bullshit ending and day 1 DLC. If an EA franchise becomes seen as "An EA franchise that is ok for true gamers to buy" then EA will promptly make it homogeneous and bland, so that they can sell it to "true gamers" and the mainstream: eg, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and probably Dead Space from the looks of it. Why put up with bullshit and expect things to change by whining on reddit, when you can just get games that don't have this crap?

Big publishers won't get better. They will get worse. The only question is how quickly. At best, they will remain tolerable.
If only there was a way to get rid of the big publishers altogether without hurting the games and/or the developers.
 

loc978

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MortisLegio said:
So basically if gamers want change we must be like this


and not like this


ok
What a world, what a world.
Reminds me of a song...
Or at least the title of one.
Still, good advice in there.
...I'm still boycotting any EA game that requires Origin, though. Thank god for that final disclaimer (though my principles in this one aren't based in morals... they're based in convenience. I refuse to put up with a separate client and account for every goddamn publisher. Give me hardcopies without online-only DRM client software or fuck you up the nose).
 

Legion

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I find myself liking your videos more and more, although I suspect a lot of people cannot see past the aggression and listen to the actual points being made.

It's also always a pleasure seeing things from another perspective, I honestly hadn't really thought about the other side of what a boycott may do. Although I have seen enough to know that they never really work anyway.

canadamus_prime said:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."
Because in a lot of cases, they can't tell who has bought it and who hasn't. All they know is that a lot of people are hating the ending, and that this fact is getting spread amongst the internet and "gaming community" like wildfire.

While they are still raking in a lot of money, they will be losing out for every person who hasn't bought it due to the complaints.

I do see your point, but image matters in the long run. It is why Valve gets so much adoration (excessive as it is), they know how to make themselves look good.

For example the L4D2 boycott. People create a boycott group, and Valve fly the leaders over to see the game for themselves before it's release. Not only do the leaders of the group openly state they were wrong, Valve looks good for paying attention to the fans, responding, and spending money in order to do it.

EA in that situation would have quoted how many sales the series has so far and what the average rating of their games are on all the well known gaming sites and magazines. While implying that all those who dislike it are strongly in the minority. Which is why people hate them so much.
 

LostintheWick

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You know... I never really thought about it that way. Boycotting a shitty publisher only hurts devs... and you should never want to do that.

Developers are the magic.
Publishers are the money(poison).
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

Watch Video
So basically your telling me it's a okay to *****?

Alright. Sounds appealing. It kinda sounds like a friend who knows your on a diet telling you to have one more scoop of ice cream. It sure sounds appealing. I respect your opinion lol.

truth be told your advise doesn't call for anything hard.

In the back of my mind I can't help but think you spoon fed me the most appealing dec, cause it would go down easier.

But hay I don't have a better plan sign me up LOL.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I really thought from the title this was gonna be redundant. "Oh it's Jim being Jim," but it's surprising he keeps showing new looks for old topics.

Seriously, why can't Mr Sterling write for tv shows LOL.
 

blackrave

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Jim, oh Jim.
I am never wrong!
You are wrong about shrimps (and about being always right)
That makes you more wrong than me.
ENVY ME!!!

On the topic
My Activision boycott started after it became clear that there won't be Battlezone3
Pricks :(
And it seems that this boycott will continue for pretty long time

captcha: i love lamp
You have no idea >:D
 

Nurb

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This would also be a lesson for developers not to let themselves become purchased by the large publishers who just don't give a shit about them or their IP, resulting in a poor environment they helped create for themselves as most independent devs from the 90's and early 2000's sold out to give 3 publishers a near monopoly on the market.

If most developers remained independent during those crucial years instead of the owners seeing dollar signs, the industry wouldn't be so watered down and homogenized.

DRM wouldn't have such a stranglehold on it either.
 

xPixelatedx

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Here be awesome
The truth is a hard thing to swallow, but it's still the truth. Thanks for being the first one here man enough to make a video about this. I can almost feel the uneasy glares you must be getting around the world for having the nerve to say this, haha.
 

The Great JT

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If that's the case, let me get on doing my part. Ahem.

"GODDAMN IT, WHERE THE HELL IS MY SEQUEL TO SKIES OF ARCADIA?! THAT GAME WAS GREAT!!"

Also, I like your hat, Jim.
 

Callate

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I'm sure there's some truth to what Jim says. But I don't have to like it.
 

Something Amyss

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Jim, didn't you do a similar video way back? Regarding being heard by being whiny bitches instead of being mature?

Regardless, Hitman didn't change because of people who bought the game and complained, it happened because people complained, period. Maybe boycotting isn't the answer, but it seems purchasing is indeed superfluous at best.

...Okay, maybe not true, with higher "sales expectations" these days, but even then, this doesn't appear to be the standard. At least, not yet. Dead Space 3 may have a pretty nasty precedent.

In any event, it's been demonstrated we'll be viewed as whiny anyway, so it seems like pitching a fit might as well be the recourse anyway.
 

SEXTON HALE

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Your seem to be right about this one ill give you that.
Though action over bitching seems like a preferable course of action in most sensible situations,which these things rarely are.
I might try to put some of this wisdom into action time to ***** untill I can ***** no more!
 

Jimothy Sterling

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YES! This is what I've been trying to say for so long, this is exactly what's wrong with the industry! Or well, one of the things that's wrong with it...
 

SageRuffin

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For the most part, I agree. There's a big difference in someone saying something akin to that one line Riley said in the Boondocks ("Fuck you, fuck the horse you rode in on, fuck them shoes, fuck yo' chocolate, etc") and "Tasteful, Misunderstood, Nerd Rage" or whatever that video is called. The latter will simply cause everyone to tell you to fuck off, whereas the latter the latter will at least make whoever's listening pause and consider what you just said.
 

The Artificially Prolonged

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Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
Oh I am!

Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
 

RaikuFA

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Imp Emissary said:
RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
(I, finally get to do this! :3 ) (online)

Short answer to #2; No. That would only hurt your case.
Long answer, stalling tactic; Noooooooooooooooooooooooo0oooooooooooooo_ooooooooooooooooOoooooooooooooooooooo. Please don't.

As for how to make Capcom make AA12 and MML3. Well, complain, (with other like minded people for better results), that Capcom isn't doing those things you said, and preferably complain to Capcom. That's really the best way to do it. Be polite, and spellcheck (Crap! Is that one word or two? Damn you spelling!)
MortisLegio said:
So basically if gamers want change we must be like this


and not like this


ok

OT: Liked the episode and it explains WHY most boycotts aren't a good idea.
This post is three kinds of awesome! That is all.
We've tried that. Its the FGC that says we should'nt get them and guess who Capcom will listen too?
 

DjinnFor

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The one caveat I think should be added is that people who aren't going to get the game anyways shouldn't feel entitled to *****.

E.g. the Hitman: Absolution trailer. How many devout Catholics are going to get that game? How many women (or men for that matter) who would be up in arms about the over-sexualization of women in games designed for and marketed to males would be playing Hitman?

Honestly, bitching makes sense in some cases but not in others.
 

Spartan212

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I'm all for complaining, but we need to pick our battles here. If we all start bitching about everything we don't like about a game, then we're nothing but the entitled whiny gamers that a lot of people think we are. I thought we were trying to mature as an industry, no? This just seems like a big step backwards

Bitching about a game that has sexism, racism, or any other isms = good
Bitching about getting milked by pubs with crap DLC or unnecessary DRM = good
Bitching because we didn't like the ending to a game = not good

There is a fine line between bitching and complaining. One falls on deaf ears. The other gets results
 

Riobux

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The only problem I find with "go whine, boo boycott" idea is the same reason you pointed out boycotts fail: Because people buy that shit anyway. Gamers have whined about how Call Of Duty's series haven't gone anywhere in four games, and zilch occurred. They still delivered a short campaign, they still delivered generally the same multiplayer and they still delivered overprice DLC (even making it worse by creating a subscription system that's a rip-off, although even more hilarious if you're an X-Box Live user who has to pay Microsoft £40 a year, and then pay Activision some money just to access some additional content).

The only other problem I find is majority wins, but that can't be helped really. There's no way I can calm IO down and say "look, the nuns thing, people just don't get Hitman if they are complaining about that, they just don't understand that Hitman isn't serious but rather got a cheeky grinning dark sense of humour. Come on, this is the same game series that had an obese man in a slaughterhouse you had to assassinate, who when he realises who you are just keeps screaming "GUARDS! GUARDS! GUUUAAARRDDSSS!", unable to move due to his likeness to Pearl from Blade". All I can do is simply deal with it, and accept the majority rule. Even if they are usually misguided.
 

TrevHead

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Mark B said:
Don't "vote with your wallet" instead "buy yourself a vote\voice" ?
Jim is talking more about ppl who just flat out boycott every game with a publishers name on it even if the game is good and aimed at that person. All it does is stop that publisher from making good games.

How many bad games does it take to warrent a blanket boycott? The extreame of that would be for Sonic fans to boycott SEGA even though they have published some of the best games on this gens consoles.

EA have Origin, but they also have some games on Steam and publish on console.
 

Steve the Pocket

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To me, boycotting games ? as it is with any company ? is less about sending a message I know they'll never get from one lost sale they never knew they could have had, and more about not feeling morally right giving my money to someone so unabashedly evil.

That said, if I were naive enough to try to send a message to Ubisoft about DRM, I wouldn't be boycotting all of their games; I'd be buying the ones that are on GOG.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
This.

But is whining really going to work all that better than boycotts for most things? Much like boycotts, it's useless unless everyone gets organized and whines together. It worked on Mass Effect 3 because that's exactly what happened: shitloads of Mass Effect fans all over the internet began whining at once. We had people donating to charity and sending cupcakes and writing fan fiction and you couldn't turn your head without finding some people whining about Mass Effect 3's god-awful ending. Other times, as pointed out in this video, people whine about the wrong shit. Rather than whine about Diablo 3's DRM, they whined about colors? And of course, nothing changed on either of those fronts. Oh, and don't forget that classic example of people whining about Sonic 4 and deciding to boycott Sonic 4 in favor of buying Sonic 1, because giving your money to SEGA instead of giving your money to SEGA will really teach those bastards at SEGA what for. And other times, you get the diehard fanboys who try to defend the most asinine business practices and sometimes they manage to be louder and win. Congratulations, people who defend always online DRM and online passes, you have made the world a shittier place.

Basically, it seems like we can't win any battles unless we get lucky and everyone gets pissed off about something important and begins bitching about it at the same time so they can drown out the defenders and get massive attention. Anyway I'm going to go buy Shadows of the Damned now, because Grasshopper Manufacture and Suda 51 are awesome and not giving EA money hasn't stopped them from trying to fuck me up the ass without lube in every game they put out after Shadows of the Damned.
 

johnnnny guitar

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I can't believe I once hated Jim, Great episode Jim I've actually thought something very similar recently.
 

J-meMalone

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The Great JT said:
If that's the case, let me get on doing my part. Ahem.

"GODDAMN IT, WHERE THE HELL IS MY SEQUEL TO SKIES OF ARCADIA?! THAT GAME WAS GREAT!!"

Also, I like your hat, Jim.
Yeah it was!

And no, the the protagonists appearing in Valkyria Chronicles was not enough!

OT: A very interesting point, I'd never considered this, and what you say is definitely true.

Thank god for you, Jim.

Edit: Grammar clear up, it was horrible!
 

TrevHead

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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Well just refusing to buy unrelated games won't work, if anything it leave the company with less money to spend on games, less risks and new projects which might well be the game you want. Publishers aren't psychic they don't know why you didn't buy a game, to the execs looking at flow charts they will draw up totally different conclusions and probably the total opposite.

I've seen ppl passing up on doujin games like Exceed (100% indie) just because Capcom is helping out with the digital distro in the west, ie a publisher just publishing a game like in the old days.

If a game looks good on it's own merits (including the DRM, DLC etc) buy it, if not don't, sometimes whatever you do won't make any impact, all you can hope to do is create a big enough stink on the internet with enough ppl that the publisher has to sit up and take notice, and in 99% that'll never happen.

Keepeas said:
Now the real question is how can we get the Call of Duty sequels to stop?
You can't as you probably aren't in the same demograghic and the games aren't aimed at you. You matter to COD as much as you matter to the ppl behind Twilight.
 

PunkRex

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Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
Oh please don't bring that up... the only argument for it ive seen are 16 year olds complaining that Dantes not 'cool' anymore.

HE WAS NEVER COOL TO BEGIN WITH!!! THATS WHAT MADE HIM FUNNY!!!

Still Dante, a shower wouldn't go a miss.
 

PunkRex

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The Artificially Prolonged said:
Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
Oh I am!

Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
By all means totally real robot who is in no way a human wearing boxes, allow me to help you *ahem*... WAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

I wanna kill dimensional shamblers along side Captain Ash, Kalamari and Monkeys again.
 

immortalfrieza

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I said pretty much the same thing about the wallet voters on a thread last week:

immortalfrieza said:
The problem with the "just vote with your wallet" argument that everybody seems to love throwing around in threads like this is that there will always be millions of blind fanboy and casual lemmings that are willing to just snap up anything EA and it's acquired companies dish out, and for ever one of those lemmings that wises up and jump ship later, there will always be 10, 100, hell, maybe a 1000 more. The people smart enough voting with their wallets and being driven away are just a tiny blip on EA's radar, practically insignificant statistically. In other words, the wallet voters are ultimately meaningless, they might as well buy into whatever crap EA and companies like it do for all the difference it would ever make.

What EA fails to realize most is that they could perfectly keep both the lemmings AND the wallet voters as well by not being so dickish to their customers, insuring a nice, stable fanbase that would keep the company afloat for however long EA exists.
 

TrevHead

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J-meMalone said:
The Great JT said:
If that's the case, let me get on doing my part. Ahem.

"GODDAMN IT, WHERE THE HELL IS MY SEQUEL TO SKIES OF ARCADIA?! THAT GAME WAS GREAT!!"

Also, I like your hat, Jim.
Yeah it was!

And no, the the protagonists appearing in Valkyria Chronicles was not enough!

OT: A very interesting point, I'd never considered this, and what you say is definitely true.

Thank god for you, Jim.

Edit: Grammar clear up, it was horrible!
Well both games probably won't ever get a sequel* now since SEGA went bust and is drastically cutting back on what games it makes and pulling out of AAA and boxed retail after these games it has in the pipeline are out.

*Discounting iphone/ browser games that is.
 

RaikuFA

New member
Jun 12, 2009
4,371
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0
TrevHead said:
RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Well just refusing to buy unrelated games won't work, if anything it leave the company with less money to spend on games, less risks and new projects which might well be the game you want. Publishers aren't psychic they don't know why you didn't buy a game, to the execs looking at flow charts they will draw up totally different conclusions and probably the total opposite.

I've seen ppl passing up on doujin games like Exceed (100% indie) just because Capcom is helping out with the digital distro in the west, ie a publisher just publishing a game like in the old days.

If a game looks good on it's own merits (including the DRM, DLC etc) buy it, if not don't, sometimes you have to realise that sometimes whatever you do won't make any impact, all you can hope to do is create a big enough stink on the internet with enough ppl that the publisher has to sit up and take notice, and in 99% that'll never happen.
But if I do, then it encourages Capcom to not release AA games. They use Okamiden as an excuse to not release AAI2.

You probably are wondering what I mean, well Capcom says since the first AAI worldwide sales(which was just JP and US.) were outdone by Okamidens(which was sold in every region) we don't get any more AA games. Logic, huh?
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
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I couldn't give a shit, I haven't bought any Activision Blizzard titles for the past ~3-4 years, which meant that I also had to skip StarCraft 2 and Diablo III, which ended up being mostly the right decision in the end anyway and EA is on their best way there, having not bought Mass Effect 3 and likely looking VERY carefully before I buy anything by them in the future as long as they continue with their DLC practices, Origin-requirements and so on.

If some developers that supposedly make good games have to go under doing so, so be it.
If they want to have my money they know what they have to do, don't publish under Activision or EA, best go independent and stay away from really bad DRM and DLC-schemes like CDProjekt, Double Fine, Larian Studios, Valve etc. and increasingly more developers since KickStarter or at least publish under publishers that aren't led by marooning idiots like Activision, EA or Capcom (e.g. Paradox Interactive, CDProjekt, Square Enix or some of the ones with a "Neutral" rating like THQ, Take Two or Bethesda).
 

V da Mighty Taco

New member
Apr 9, 2011
890
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0
Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
*foams at the mouth*

BAAAAAAAAAAAATTLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEFROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONT 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I'm still pissed about that. *looks nostalgically at Battlefront 2*
 

Lord Beautiful

New member
Aug 13, 2008
5,940
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Jimothy Sterling said:
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Also, it does look to have legitimately good gameplay. As far as spectacle fighters at 30 frames go, it looks to be about the best one yet, if these most recent streams from Capcom-Unity are any example. I especially respect the lack of QTE implementation.

I'm still not giving Capcom money for it, as I am a rabid Devil May Cry fanboy and Capcom's been pulling entirely too many dick moves lately. I resent it for being a gross simplification of what was among the most fluid, technical combat systems ever devised for any 3D action game. I resent it for radically altering the personality of my all-time favorite game protagonist.

I don't resent people who enjoy it, though. I don't resent those who give it praise. I don't resent those who'll buy it. Enjoy yourselves, guys. It looks kinda fun.

However, you can bet your ass I resent the constant, sheeplike bleating that the fanbase is just pissed about the hair. Or that we're just pissed about change in general.

Also, I'm still a bit butthurt about DmC Dante's inclusion in a game titled Playstation All-Stars. Doesn't mean I'm boycotting it, but it does mean I know who my training dummy will be if the game turns out well.

EDIT:
Good episode, by the way. Sorry I didn't include that originally.

Good points.
 

Darth_Payn

New member
Aug 5, 2009
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I think I got a mixed message from this episode. Whinig is annoying behavior, but it gets results? Isn't that the kind of precedent people were afraid the ME3 ending debacle was setting for the industry?
 

geizr

New member
Oct 9, 2008
850
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Complaining about bad business is all well and good; however, if you can't show any commitment to back-up your complaint with some kind of enforcement (boycott, lawsuit, etc.), then the complaints just fall on deaf ears, especially when the company has record breaking profits as a result of the shitty business practice. Not much incentive for them to change if it causes their bottom-line to improve. Has EA, Activision, or Ubisoft made even one iota of movement toward changing their shitty business practices in light of all the complaints and hatred that gets heaped upon them for said shitty business practices? Not that I can tell.

Small companies that feel more vulnerable to severe revenue drops from disenfranchised fans may be more susceptible to make changes in light of a few vocal complaints, but these larger companies that, from all they've seen of gamers' purchasing behaviors, think they can just do whatever and any product they churn out will simply "print money" are not going to be at all swayed by the Internet ***** & Whine Festival. They'll just come up with a rationale to justify their actions and continue what they are doing, making money, hand-over-fist, despite all the haterade being lobbed in their direction, because they know gamers will just keep on buying it. There's no incentive for them to change and no cost to simply maintaining business-as-usual.

Also, people who ***** and whine repeatedly about being mistreated, cheated, or lied to and still keep throwing their money at the person/company doing these things to them is called, at least in the olden days, A SUCKER.
 

TrevHead

New member
Apr 10, 2011
1,458
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RaikuFA said:
But if I do, then it encourages Capcom to not release AA games. They use Okamiden as an excuse to not release AAI2.

You probably are wondering what I mean, well Capcom says since the first AAI worldwide sales(which was just JP and US.) were outdone by Okamidens(which was sold in every region) we don't get any more AA games. Logic, huh?
Ah I get you, well I suppose all you can do is talk about AA, about what great games they are to get others wanting another game. Or just buy a clone, the industry loves to jump on the bandwagon. Ignoring Okamiden won't solve anything it's a totally different game.

As someone who likes shmups and arcade beat em ups both super niche genres, it's annoying not seeing the games released that I want to play but I accept the fact that i'm in too niche a bracket to make an impact and just do what I can and try to keep those and the enjoyment of other games separate.

Considering the large amount of shmups on the 360 for the tiny demographic who buys them it's not so bad. Most STG fans (with money to burn) tend to just buying multiple copies of a game they want to support, plus the (good) DLC, merchandise and OST
 

The Artificially Prolonged

Random Semi-Frequent Poster
Jul 15, 2008
2,755
0
0
PunkRex said:
The Artificially Prolonged said:
Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
Oh I am!

Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
By all means totally real robot who is in no way a human wearing boxes, allow me to help you *ahem*... WAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

I wanna kill dimensional shamblers along side Captain Ash, Kalamari and Monkeys again.
Hey I'm a totally legit robot, its just that my operating system doesn't support metal armour. If only I could upgrade to some newer version with better hardware :p

Anyway I think we've made a good start, though I think we can be more whiny. Do we know anyone who can hold their breath for a long time or stamp their feet loudly?
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
3,134
0
0
Guys.

Nothing works. Boycotts don't work, whining doesn't work, absolutely nothing works.

Not until we get rid of publishers as a whole and give developers better ability to self-publish their IP.

I can cry an ocean over Mass Effect 3's ending and EA won't listen, no matter how many of us do it. BioWare remains in insufferable denial and clings to their imagined "artistic integrity". That tack-on patch of "extended cuts" didn't fix shit. They just don't CARE. EA will crush, burn, mix and repeat until they have their golden money palace, consumer opinion be damned.
 
Jun 11, 2008
5,331
0
0
WhiteTigerShiro said:
For me the big lol boycott was the MASSIVE "Boycott MW2" group on Steam; day one, roughly half of them were playing. And you know, I think that's the biggest part of where the whole "Quit whining, you know you'll buy it anyway" thing came from anyway. We all have this image of people proclaiming that they're going to boycott a game, yet when the chips are down, they're standing in line outside of Gamestop for the midnight release.
That was about 12 people of the group which were currently online. So yeah about 1/2 the first page was of a group that was ~850 in size and of a boycott that got ~250,000 signature and saw the return of basically everything bar modding in the next instalment.

Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Sep 26, 2008
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Glademaster said:
Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
Which, as the video already discussed, only succeeds in sending the wrong message. Activision won't look at those numbers and say "Wow, we better put more effort into the PC version" (which is what the boycott was about), they'll look at those numbers and say "Hm, fewer sales on PC, we better make sure not to spend any more money on the PC version than what it costs to port from the consoles".
 

CD-R

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Mar 1, 2009
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Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
Not buying something because it doesn't have your favorite form of DRM on it? Uhhh hmmmm.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
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Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
Same place that not buying Half Life 2 falls in the case of wanting to buy it off Origin.
 

Redd the Sock

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Apr 14, 2010
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The problem with boycotts is they leave important details in the hand of narcissistic tools that seem to miss the point. They actually seem surprised people might get upset at having content put on the disk to be sold back to us, and as such would blame falling sales on market saturation or lack of interest in the series long before any decision they made. Without some voice saying, this pissed us off and cost you a sale, publishers will miss the point every time.
 
Jun 11, 2008
5,331
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0
WhiteTigerShiro said:
Glademaster said:
Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
Which, as the video already discussed, only succeeds in sending the wrong message. Activision won't look at those numbers and say "Wow, we better put more effort into the PC version" (which is what the boycott was about), they'll look at those numbers and say "Hm, fewer sales on PC, we better make sure not to spend any more money on the PC version than what it costs to port from the consoles".
You really just ignored what I said. The boycott was about removed features such as lean, modding and dedicated servers all which were put back in bar one so all in all it did its job fairly well. It basically made them PR wise say we better put in more effort next time.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

Is not insane, just crazy >:)
Jan 5, 2011
2,742
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

Watch Video
It is incredibly sad to know that gamers, through their collective actions both with and without their wallets, can be a potential force to help change all of gaming for the better but lack the necessary cohesion as said collective. Unfortunately, with all of the petty and meaningless stigmas, labels and differences we gamers possess and, through mindless bickering and constant mentioning, give relevance to such as PC/Console gamers, guy/girl gamers, hardcore/recreational/social gamers, all of the different genres of games, etc. it seems extremely difficult, to the point of being nigh impossible, to gather the masses (so to speak) for an attempt to change things for the better.

Perhaps dissecting these issues intelligently and with critical thought might give rise to some future Jimquisition episodes, hm?
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Toilet said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Problem is, Jim, you're talking about the difference between Devil May Cry, and God of War wearing a Devil May Cry skin. It's like what the latest Castlevania did: if you're going to remove the free-roam aspect from that, and basically remove Dracula, why even call it Castlevania. If you're going to remove the hectic DMC combat, why call it Devil May Cry?
 

Sheo_Dagana

New member
Aug 12, 2009
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Ya know, Mr. Sterling... I was going to disagree with this video entirely, because as someone that liked the Mass Effect 3 ending, I got tired of being called a spineless fuck for not standing up and bitching. But... I have to say, you make a pretty strong argument.

Bitching really does seem to be getting results. Even Blizzard has noticed how much people are bitching about Diablo 3 and are panicking about it. Bitching the RIGHT way is probably the better way to put this. Whining should probably still be ignored, but righteous indignation can be a force to be reckoned with.

Also, all of that delicious War for Cybertron footage got me pumped for Fall of Cybertron tomorrow. Thank you for that as well.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
0
0
I love you Jim

and thats the thing..I like the deveopers of dead space and bioware MORE than I hate EA..I but the games to support them
 

Sheo_Dagana

New member
Aug 12, 2009
966
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0
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Toilet said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Problem is, Jim, you're talking about the difference between Devil May Cry, and God of War wearing a Devil May Cry skin. It's like what the latest Castlevania did: if you're going to remove the free-roam aspect from that, and basically remove Dracula, why even call it Castlevania. If you're going to remove the hectic DMC combat, why call it Devil May Cry?
You, and everyone else with your opinion, is overreacting to the change. Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.

Also, you DO know that God of War's combat was inspired by Castlevania Lament of Innocence, right? They weren't really putting on the God of War skin as much as they were putting back on some old clothes.

Change can be a good thing. My only problem with DmC is that I have yet to like a Ninja Theory game. But you don't KNOW this game will suck. You can't know. Not until you finally have it in your hands and play it (because you know you will.)
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Sheo_Dagana said:
Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.
TO BE FAIR:

Few games have been as heavily identified by their gameplay itself as the DMC series. It's always been about stylish, OTT combat and the rest is gravy. While Mega Man was a platformer, it was mostly due to its roots and was hardly defined by it. Each game did have different elements to it, puzzles to solve, bits that made it not a pure platformer. The transition to third person isn't a big deal for a game that had no reason to just be 2D anyway (though I prefer 2D Mega Man titles). Zelda is another example where there's no need for it to be the way it was (though I don't like 3D Zelda, either).

I'm not sure anyone's ever going to define Zelda by the combat.

If you take away the stylish action from DMC, you take away a fair share of its identity. Maybe it's not a good thing, but that's sort of the identity it had going.

Now, personally, I don't hate the new DMC or the new Dante, and I'm pretty wait and see. But I wasn't married to the old games, either.
 

vezon

New member
Jun 21, 2012
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Very good point Jim.
I will try to give an example as why boycots usually dont work.
Lets say 50% of 1MIL wannabuyers want to boycot. Question is how do u know how many want to buy the game. After the sales goes and they sale 500k copies, the publisher can presume easily that only some 5% bitches are out there and they conclude that only 525k would have bought the game not 1MIL so they will blame the developer.
So indeed as Jim sad, everyone of the 1MIL should buy the game and the 500k should whine on their forums every fu... day. And that would be really scary.
PS. I so on with this "I love game as an art and hate as a bussiness". Sometimes I miss so much the good old days.
 

wild0061

New member
Sep 8, 2008
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Good stuff Jim, I've been telling my mates the same for a while now, if consumers don't complain when they've been given a crap deal, they'll just get the same crap deal again and again and the big businesses will be none the wiser.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
Well yeah, but those people got called out big time. Diablo 3's color scheme wasn't all that "colorful" it was most certainly on par with Diablo 2's color scheme and I never really understood the complaints about it. And after Diablo 3's release most of us figured out that Diablo 3 had a slew of other issues, mostly tied to the Real Money Auction house. I mean let's face it, Diablo 3 was designed around the idea of the RMAH and now Blizzard is scrambling to fix the mistakes the made.

In the end I feel it's too little too late for Blizzard. Most people don't want to bother grinding for gear, and the inclusion of their Arena PVP system won't help one bit. Furthermore, they're trying to tack on some "extra" progression that really doesn't add a whole lot of actual content, I view it in a similar light to World of WarCraft's achievement system. At least World of WarCraft gets regular content updates to keep their fanbase satiated, though.
 

LongMuckDong

New member
Aug 23, 2011
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jebara said:
Jim, I was one of those guys who was hating your show when it first appeared on the escapist, but over time it became one of my favorite shows on the internet, I just want to say I take everything back and keep on the good work on being right as always.
I am in the same boat.. I originally hated your stuff Jimothy, but now I find it the most agreeable video show on the internet.

I love how games can't just be shat out now with no repercussions for a sub-standard product.. devs and publishers know they will swing from a branch if they are developing a loved/hyped product and deliver swill to make a quick buck.

The mob is here, and our pitchforks are at the ready...saying that, I would rather keep them in the garden shed than ever have to use them.
 

Sheo_Dagana

New member
Aug 12, 2009
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Sheo_Dagana said:
Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.
TO BE FAIR:

Few games have been as heavily identified by their gameplay itself as the DMC series. It's always been about stylish, OTT combat and the rest is gravy. While Mega Man was a platformer, it was mostly due to its roots and was hardly defined by it. Each game did have different elements to it, puzzles to solve, bits that made it not a pure platformer. The transition to third person isn't a big deal for a game that had no reason to just be 2D anyway (though I prefer 2D Mega Man titles). Zelda is another example where there's no need for it to be the way it was (though I don't like 3D Zelda, either).
Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying, but remember that Legends came out during a time where a lot of side-scrollers were making the transition to 3D environments and it wasn't working out very well (Zelda and Mario being the obvious exceptions), so a lot of people were worried it would ruin the series. I dunno about you, but the platforming elements of Megaman define it pretty solidly for me, as a lot of those platforming segments could be pretty ruthless.

The point is that you can be surprised by a game, even if it looks radically different from the outset. I've seen trailers for DmC and it still looks pretty ridiculously OTT to me. If this one doesn't work out, they can always change it later on.

But Capcom is, ya know, really weird these days... so who knows what'll happen. We'll have to wait and see. I always welcome change. Like you, I'm interested in the new concept.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
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Sheo_Dagana said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Toilet said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Problem is, Jim, you're talking about the difference between Devil May Cry, and God of War wearing a Devil May Cry skin. It's like what the latest Castlevania did: if you're going to remove the free-roam aspect from that, and basically remove Dracula, why even call it Castlevania. If you're going to remove the hectic DMC combat, why call it Devil May Cry?
You, and everyone else with your opinion, is overreacting to the change. Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.

Also, you DO know that God of War's combat was inspired by Castlevania Lament of Innocence, right? They weren't really putting on the God of War skin as much as they were putting back on some old clothes.

Change can be a good thing. My only problem with DmC is that I have yet to like a Ninja Theory game. But you don't KNOW this game will suck. You can't know. Not until you finally have it in your hands and play it (because you know you will.)
I have zero reason to pick it up. Platinum Games remembers what fun, high-speed, fluid combat is, and it isn't slowing the action every four seconds to add "visceral" components you can brag about on your box. Metal Gear: Rising comes out around the same time, and it looks to play a LOT more like Devil May Cry then this new game.
 

Royas

New member
Apr 25, 2008
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I will continue to buy and not buy games based on my take on the practices of the publisher and the developer. I will also continue to complain on forums and in public, and I will continue sending emails and snail mails to the companies in question to make it clear as to why at least one customer is telling them to get frakked.

I understand where Sterling is coming from in this, I really do, but I don't completely agree. If the publishers take the wrong message from people not buying their games, then they have a marketing department that is so stupid the company is doomed to die out soon enough anyway. And as for my hurting the developer... Wow, is that ever an ignorant point.

I refuse to go with the whole "it's not the dev's fault, it's the publisher!" bullshit. They signed the contract. They knew what they were getting into, they know who the publisher is, and they signed the contract. They gave up certain rights (such as control over DRM) in that contract, and they did so willingly and knowingly. That makes the devs just as much at fault as the publisher, and they get to eat their ration of crap along with the publisher. Don't like it? Stop doing business with assholes.

My point is this... if you lie down with pigs, expect to get dirty. The devs don't get a free pass on this, they never have in my book. They are just as much to blame as the publishers, because they enable the EA's, the Activisions and the Ubisofts of the world. They enable these bastards to screw with us and our consumer rights, they enable them to publish crap in the guise of games. And we help, by buying their shit every year. We are as much to blame as the publishers and the developers, and attitudes like that promoted in this Jimquisition are in no small part to blame for that.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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So I should spend my hard earned money on bad games just so I could whine about how bad they are, hoping that my voice will be heard and that the developer will fix the bad game? No. Just...no.

And for the record, Bioware didn't fix Mass Effect 3. They didn't even understand why the fans were angry. Fans hate the star brat. And what did Bioware do? They gave us more star brat and even more of his insane logic and a retarded insulting analogy about fire or something like that.

Then there's Dead Space 3. Most fans are raging about it being dumbed down for shooter crowd. Is it gonna change anything? No! Why not? Because there are more shooter fans than horror fans out there. Wider audience and all that.

Did Blizzard patch in an offline mode for Diablo 3? No. Because they sold more than 6 million copies. They don't give a fuck.

Does Capcom listen to its fans when they criticize them for making Resident Evil more action oriented? No! Look at RE6. It's worse than RE5.

Were people supposed to buy Prototype 2 just to keep the studio alive? That studio made the exact same game twice! Why would I buy Prototype 2 when I can play Prototype 1? Bad sales have nothing to do with boycotting Activision. Prototype 2 is just not worth the money. Even newcomers could simply buy Prototype 1 which is cheaper now instead of throwing their money on the same game.

Ubisoft is making another shitty Splinter Cell game. And this time without Michael Ironside. Why? Because a lot of people bought the last one. It doesn't matter that many gamers whined and complained about the short campaign and the more action oriented approach. A lot of people bought it and that's all that matters. A lot of people will buy the new one and once again a lot of people will complain and whine. And it won't change a god damn thing as long as the sales are up.

NOBODY LISTENS! Not really. Because at the end of the day, the publishers don't look at complaints, they look at the number of sales. And then they order the developers to make another one just like that because they don't want to risk losing money if they change something. So why should we still continue to throw our money on things that we're gonna end up hating?

The only reason Bioware is listening to their fans about Dragon Age 3 is because Dragon Age 2 sales were significantly lower than Dragon Age: Origins. If more people bought DA2, they wouldn't give a fuck about complaints. In fact, we'd probably have a DA3 right now. Because that's how big publishers like EA operate.

I don't boycott. I make a choice not to buy a shitty product from a shitty company. If that results in that company closing down one of their studios, so be it. I don't give a fuck.
 

Plunkies

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Prototype 2 was a hideously lazy and terrible console port. Activision or not, can't exactly feel bad for the developers of that hunk of garbage.
 

loa

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Why do publishers hold so much power nowadays anyway?
They don't make the games yet their shitty business practices screws the developers over too.
 

leviadragon99

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Yeah... I personally despise EA but buy Bioware games despite that, I just don't know precisely where would be best to yell my dissaproval from.

Of course what steams me about the whole ME3 whole mess is that no-one even seemed to mention the bullshit random "booster-pack" gear and character accquirement system for the multiplayer, a practise that combined with free DLC of more stuff to buy with either real money or ingame currency at a far slower rate is actually pretty clever from a business standpoint but shafts the consumer big-time.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Problem is, Jim, you're talking about the difference between Devil May Cry, and God of War wearing a Devil May Cry skin. It's like what the latest Castlevania did: if you're going to remove the free-roam aspect from that, and basically remove Dracula, why even call it Castlevania. If you're going to remove the hectic DMC combat, why call it Devil May Cry?
A) Castlevania STARTED without free-roaming aspects.
B) Symphony of the Night, one of the most well-respected Castlevanias, bears only a number of similarities between it and the original games. In the same way people are saying DmC is God of War, SotN was Metroid. The whole criticism that DmC is a departure from what Devil May Cry is can be leveled at a classic and influential installment in the Castlevania series.
C) Some of the best Castlevanias of recent memory didn't revolve around Dracula at all.

So you see, a series can change all the time. It's just sometimes we arbitrarily give them free passes depending on how we're feeling.
 

ThunderCavalier

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It's abso-fucking-lutely scary when what Jim said this episode actually makes a lot of sense.

I honestly don't want to reinforce the stereotype that all gamers are whiny, entitled bitches, but... it does seem to work. ... Sadly.
 

Hitchmeister

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Two things slightly related to this topic.

Brilliant, innovative, creativity presented with a few minor flaws seems to be far worse than steaming piles of bland mediocrity.

Publishers need to realize that virtually no games will ever bee the biggest selling thing in the history of gaming. As such, they need to balance their expectation towards a desirable return on investment and budget games accordingly. "We can reasonably expect this game to make $X million, so we'll give the studio a budget of $Y million to make it. If they can't deliver on that, we'll lose money so they need to find someone else to finance this flop." It's either that or try to sell big budget AAA titles at $100 for the standard edition, but that would probably result in reduced sales to bring the total back down to the same figure.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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You know, I wanted to buy Sleeping Dogs on PS3, but decided not to because it's a port of not acceptable quality.
But after seeing this... I will buy it and follow Jim's advise. It does work, look at Bayonetta - sold primarily as PS3 version, which is not up to standard, result? Next game from it's dev, Vanquish, developed on PS3 first and actually overall looks better than Bayonetta (either version).
 

Sheo_Dagana

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
I have zero reason to pick it up. Platinum Games remembers what fun, high-speed, fluid combat is, and it isn't slowing the action every four seconds to add "visceral" components you can brag about on your box. Metal Gear: Rising comes out around the same time, and it looks to play a LOT more like Devil May Cry then this new game.
Fair enough, as Jim says, buy what you want (always been a proponent of this). Metal Gear Rising does look awesome. But think about what you're saying right there; Metal Gear Rising is a HUGE departure from the series. Stealth and tactical action replaced by button-mashing hack 'n slash? Blasphemous. I personally think it's going to be cool, but it's basically (in your terms) Devil May Cry with a Metal Gear skin.

So... it's okay for one series to change it up, but it's NOT okay for another series to change things in the exact same way?
 

Epona

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Even talking about boycotts is discouraged by people who say "you'll ***** and moan and buy it anyway". Those people do more harm than anyone else I think because you can't organize a boycott or even encourage others to do it if you can't fuckin' talk about it.

Also, boycotss are useless without bitching and moaning. Do you think Nintendo knows why I didn't buy NSMB 2 if I haven't made my reason known?
 

irishda

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

Watch Video
Or, and this is a super novel idea, boycott the products that represent your problem with the company, rather than just lump everything the company does under the sun into a "this must be evil" category.

I mean for fuck's sake, is it so hard to exercise some goddamn discretion? "Gee, this product isn't even remotely similar to the fare which I feel is detrimental to the industry. Fuck it, better boycott it anyways CUZ ACTERVISIONZ MAKE EVIL!!!!"

Not to mention the biggest problem with whining, a problem which you mentioned in the very beginning of your video in fact: Gamers can't stand united on anything. Now lets throw into the mix that the thing they stand for is usually completely subjective (this color scheme is cartoony/this ending is lame/game's too hard). How united are they on that? Mass Effect 3 had a huge variety to their ending complaints, and each sect believed theirs was the only one. Anytime someone responded to one complaint, the others returned with a cacophony of "you just don't understand the real issue".

Look at WoW. The most popular PC game for the better part of a decade, yet the forums are constantly filled with "this is wrong, that is wrong, this class is OP, my class is underpowered, game is dead, why isn't any blues responding to my complaints, etc.". I think Penny Arcade even made a joke about how being a forum moderator was one of the circles of development hell.

The point is let's try to make an effort at not being one of the shittiest customer bases on the planet by not being the only customers who buy a product, then demand it be changed to what they want. Everyone else on the planet learned to just look for other products that suit their tastes, why is it so hard for us?

Honestly, Jim, for a guy who touts his superiority (a character, I know), this character sure does have the exact same viewpoints as everyone else on the internet.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Sheo_Dagana said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
I have zero reason to pick it up. Platinum Games remembers what fun, high-speed, fluid combat is, and it isn't slowing the action every four seconds to add "visceral" components you can brag about on your box. Metal Gear: Rising comes out around the same time, and it looks to play a LOT more like Devil May Cry then this new game.
Fair enough, as Jim says, buy what you want (always been a proponent of this). Metal Gear Rising does look awesome. But think about what you're saying right there; Metal Gear Rising is a HUGE departure from the series. Stealth and tactical action replaced by button-mashing hack 'n slash? Blasphemous. I personally think it's going to be cool, but it's basically (in your terms) Devil May Cry with a Metal Gear skin.

So... it's okay for one series to change it up, but it's NOT okay for another series to change things in the exact same way?
That's why they did what fans have been asking of Team Ninja to do with DMC this whole time: they changed the name. Metal Gear: Solid is the stealth games starring Snake. Metal Gear: Rising are the action games starring Raiden. For all intents and purposes, it's a different series, in the same universe.
 

FoolKiller

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Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
I'm in.

As for the boycotts. I'm a massive jerk about how I do it. I'm a console gamer and I will only buy 3 or 4 publishers stuff used. I don't care for multiplayer and in most cases I don't lose out that much.

For Mass Effect 3, I feel no guilt anyways because I started the story before it was an EA franchise or EA had crushed their own reputation under their greed.


Finally, in many cases the boycotts I take part in ARE where the publisher is the developer. Capcom, EA, Konami.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Sheo_Dagana said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
I have zero reason to pick it up. Platinum Games remembers what fun, high-speed, fluid combat is, and it isn't slowing the action every four seconds to add "visceral" components you can brag about on your box. Metal Gear: Rising comes out around the same time, and it looks to play a LOT more like Devil May Cry then this new game.
Fair enough, as Jim says, buy what you want (always been a proponent of this). Metal Gear Rising does look awesome. But think about what you're saying right there; Metal Gear Rising is a HUGE departure from the series. Stealth and tactical action replaced by button-mashing hack 'n slash? Blasphemous. I personally think it's going to be cool, but it's basically (in your terms) Devil May Cry with a Metal Gear skin.

So... it's okay for one series to change it up, but it's NOT okay for another series to change things in the exact same way?
That's why they did what fans have been asking of Team Ninja to do with DMC this whole time: they changed the name. Metal Gear: Solid is the stealth games starring Snake. Metal Gear: Rising are the action games starring Raiden. For all intents and purposes, it's a different series, in the same universe.
The game was always called Metal Gear Rising, even back when it was being worked on by Konami before being given to Platinum games. I understand the difference in the titles, although the Metal Gear games were ALSO stealth games before they added Solid to the title.

But see, Castlevania added a subtitle in the same way, yet you complain about Castlevania playing like God of War and not like Metroid (which the originals were not). Lords of Shadow is a reboot and effectively not even a part of the original story. If you're saying fans would forgive DmC for adding a subtitle or something, that seems more than a little silly.

What it boils down to is this:
Jimothy Sterling said:
So you see, a series can change all the time. It's just sometimes we arbitrarily give them free passes depending on how we're feeling.
You are giving Metal Gear a pass for the same thing you are getting upset with DmC and Castlevania about. I guess it just doesn't make much sense to me, but to each his own.
 

Evil Smurf

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this makes me worried about Valve nerfing mvm and MANN UP mode. Please don't do it! I like hard!
 

gozer9

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well, whining and throwing tantrums - if done on the scale that draws publicity- is certainly an option that could make publishers worry a bit ... and thats why things like steam or origin are here. try something like that and *poof* goes your account along with all the games you had ... you were baaad person for complaining about a game, you made their CEO cry ... so read section 1524 (subsection 86, paragraph 854589/2) of the EULA where (writen in size 2 wingdings font) it states that they can not only freeze/delete your account whenever they want to (including saying anything that even remotely resembles criticism), but they can also use your house, sacrifice your firstborn son to Cthulhu and sell both your kidneys on black market to make some extra money
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Hey Jim, you know what happened when people bitched about ME3? You know what EA did? You know what they got from all that? THIS:

http://i.imgur.com/50TOt.png

And then they released and even shittier ending and more paid DLC. If fanbois want to buy shit they can go right ahead. There are plenty of old titles to last one decades and they were made by more talented people who were capable of making a game without adding in dubstep or rock riffs or rewarding the player for paltry things like "reloading the gun" and were able to make emotional elements without photorealism. They make the industry today look like it is full of hacks.

Publishers will continue to make shit no matter what because it is requires less thought and brings in the most money from the 12-year-old minded screaming dipshit demographic. It really sucks for developers, but publishers will always make harmful decisions because they exist only to make money. They will abandon slightly older titles to hackers, they will release expansion packs for full price, they will try to digitize everything to kill retail and keep the price up forever, they will remove parts of games and resell it to you for a premium, they will charge you 15USD for 3 multiplayer maps, they will add online only single player, they will add in premium paid for content that gameplay will become dependent on, they will open their own digital distribution service and add whatever they want to the EULA if they think they can get away with it.
 

Strazdas

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You know why boycott dont work? because it only exists on paper. In reality 99 of 100 people who scream "im boycotting this im boycotting that" still buys the game and plays it in silence, without even complaining because they dont want everyone to know they are playing and not boycotting. This is why boycotting doesnt work. If all people who wanted to send a messadge would not buy the game, and a big one, like say ME3. if ME3 sold like 100.000 copies total and they were bombarded by emails saying "im not buying because im boycotting you for reason x" that woudl send a messadge. Now loosing 100.000 of 10.000.000 audience isnt sending a messadge at all.

P.S. you liked transformers game,
 

trollintraining

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my fear is not that the whiners are whinning about incredibly nosencical things but that devs and publishers listen and change the game to fit the bad demands. the world is so weird
 

Therumancer

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Seems to be the opposite of other things that have been said in The Jimquisition before.

My opinion is somewhere between these extremes. Whining without anything behind it, is easy to ignore. It leads to the dismissive "well if you don't like it, don't play it" response which is absolutly insane because by the time you have a game that you don't like the guy saying that already got their money and isn't in any position where they are forced to provide a refund.

I think you need to whine about a product, make it clear your not going to buy something and WHY, and then go through with it, as opposed to QQing before a release and then purchusing the game anyway. When it comes to franchises, or the ongoing work of a specific company, you can pretty much jump on this in the middle of a series. For example, I bought "Old Republic Online", "Dragon Age 2", and "Mass Effect 3" all of which were trash for slightly differant reasons, involving elements that basically ruined the entire product for me, and a decent number of people. I've complained about it at great length for substantial periods of time, but I've done more than that in saying that I won't continue to support these franchises, or the work of Bioware, if they continue down this path, and I've stuck with it. I didn't buy any of the DLC for "Dragon Age 2" or "Mass Effect 3" despite having bought plenty of it for other games in the franchise. It hasn't gone unnoticed that for all of the comments about "Dragon Age 2" being a success, their last and apparently most major DLC pack was cancelled, which leads me to believe that despite brave faces they wound up not getting the mileage that they intended. With Mass Effect 3, their free "extension" of the ending is irrelevent to me, polishing up a turd still make something a turd, I'm not going to support the game by buying ANY of their DLC, and have actively been encouraging people to NOT buy things like the upcoming "Leviathan" pack. What's more I'm willing to carry this anger on to other products, basically I'm quite frank in saying that as things are going now I am not going to buy any more Bioware products, or games from this franchise, as long as they continue down this path and keep releasing turds. To be honest with their next games I'll probably only decide to buy them once the games have been out for a while, and once I know what is what with them, including whether they have an appropriate ending.

Whining in of itself does nothing, but whining backed by action, well that DOES do something, and I think the differance here is that your seeing action to go with the QQing which EA has started to notice. It's not an organized boycott, but it is costing EA money.

I'll also say that IMO a developer being hurt isn't a big deal in most cases. There will always be more developers. If the product isn't good, or is tied to business practices that ruin my enjoyment of it (such as having to slog through DRM) the developer deserves the flak for it. What's more the devs are just as greedy as the publishers, computers and office space aren't that expensive in comparison to game budgets, the rising development costs go to human resources (ie to pay the devs to make games). Companies like Bioware don't sell out to EA because they naively feel it's "the only way to get involved in the industry", heck to get EA's attention you usually have to be fairly successful... they sell out to EA because EA will give them bigger budgets, which amounts to more money into the developer's pockets. Companies like Bioware who go over to something like EA are selling out in a very real sense, just like an indie band selling out to a big label.

One thing you might want to pay attention to on this latter point is how much money some of these guys get paid. Despite pretensions of poverty and being "normal" most people involved in game development are quite well off by normal standards, but the ones you have to look at are the names involved at the top of game development studios. The paydays someone like an Itigaki (he fought over like 20 million dollars he was supposed to be paid at one point), or a Peter Molyneux, or the equivilent pull down are insane, we're talking movie-star type money coming out of that game development budget just to pay them before anything else. The thing is that companies like EA and Activision can afford to pay these guys more money than they could take out of a more humble publisher or self publishing arrangement.

People tend to forget about things like the "Infinity Ward Scandal" or if they remember it they remember the bit with Bobby Kotick using security to raid the studio. People increasingly forget about these truely huge bonuses that the guys in the studio were promised... money most would consider "too good to be true", but it says a lot that nobody there even blinked an eye when they were promised that kind of cash for delivering the product, even if there was a raid that basically cost them the bonus. It says a lot about the mentality and finances involved, that 'bonus' was doubtlessly part of the budget allotted to make the game (companies like Activision generally don't dip into their own profits, and things like bonuses are planned out).

The bottom line is that a developer that gets involved with a publisher can't say "hey, this intrusive DRM isn't our fault", or use other scapegoats to point fingers at the publisher and claim innocence, they are equally responsible. In the end the entire reason why this happens is they decided they were willing to see those things done in exchange for more money.

I'll also say that few people keep track of such things specifically, but you'll notice the heads of failed studios tend to be-bop around places and work with other companies afterwards. These guys generally have quite a golden parachute which is part of the problem as well. Whether a game succeeds or fails doesn't matter so much when you've got a few million dollars sticking out of your back pocket just for having your guys work on the project. I think a lot of the problem comes down to the simple fact that devs start dialing it in and ceasing to care (at least on the top) once they have a juicy contrat, because they know they're set, and anything they do from that point on is just gravy. If Bioware collapses the guys at the top of the studio probably aren't going to exactly have to go sit in the unemployment line, or live out of their cars or whatever, heck most of them will probably never have to work another day again at this point unless they really want to. I don't know what they are getting, but looking at other examples it's probably a LOT which is why they decided to sell out to EA.
 

Atmos Duality

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I see the practicality of the matter Mr. Sterling, really I do, but I refuse to perpetuate the problem any further.

Because the problem is, and always has been the publishers and their oligopoly.
They've built the system to fail with them; effectively holding game developers, talent and what they offer hostage in exchange for customer compliance.

In doing so, they expect to extort more from us just because they say so. Closed distribution. Virtual monopoly. Price gouging on content. Ridiculous stipulations in their EULAs.
It's an oligopoly.

Yet, for the first time in years, we're on the cusp of watching an industry giant not only fall, but fall for good. EA is teetering on the brink of destruction if their flip-flopping hamhanded statements and continued shareholder shuffling is any indication.

And it's not just them.
Activision is down to a handful of core games; their parent company Vivendi is on the record for considering selling them. Blizzard is taking real flak for the first time in their company's history with the financially successful, but critically ambivalent Diablo 3 (which is still hemorrhaging players).

Ubisoft is shuffling their feet unsure about anything but core console sales even while the current generation dies out and PC grows.

Nintendo has effectively pulled out of the AAA market entirely to play Second Hand Sam and cater to the casuals (no really, I don't think Mario and company occupy quite the same market space they used to), and the Japanese publisher giants are as incompetent as ever, dealing with domestic market crisis.

To get more to the point: Why is Double Fine even getting such lavish support?
Why are people willing to throw such scratch at a new console?

Because for the first time in 7 years, there is not only breathing room for small studios to grow, but there is real demand for what they want to create that the publishers won't green light; growth OUTSIDE of the publisher-studio model.

The silent majority are finally starting to tire of these publishers' bullshit.
The problem I have with just going out to whine is that whining has been around for as long as we've had the Internet to whine from, and largely, it has done NOTHING until recent years.

Whining and petitions for less offensive marketing? Specific remakes? Closer deadlines? Localizations and ports?
Virtually NONE of these were even considered until these companies started falling, and looking at the bottom for the first time in years.

They're being forced into looking at alternatives not because of whining, but because they're desperately looking for anything they can latch onto to keep their oligopoly going. The system they've built to milk the market at the minimum effort is failing, and they know it.

So if whining is the loudest thing they hear, they *will* listen.

Alternatively, I'm of the mind that if they refuse to listen to Demand at all, then economics will sort them out regardless. Let them burn if they want to be petulant and keep trying to dictate what both Supply and Demand MUST accept.
Remind them who keeps them in business.

Maybe whoever replaces them will get the message.
If not, in the words of Khan:
"Explain it to them."
 

Katya Topolkaraeva

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Damn that is actually a really good point i had not thought of (not being one to boycott or wine but do keep up with the news of others doing it) awesome perspective Jim! Thank god for you i guess!
 

Kouen

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Made good sense, was to the point and logical

Top video Jim
 

Gunner 51

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sailor_960 said:
The truth of this videos' thesis makes me incredibly sad. Have really come to a point where acting like a petulant child is the solution to a problem? What the hell video game industry and video game fans? What. The. Hell?!
I can empathise with you on this one, Sailor. There is just so much wrong with gamers themselves that they simply lack the self awareness to notice, it's really quite saddening.

While Mr Sterling entertains the noition of loud wailing, I also think he's very, very wrong. He's clearly not heard of what I call the Car Alarm Principle. When they were new, when people rarely heard a car alarm, they all poked their heads around the corner to investigate the cacophony. These days, those people couldn't care less about the noise.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if gamers threw enough tantrums the publishers eventually learn to tune it out. Mr Sterling really doesn't help things with his immature stance and I think he reflects very badly upon gamers and makes us all look like spoilt brats who need a damned good hiding.

Gamers wish to be treated like adults, but act like spoilt children the minute something rankles them. Boycotting would work if the gamers had the will of an adult and stuck to their decision not to buy it - but instead they buckle under peer pressure and slick marketing like children.

I haven't purchased a single Activision game in about two years - because I beleived that their overcharging was bordering on extortionate. As an adult, I took my custom elsewhere. As a regular and oft game buyer, that's £480 a year they won't be getting from me. Multiply that by a few million more gamers, and that'll put a VERY large dent in Activision's coffers. OK, the developers will suffer for it - but we as gamers have to realise that publishers cannot survive without developers. The publishers will have to bow down to gamers if they matured and stuck to their guns.

To us, gaming is a luxury. To publishers it's what keeps them in penthouse suits. Using the developers as hostages will not work against me.
 

-|-

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sailor_960 said:
The truth of this videos' thesis makes me incredibly sad. Have really come to a point where acting like a petulant child is the solution to a problem? What the hell video game industry and video game fans? What. The. Hell?!
Gamers are the biggest whiners on the planet. Most of the threads on the escapist are whining. I despise them.
 

CarlMin

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I guess I can't always agree with Jim. I think the last thing we gamers should do if we want big publishers to take us seriously is to constantly whine while at the same time buying all their games.

See, EA don't care as long as they are making money. Back RP doesn't matter as long as long as you got high sales. Why on earth would it? The only thing this will accomplish is making it even more annoying to be a part of the gaming community, because everyone would be whining more than they already are.
 

MB202

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There have been SOME things gamers can unite on, like Operation Rainfall, although that wasn't specifically a boycott... I WISH gamers actually took games seriously rather than just demanding that everyone else take THEM seriously (not the games, but rather their medium). Still, what Jim says makes sense, if you refuse to buy from certain companies, you miss out on a lot of actually GOOD stuff that just happen to be under their name. So, while I was very confused by the title of this episode, what he says DOES make sense. It helps to actually use your brain and think about what you should do to help make the industry a better play then just saying "I'm going to boycott Activison" and stuff... Unfortunately, it kind of makes me mad to see that the publishers are dodging responsibility and blaming everyone else for what they do and losing money rather then themselves. I guess most people don't think whining or complaining will help because they don't see or feel the immediate effects, and because they're one in a million, and figure why would they read my complaints specifically. Of course, if some gamers were more well-organized and managed their complains properly, perhaps it will get through... Just a thought.
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

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Oh I do absolutely love this show, and every episode has me in stitches, but it also makes me sad when things that are bad in the industry are pointed out. This video reminded me that Radical were closed down and that upset me, and it reminded me of how much I FUCKING hate CoD'z existence in gaming. As someone who wants to work in the industry I don't want to end up working on a CoD clone, or work at a studio that then gets laid off after pouring work into a game that then doesn't sell well because the publishers are horrible people.
 

Mike Fang

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Mar 20, 2008
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This actually creates a serious conundrum. On the one hand, buying something and then harshly criticizing it puts you in a position to say "I know what I'm talking about, I've played it." On the other hand, if a company is truly uncaring (like how people say EA is these days) they don't give a shit about the complaints so long as they're still getting the money. And since you feel the need to buy a game to validate your opinion to others on it, they'll still get the money from you, so your satisfaction (or lack thereof) doesn't even register to them.

The possibility that boycotting sends the wrong message seems like a valid one, and that a publisher will shift the blame unfairly to a developer and innocent people suffer for it is likely the truth. It really is one of those situations where as long as the company has you by the balls, holding the license to a favorite game franchise, your heart and mind might not follow, but your wallet sure will.

Now that isn't to say the buy-but-still-criticize plan of action is a bad idea. It could potentially work for a company that genuinely cares about customer satisfaction. Also, there is one possibility that could make it work even for those companies who don't care; they could be concerned about lost future customers. If a game franchise has devoted fans reaming out the publishing company for its practices while still buying games, the publisher might become concerned that this anger and frustration will get the attention of prospective customers who don't have a personal interest in a franchise, but could if they don't hear a lot of shit being thrown at the company. It all depends on whether the company is concerned about increasing its customer base. This might seem like a no brainer, that of course they would...but I wouldn't be so sure. If a publisher produces enough popular games or game series, then they could ensure enough profit from the dedicated fan base to keep themselves afloat, possibly even had enough left over to grow a certain amount for a given period of time before plateauing.

I personally can't say which strategy I think is best. Both have merits, both have drawbacks. In the end, I guess it depends on the given situation.
 

Popido

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My boycotting is going just fine. Every game that I hate is not reaching their marketing budget and unable to make profit. Bad PR reaches further than paid one. Or rather, it hitches a ride on paid PR. When you point out that the good PR is made from lies, people put more trust in your bad PR.

These "boycotts" get unnoticed because nobody is willing to report honestly why these games are shit. Don't be surprised when 10/10 games kill their own studios.

This has been going on for years, but publishers tried to patch it up with more paid shilling. When gaming press lost their contact with their audience, so did the publishers. The only way to reach the publishers now is to kill the middleman.